Axanar dropped a plot spoiler about a month ago

[Maurice]

No one has to accept my opinion re "thin-skinned". Anyone can read Alec's old posts on this very board and decide for themselves.

 

[Campe]

I'm just amused by the fact that the production team uses their production to take pock shots at Abrams films and all the "true Trek" stuff that grates at me.

And that is what gets me with a very vocal representation of Axanar die-hards. (Admittedly, not as much on TrekBBS as other sites.). It does seem to start with Alec though.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

 

[Jedi_Master]

Kudos to Tom for taking a whole bunch of hits in the nether regions and still moving. His production has been savaged and he hasn't gone nuclear.

I have not seen a single Axanar production member that has exercised that level of restraint - quite the opposite. I recognize that the way the Internet fundraising can skew the relationship between "investor" and "business" to the point that some dude who gave $10 thinks he is entitled and can dictate a production. I recognize that people can occasionally take pot shots based on a simple desire to troll.

But lets get real here folks: Axanar has become a wedge, and the minds behind it are not sweet little innocent lambs who through their blood sweat and years are delivering a labor of love.
The core production team has seized an opportunity. They recognize the fact that there is a vocal minority of Trek fans who for a variety of reasons are virulently opposed to nuTrek. These fans are determined and prolific and have fallen fully behind Axanar. They want Axanar to be a salvation, a renaissance, a deliverance. They faithfully promote and defend a production that has been slow to deliver, slow to interact with its donors, slow to do much more than count the dollars and set new and changing goals.

In my mind this feels like exploitation. The Axanar team are intelligent enough to know and bold enough to state that this film is NOT the future of Trek but rather their crowd funded audition tape. Yet they use weasel words and carefully parsed statements to string their most loyal fans along, feeding them hints and more hints that this project just might be something that saves "True Trek" and restores Gene's vision.
That's concentrated horseshit.
This project is a crowd funded career builder for a few people built on the intellectual property of CBS and fueled in part by people whose delusions are not dispelled but fed, nurtured and maintained by the core production team of Axanar who time and again have fostered an "us versus them" attitude and portrayed themselves as innocent victims of the heartless Internet horde.
Screw that noise.
"Man up" and be honest. CBS will never accept Axanar as anything but a vanity project. Axanar is NOT special, first, unique, or even finished! It has ignored the bulk of its donors while relying on the sheer numbers of YouTube views and donations to prove that it is "legit".
At the same time it has been quietly building a career for a few and allowing the delusions of some fans to generate good press and even more donations.

I am tired of the Axanar team manipulating the ill will of a few fans toward nuTrek to build a business that will NEVER deliver anything more than "gee whiz" fan productions and in my opinion will serve more as a income generator for the creators when they throw open the doors of their "studio" to every Tomalak, Diq, and Admiral Harry that wants to make their own sciFi film.

It's tiresome and annoying and I am truly disgusted at this point.

 

[Karzak]

I'm wondering how much longer this thread will be open. Of course the majority of the action is Axanar/Peters/ect bashing, so it may stay open for quite awhile.

Reporting/repeating the truth of the comments and behavior of Peters here and elsewhere does not constitute "Axanar/Peters/etc bashing."

Peters is renowned for his poor track record for interacting with anyone who dares to criticize him and his thin skin when faced with that criticism.

Saying so is not tantamount to "bashing." Suggesting it is so is not only conversationally lazy, but misguided and misrepresentative of the overall narrative about how this production has conducted itself since its inception.

I see no reason why discussing that bad behavior of the person spearheading the project should be off limits to anyone who wants to discuss or know the truth of it.

 

[Karzak]

I'm just amused by the fact that the production team uses their production to take pock shots at Abrams films and all the "true Trek" stuff that grates at me.

And that is what gets me with a very vocal representation of Axanar die-hards. (Admittedly, not as much on TrekBBS as other sites.). It does seem to start with Alec though.

Indeed. Peters definitely sets the tone, and Burnett is absolutely on board with it. But the near-fanatical blind acceptance of whatever it is the Axanar group is doing by the fandom is astounding to witness.

If ever there were an example of bread and circuses...

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

I have not seen a single Axanar production member that has exercised that level of restraint - quite the opposite. I recognize that the way the Internet fundraising can skew the relationship between "investor" and "business" to the point that some dude who gave $10 thinks he is entitled and can dictate a production. I recognize that people can occasionally take pot shots based on a simple desire to troll.

.

