Dark Matter (Firefly ripoff?)

[Lindley]

I just started watching Dark Matter on Netflix and it's pretty decent so far but it seems to me like it's almost a Firefly reboot. Anyone else watch it?

Put a bunch of mercenaries together on a spaceship, and it's automatically a ripoff of a short-lived television series watched by a total of 15 people over a decade ago...

I swear to God, sci-fi fans shouldn't be allowed on the Internet.

Myself included.

Let's be clear: Firefly has a huge following after the fact. Possibly not enough to make it commercially viable, but if you google "top 10 shows that shouldn't have been cancelled", I promise you Firefly will have a place on most of the lists that come up.

 

[JD]

I just started watching Dark Matter on Netflix and it's pretty decent so far but it seems to me like it's almost a Firefly reboot. Anyone else watch it?

Dude, everything SyFy makes these days is a Firefly derivative in some manner. Dark Matter, Killjoys, Defiance, The Expanse, they all share common elements with Firefly.

And no, I'm not holding Firefly up on a pedestal as some sort of ultimate original masterpiece. And of the shows I mentioned, I actually like Defiance and enjoyed The Expanse novels enough to look forward to the show.

How are Defiance and The Expanse like Firefly? Defiance is an Earth based show with aliens that didn't even involve space until the most recent season. I haven't read The Expanse books or seen the show yet, but nothing I've seen or heard about either of them seem at all like Firefly. It's a show based on Earth and our solar system dealing with an investigation into a missing girl and conflict between Earth and colonists in other parts of the solar system.

 

[Mach5]

Let's be clear: Firefly has a huge following after the fact. Possibly not enough to make it commercially viable, but if you google "top 10 shows that shouldn't have been cancelled", I promise you Firefly will have a place on most of the lists that come up.

Let's be clear: No one outside the nerd culture gives a fuck.

In fact, most of the nerd culture doesn't give a fuck either.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

We never really knew the full extent or intent of the Alliance, but we do know they created a Pax drug to make people docile and do what the government wanted and created a psychic super weapon that clearly had no good intents, so much so that even thinking the names of secret government operatives in her presance ended up bringing out a secret government muderous operative. And they were willing to extend an entire fleet to destroy Firefly.

Oh, I'm not denying that the Alliance is involved in shady black-ops from time to time. But they are not a flat-out fascist dictatorship like the Terran Federation (or the Galactic Empire from SW).

(Besides, everything we see in FF is told from the point of view of Browncoats, and so the perception of the Alliance that we see is likely to be rather skewed anyway.)

Look at it this way: What would a Trek series told from the POV of the Maquis look like? You ask the typical Maquis what they think of the Federation, they're not likely to say very nice things. Same story here.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Isn't Firefly a ripoff of Blake's Seven?

No.

I'm pretty sure anytime you put a small diverse group of people on a ship it's a ripoff of Blake's Seven*. Even if it was made before Blake's Seven.


*Replace with your show of choice if needed

 

[Greg Cox]

I'm pretty ambivalent about Dark Matter in general, but I wouldn't call it a Firefly rip-off exactly. Any similarities are pretty much just superficial and since the show itself is so highly derivative and clichéd you could probably draw comparisons to any number of vaguely similar properties.

Firefly, Blake's 7, Cowboy Beebop, Outlaw Star all feature a rag-tag group of outlaws on a spaceship, flying about at the fringes of society, making ends meet and fighting The Man. And that's just in sci-fi.

You can probably also throw Farscape into the mix. A motley band of criminals and fugitives (and, okay, one misplaced astronaut) trying to survive while being pursued by authoritarian Peacekeepers . ...

Heck, Han Solo was a disreputable space smuggler trying to make a living while steering clear of the Empire. And then there are the Starjammers in Marvel Comics, who have been around since the seventies or so.

Shady starship crews engaged in less than legal activities were a sci-fi cliche long before Firefly . . ..

 

[Lindley]

Let's be clear: Firefly has a huge following after the fact. Possibly not enough to make it commercially viable, but if you google "top 10 shows that shouldn't have been cancelled", I promise you Firefly will have a place on most of the lists that come up.

Let's be clear: No one outside the nerd culture gives a fuck.

In fact, most of the nerd culture doesn't give a fuck either.

Agree on the first point, although "nerd culture" is becoming increasingly mainstream these days for various reasons.

On the second point, possibly. While I suspect Firefly's fans may not represent a majority of "nerd culture," I think they do represent a decent-sized plurality. Go into any given conference room at a tech company and ask who's seen Firefly. Someone will have.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

Gilligan's Island is a rip off of Blake's Seven. Think about it.