Let me be clear, I don't think I can dictate production, I understand that budgets blow up, I understand that sending out perks to donors takes time, however, what I will do as a donor is demand accountability from people who took my money, Just as I would complain at outback if my Mid Rare sirloin is well done.

Unfortunately the Axanar team can't give me the movie, or the .pdf of the script, and I think I am entitled to a better explanation (I think all donors are entitled to ) an explanation better than, "It's just the way it is, when it comes out its gonna be great!"

 

[fireproof78]

I'm just amused by the fact that the production team uses their production to take pock shots at Abrams films and all the "true Trek" stuff that grates at me.

And that is what gets me with a very vocal representation of Axanar die-hards. (Admittedly, not as much on TrekBBS as other sites.). It does seem to start with Alec though.

I think it goes a little bit back and forth. I'll not discount their opinions on JJ-Trek because that is their right. Not problem their.

It just feels like this production is giving them more license to bash and that being anti-JJ is the impetus to create Axanar.

Before the defenders tell me how wrong I am, I am well aware that this is as much a passion project for this team and that they want to do this project justice. But, it sometimes feels to me that it is used to knock other productions, including official ones. Except for terry whom I rather enjoyed his responses.

Just my impression.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

My advice to them is to just weather the comments, respond rationally and try to leave emotion off the table. Well, that's my advice for any production, fan or otherwise.

Which is what Terry I think did most excellently, until he got chased away by some of the people of this board.

(sorry for not using multiquote)

Terry took a very derisive and defensive tone at times in his interactions here, even going so far as demanding that the community vote on whether it wanted his involvement on the board and continually trying to force the issue.

The real question to me, as with anything that I choose do, is if it's a good investment of my time. Do I want to be here specifically? I'm indifferent and neither for or against it. That's why I'm asking if folks want me to participate or not. I'm not asking to be passive-agressive. I'm asking because if it's a distraction then I have a list of other things that I could be doing with the time. So... (source: http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=11229229&postcount=2948)

Once the previous thread was closed and the new campaign ended, he has yet to come back into the community and participate.

Say what you will about Peters, at least he was a participant of the TrekBBS community before Axanar rather than someone who came in only to reassure a potential donor base.

And I agree Tom has been a real trooper with the reaction here to Renegades. I understand how hard it is to separate yourself from the work and he's been quite measured in every interaction.

 

[Karzak]

Kudos to Tom for taking a whole bunch of hits in the nether regions and still moving. His production has been savaged and he hasn't gone nuclear.

I have not seen a single Axanar production member that has exercised that level of restraint - quite the opposite. I recognize that the way the Internet fundraising can skew the relationship between "investor" and "business" to the point that some dude who gave $10 thinks he is entitled and can dictate a production. I recognize that people can occasionally take pot shots based on a simple desire to troll.

But lets get real here folks: Axanar has become a wedge, and the minds behind it are not sweet little innocent lambs who through their blood sweat and years are delivering a labor of love.
The core production team has seized an opportunity. They recognize the fact that there is a vocal minority of Trek fans who for a variety of reasons are virulently opposed to nuTrek. These fans are determined and prolific and have fallen fully behind Axanar. They want Axanar to be a salvation, a renaissance, a deliverance. They faithfully promote and defend a production that has been slow to deliver, slow to interact with its donors, slow to do much more than count the dollars and set new and changing goals.

In my mind this feels like exploitation. The Axanar team are intelligent enough to know and bold enough to state that this film is NOT the future of Trek but rather their crowd funded audition tape. Yet they use weasel words and carefully parsed statements to string their most loyal fans along, feeding them hints and more hints that this project just might be something that saves "True Trek" and restores Gene's vision.
That's concentrated horseshit.
This project is a crowd funded career builder for a few people built on the intellectual property of CBS and fueled in part by people whose delusions are not dispelled but fed, nurtured and maintained by the core production team of Axanar who time and again have fostered an "us versus them" attitude and portrayed themselves as innocent victims of the heartless Internet horde.
Screw that noise.
"Man up" and be honest. CBS will never accept Axanar as anything but a vanity project. Axanar is NOT special, first, unique, or even finished! It has ignored the bulk of its donors while relying on the sheer numbers of YouTube views and donations to prove that it is "legit".
At the same time it has been quietly building a career for a few and allowing the delusions of some fans to generate good press and even more donations.

I am tired of the Axanar team manipulating the ill will of a few fans toward nuTrek to build a business that will NEVER deliver anything more than "gee whiz" fan productions and in my opinion will serve more as a income generator for the creators when they throw open the doors of their "studio" to every Tomalak, Diq, and Admiral Harry that wants to make their own sciFi film.

It's tiresome and annoying and I am truly disgusted at this point.

THIS.

Re-sharing because its the last post on the previous page and others will, (as I did) miss it, despite how perfectly it illuminates every concern I have with this production.

 

[Tosk]

Kudos to Tom for taking a whole bunch of hits in the nether regions and still moving. His production has been savaged and he hasn't gone nuclear.

I have not seen a single Axanar production member that has exercised that level of restraint - quite the opposite.

That seems a bit unfair. Other than Alec and Robert, who from the Axanar team have you seen "go nuclear"? (I would argue that neither of them have done that either, but for the sake of argument...)

 

[Trekkin]

I admit that I'm fairly new to the whole Axanar 'thing'. I only became aware of it around Christmas last year, and certainly haven't been waiting for it for years on end. But the people who are invested in this (not necessarily 'financially') have to see what it looks like from the outside looking in - multiple broken promises and requests for more cash.

I'm not saying things are going to turn out to be a con or a disaster. I hope for the best, and did send them about 15$. But surely people can see why others are starting to get frustrated or leery?

And of course they talk about their concerns - we do that when Paramount pushes a release back by a few weeks, and in that case we usually know that a movie has at least been completed and we don't hand over any money until we actually see it.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Kudos to Tom for taking a whole bunch of hits in the nether regions and still moving. His production has been savaged and he hasn't gone nuclear.

I have not seen a single Axanar production member that has exercised that level of restraint - quite the opposite.

That seems a bit unfair. Other than Alec and Robert, who from the Axanar team have you seen "go nuclear"? (I would argue that neither of them have done that either, but for the sake of argument...)

Terry scorched me last year when I asked for an update about donor group invites when I saw something (about the donor group) on my newsfeed....

 

[Jedi_Master]

You may have misunderstood my point Tosk. I have not personally observed a nuclear explosion from a member of the Axanar team, however they have gotten testy very quickly - both here and other places and they have not had to endure the rather intense savagery bestowed on Renegades.
My point was that "thin skinned" is a reasonable label to apply, and it seems even more reasonable in light of Tom's calm response to justified and unjustified criticism.

 

[Tosk]

Fair enough, I understand your point now.

 

[Melakon]

How about spending less time on podcasts and more time on making the movie?

Of course if they did this, the line would be: "Man, those Axanar guys are full of themselves. They can't even be bothered to communicate with their donors. How hard would it be to set up a regular podcast?"

Podcasts are sort of useless for any fans who are deaf.

 

[BigJake]

^ I wonder if they provide transcripts. Which of course would be of little use for the blind, so hopefully also in Braille? So as to be sufficiently "responsive to the donors."

But then why are they expending resources on Braille transcripts instead of making the movie? Huh? And if they're not providing them, why are they excluding blind fans? Huh? It can all become a bit of a Catch-22, can't it.

I'm pleased to see J_M ripping the bandaid off for some "real talk" up there. By all means let's have at it. Bit late for me but I'll pop back in come the morning.

 

[Xaios]

Glad I didn't find out about the Axanar kickstarter until after it finished. I actually highly enjoyed Prelude (I guess I'm one of those rare folks that liked it AND NuTrek), but it does seem like the production is fraught with unforeseen difficulties. Thankfully I have no horses in this race. If they deliver the goods, then I get a quality piece of a fan production. If not, I haven't lost anything.

 

[Campe]

I'm just amused by the fact that the production team uses their production to take pock shots at Abrams films and all the "true Trek" stuff that grates at me.

And that is what gets me with a very vocal representation of Axanar die-hards. (Admittedly, not as much on TrekBBS as other sites.). It does seem to start with Alec though.

I think it goes a little bit back and forth. I'll not discount their opinions on JJ-Trek because that is their right. Not problem their.

It just feels like this production is giving them more license to bash and that being anti-JJ is the impetus to create Axanar.

Absolutely it's their right to dislike any aspect of anything they don't want to. But it's the method of doing it. And while Alec and Rob may be... somewhat?... diplomatic?... in their disdain, there are others who take that nugget, spin it on its head and turn it into completely ridiculous criticisms on repeat about the new films about Dyson hand dryers and price scanners being used on the set. If that bothers a fan, that's fine. But make the point and be done with it. Don't bring it up in every single argument about JJ's films. Plus, ya know, floppy disc drives were on the Borg cube, so... boo ya. Sorry. I focus on this more than I need to. Just ignore my ranting in that regard.