Or don't.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Jason and the Argonauts is a ripoff off Blake's Seven

 

[The Wormhole]

I just started watching Dark Matter on Netflix and it's pretty decent so far but it seems to me like it's almost a Firefly reboot. Anyone else watch it?

Dude, everything SyFy makes these days is a Firefly derivative in some manner. Dark Matter, Killjoys, Defiance, The Expanse, they all share common elements with Firefly.

And no, I'm not holding Firefly up on a pedestal as some sort of ultimate original masterpiece. And of the shows I mentioned, I actually like Defiance and enjoyed The Expanse novels enough to look forward to the show.

How are Defiance and The Expanse like Firefly? Defiance is an Earth based show with aliens that didn't even involve space until the most recent season. I haven't read The Expanse books or seen the show yet, but nothing I've seen or heard about either of them seem at all like Firefly. It's a show based on Earth and our solar system dealing with an investigation into a missing girl and conflict between Earth and colonists in other parts of the solar system.

With Defiance it's a bunch of little things. Nolan is basically Malcolm Reynolds, former soldier in a historic war now turned lovable rogue trying to make a living. The town of Defiance is named after the final battle in that war. E-Rep is very similar to the Alliance. Prostitution is legal. And really, the whole Western thing they got going on.

The Expanse is a bit more obvious, at least in the novels. I should probably spoiler code this, since some of this is likely to come up in the show.

Spoiler: The Expanse's Firefly connections

It basically focuses on a ship crewed by lovable rogues. The captain, has enough smarts about what life is really like to make it in the shady world they live in but has a streak of nobility in him. The real loyal black female first officer (though here, she and the captain are romantically involved). The wisecracking sarcastic pilot. The muscle who can and will kick anyone's ass. Then there's the Martian Space Navy, who actually fly around in ships shaped like office buildings. Corrupt corporations conducting experiments on humans, which in some cases results in zombies. Honestly, the whole thing comes off as an alternate Firefly at times.

 

[Reverend]

^Nolan is *not* basically Malcolm Reynolds. He's basically Han Solo (Berlin even called him out on it on the show.) The only reason Nolan seems like Reynolds at times is that Solo was also the core inspirations for Mal and Nathan Fillion made no bones about emulating Harrison Ford (though not full on imitating.)

I'm pretty ambivalent about Dark Matter in general, but I wouldn't call it a Firefly rip-off exactly. Any similarities are pretty much just superficial and since the show itself is so highly derivative and clichéd you could probably draw comparisons to any number of vaguely similar properties.

Firefly, Blake's 7, Cowboy Beebop, Outlaw Star all feature a rag-tag group of outlaws on a spaceship, flying about at the fringes of society, making ends meet and fighting The Man. And that's just in sci-fi.

You can probably also throw Farscape into the mix. A motley band of criminals and fugitives (and, okay, one misplaced astronaut) trying to survive while being pursued by authoritarian Peacekeepers . ...

Heck, Han Solo was a disreputable space smuggler trying to make a living while steering clear of the Empire. And then there are the Starjammers in Marvel Comics, who have been around since the seventies or so.

Shady starship crews engaged in less than legal activities were a sci-fi cliche long before Firefly . . ..

I don't know why I blanked out Farscape when I was trying to think of examples. Indeed, I remember when Farscape was still on people were complaining it was a 'Blake's 7' rip-off or a 'Buck Rogers' rip-off. I can only conclude a lot of people don't understand the distinction between "rip-off" and "similar thing that came later" or "partially inspired by a thing".

Hell, there are still people that claim that Star Wars is a rip-off of 'Dune' or 'Hidden Fortress'.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

How are Defiance and The Expanse like Firefly? Defiance is an Earth based show with aliens that didn't even involve space until the most recent season. I haven't read The Expanse books or seen the show yet, but nothing I've seen or heard about either of them seem at all like Firefly. It's a show based on Earth and our solar system dealing with an investigation into a missing girl and conflict between Earth and colonists in other parts of the solar system.

That description sounds a lot like Firefly, actually. The fact that it's OUR solar system instead of a fictional solar system really isn't much of a change at all. And, of course, on Firefly the missing girl (River) has already been recovered when the show starts (but the mystery of what happened to her is still a huge driving force). And conflict between Earth (the Alliance) and colonists farther out in the solar system (the independents) is a very obvious similarity, as well.

Let's be clear: No one outside the nerd culture gives a fuck.