But I do find it interesting as this particular individual has some sort of a connection to Axanar outside of just supporting it with funds and treats it as the second coming. And much of what I heard from Rob and Alec, I hear echoed in this guy. Maybe it is a back and forth. But I think it was Rob, made a comment in the podcast that really bugged me. He said they were "the alpha and omega" of Trek fandom. So, fandom begins and ends with them? What gives them the right to be able to make such a claim? It may be a back and forth, but they're playing into this when they frankly should be much more humble. People like that should not be allowed soapboxes to speak from.

Before the defenders tell me how wrong I am, I am well aware that this is as much a passion project for this team and that they want to do this project justice. But, it sometimes feels to me that it is used to knock other productions, including official ones. Except for terry whom I rather enjoyed his responses.

Just my impression.

Agreed.

But lets get real here folks: Axanar has become a wedge, and the minds behind it are not sweet little innocent lambs who through their blood sweat and years are delivering a labor of love.
The core production team has seized an opportunity. They recognize the fact that there is a vocal minority of Trek fans who for a variety of reasons are virulently opposed to nuTrek. These fans are determined and prolific and have fallen fully behind Axanar. They want Axanar to be a salvation, a renaissance, a deliverance. They faithfully promote and defend a production that has been slow to deliver, slow to interact with its donors, slow to do much more than count the dollars and set new and changing goals.

In my mind this feels like exploitation. The Axanar team are intelligent enough to know and bold enough to state that this film is NOT the future of Trek but rather their crowd funded audition tape. Yet they use weasel words and carefully parsed statements to string their most loyal fans along, feeding them hints and more hints that this project just might be something that saves "True Trek" and restores Gene's vision.
That's concentrated horseshit.
This project is a crowd funded career builder for a few people built on the intellectual property of CBS and fueled in part by people whose delusions are not dispelled but fed, nurtured and maintained by the core production team of Axanar who time and again have fostered an "us versus them" attitude and portrayed themselves as innocent victims of the heartless Internet horde.
Screw that noise.
"Man up" and be honest. CBS will never accept Axanar as anything but a vanity project. Axanar is NOT special, first, unique, or even finished! It has ignored the bulk of its donors while relying on the sheer numbers of YouTube views and donations to prove that it is "legit".
At the same time it has been quietly building a career for a few and allowing the delusions of some fans to generate good press and even more donations.

I am tired of the Axanar team manipulating the ill will of a few fans toward nuTrek to build a business that will NEVER deliver anything more than "gee whiz" fan productions and in my opinion will serve more as a income generator for the creators when they throw open the doors of their "studio" to every Tomalak, Diq, and Admiral Harry that wants to make their own sciFi film.

It's tiresome and annoying and I am truly disgusted at this point.

Now I can't believe I'm saying this, but one thing that I did glean from the podcast yesterday was that they don't believe that Axanar is the second coming. They are honest and forthright about it being a career stepping stone. That was definitely what I got out of it, but when I see comments from Axanar supporters saying "Axanar is the original timeline movie that Gene and the fans deserve for the 50th. It is a creation of love, and it is Real Star Trek!" and when Alec Peters himself pulls a fan back to Earth who claims that CBS has quietly given Axanar its blessing, and the fan retorts that it's implied by not issuing a cease & desist, yeah, it really makes me question the sanity of some of these Axanar fans.

So, maybe while Rob and Alec don't try to perpetuate these comments from the Axanar religious nuts, they don't do a particularly good job to stop it either. That, I believe is the real issue here.

And ultimately, what I'm worried about is the backlash IF CBS does pull the plug on Axanar. These people are in so deep, they may do something stupid. Maybe I'm being dramatic, but that's the mindset I see from these people.

ETA: Also, if they think a million views of Prelude over a year is anything to sneeze at, well, I just have to laugh. I mean, they compared it to Hannibal, saying that show wasn't pulling in a million viewers on a weekly basis. I'm not sure how YouTube works if it only picks up individual viewers or if it counts each viewer each time but that's something to take into consideration before they brag on that point.

 

[Tom]

IF[/B] CBS does pull the plug on Axanar. These people are in so deep, they may do something stupid. Maybe I'm being dramatic, but that's the mindset I see from these people.

An interesting hypothetical question would be 'IF' CBS pulled the plug, would Alec have to give the money back to the donors? Only for Axanar not for Prelude since that's a finished product. My guess would be that if CBS tells them they can't do the film. Alec would try to turn Axanar into a non-Star Trek project and try to convince the donors to let him keep the money for that. Either way, it would be a shit storm.