In fact, most of the nerd culture doesn't give a fuck either.

Let's be clear: No matter how many fucks anyone gives, it doesn't make your characterization of Firefly as a 'show that 15 people saw over a decade ago' even remotely accurate. This isn't Crime Traveller or Perversions of Science we're talking about here. The fact that the name Firefly is even still remembered 12 years after being cancelled halfway through its first season is obvious proof that it isn't some completely irrelevant show with only a handful of real fans.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I tried to, dear god I tried to watch Perversions of Science about a month ago.

The Jason Lee episode playing a Martian on Earth during the Orson Wells broadcast of War of the Worlds, wondering why none of his buddies told him that the invasion was about to start, is still hilarious.

Every other episode was dog shit.

Crime Traveller starts off painfully, but I always get a little angry when I run out of episodes during a rewatch at the end of the dvd. I shake my fist at Britain in the past and everything.

 

[Mach5]

Let's be clear: No one outside the nerd culture gives a fuck.

In fact, most of the nerd culture doesn't give a fuck either.

Let's be clear: No matter how many fucks anyone gives, it doesn't make your characterization of Firefly as a 'show that 15 people saw over a decade ago' even remotely accurate. This isn't Crime Traveller or Perversions of Science we're talking about here. The fact that the name Firefly is even still remembered 12 years after being cancelled halfway through its first season is obvious proof that it isn't some completely irrelevant show with only a handful of real fans.

No one called it irrelevant. It's just nowhere near as relevant as fanboys present it. If it were, Serenity wouldn't have bombed so hard at the box-office.

 

[Forbin]

Let's be clear: I'm sick of the phrase "Let's be clear."

 

[Mach5]

Let's be clear: I'm sick of the phrase "Let's be clear."

Yet you're the only one in this thread who used it more than once.

 

[sojourner]

Reverend said:

Hell, there are still people that claim that Star Wars is a rip-off of 'Dune' or 'Hidden Fortress'.

Have you seen Hidden Fortress? Parts of that movie are beat for beat with parts of A New Hope. Rip-off? wouldn't go that far, but it is definitely heavily influenced.

 

[Mach5]

Reverend said:

Hell, there are still people that claim that Star Wars is a rip-off of 'Dune' or 'Hidden Fortress'.

Have you seen Hidden Fortress? Parts of that movie are beat for beat with parts of A New Hope. Rip-off? wouldn't go that far, but it is definitely heavily influenced.

It's a deliberate homage. Lucas practically worshiped Kurosawa.

 

[Forbin]

Let's be clear: I'm sick of the phrase "Let's be clear."

Yet you're the only one in this thread who used it more than once.

It's a fair cop.

 

[JD]

Dude, everything SyFy makes these days is a Firefly derivative in some manner. Dark Matter, Killjoys, Defiance, The Expanse, they all share common elements with Firefly.

And no, I'm not holding Firefly up on a pedestal as some sort of ultimate original masterpiece. And of the shows I mentioned, I actually like Defiance and enjoyed The Expanse novels enough to look forward to the show.

How are Defiance and The Expanse like Firefly? Defiance is an Earth based show with aliens that didn't even involve space until the most recent season. I haven't read The Expanse books or seen the show yet, but nothing I've seen or heard about either of them seem at all like Firefly. It's a show based on Earth and our solar system dealing with an investigation into a missing girl and conflict between Earth and colonists in other parts of the solar system.

With Defiance it's a bunch of little things. Nolan is basically Malcolm Reynolds, former soldier in a historic war now turned lovable rogue trying to make a living. The town of Defiance is named after the final battle in that war. E-Rep is very similar to the Alliance. Prostitution is legal. And really, the whole Western thing they got going on.

The Expanse is a bit more obvious, at least in the novels. I should probably spoiler code this, since some of this is likely to come up in the show.

Spoiler: The Expanse's Firefly connections

It basically focuses on a ship crewed by lovable rogues. The captain, has enough smarts about what life is really like to make it in the shady world they live in but has a streak of nobility in him. The real loyal black female first officer (though here, she and the captain are romantically involved). The wisecracking sarcastic pilot. The muscle who can and will kick anyone's ass. Then there's the Martian Space Navy, who actually fly around in ships shaped like office buildings. Corrupt corporations conducting experiments on humans, which in some cases results in zombies. Honestly, the whole thing comes off as an alternate Firefly at times.

Oh, I wasn't aware of any of that. But really none of that originated with Firefly. Even thought Firefly is great, a lot of the stuff you mention in the spoilers had been done before in other things.