Star Trek: Renegades
- Thread starter Danlav05
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When we talk about clunky story telling, this is a perfect example of what we are talking about.
If your going to address it, the new bridge should be more than just a dropped line, but rather part of the story... but that doesn't mean you have to address it....
If your going to address it, the new bridge should be more than just a dropped line, but rather part of the story... but that doesn't mean you have to address it....
Wasn't he planing to blow the Gorn straight to hell in Arena the moment he caught up with them, and only backed off after the Metrons intervened and he got the Gorn's side of the story?
Agreed. Pointing out things like that within the narrative usually feels clunky at best. Trek almost never calls out changes like that (maybe 1 out of 100?), so why start now?
True TOS changed the uniforms, most of the cast, and Sulu's job between the 2nd pilot and the regular series and didn't bother to mention it.
A
Amaris
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Yes, but that was after the Gorn had already destroyed a Federation base and killed innocent people. Kirk wouldn't show up, see a potential enemy who had yet to do anything, fire at them, and then become indignant when they fired back.
Wasn't he planing to blow the Gorn straight to hell in Arena the moment he caught up with them, and only backed off after the Metrons intervened and he got the Gorn's side of the story?
Agreed. Pointing out things like that within the narrative usually feels clunky at best. Trek almost never calls out changes like that (maybe 1 out of 100?), so why start now?
True TOS changed the uniforms, most of the cast, and Sulu's job between the 2nd pilot and the regular series and didn't bother to mention it.
Notice, too, that Kirk refused to kill the Gorn. That wasn't the Metrons intervening there, but Kirk's own moral compass. The Captain of the Archer was a scumbag by comparison.
A nitpick that's a little more on the technical side of things - has any other backer had trouble downloading the 1080p version? No matter what link I try, my copy always ends up unplayable. It might be a consequence of my internet being so slow (thanks to living in the middle of Bumfucknowhere, Australia), so I was double checking.
The YouTube version was fine, but I wanted to see what it looked like on a TV screen.
The YouTube version was fine, but I wanted to see what it looked like on a TV screen.
I'm just saying that is could be an option, if there are radical changes to keep consistency with the first episode. I agree you don't need exposition for everything, its just an option.
@Hela I sent you a PM to help with your issue.
now that would make a great fan film - the Captain is an idiot but always wins at the end because his incompetence is seen as genius.
Captain Idiot: Which one of these controls was the goddam cigarette lighter?
FIRE OFF PHOTONS - HITS CLOAKED SHIP
Admiral Uptight: My god, you've done it again Captain Idiot, your insightful and bold action saved the peace conference!"
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I was never able to get the 1080 version and the links no longer work. C'est la vie I suppose.
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Hurry, Yamato! There are only 90 days left to save Earth!
According to every other Star Trek episode: no. Only the Enterprise can help Earth.
I think I remember several episodes of Red Dwarf with that kind of plotline. Most of them, in fact. Alvarez even reminds me a little bit of Rimmer. A lot, actually...
Hitchcock said something to the effect that a bomb going off is not scary...knowing that a bomb is about to go off is scary.
Worked for Flashman.
It's only good from the thirty plus year old memory from an 8 year old
Alright, I watched it a few hours ago. Here's my assessment:
First, the good:
- Gary Graham and Corin Nemec are clearly both a) having fun and b) putting in some real effort. Kudos to them.
- Some of the CG was remarkably solid.
- The handling of Fixer's origin and true nature as a hologram was handled surprisingly well.
- The makeup on the Syphon guys was solid. It reminded me a lot of General Sarris from Galaxy Quest.
Now, the bad:
- The aforementioned quality performances of Gary Graham and Corin Nemec are hamstrung by poor writing. We know practically nothing about Gary Graham's character aside from the fact that he a) can shapeshift some how, and b) is a misfit for some completely unknown reason (DISCLAIMER: I know that he was in Of Gods And Men, but I couldn't make it through 15 minutes of that, so I don't feel bad in expecting this production to fill in some of the gaps). Captain Alvarez is even worse off, being some hot-headed glory hound who should have never been given command of a ship to begin with.
- While some of the CG is actually quite good (this was generally the pure CG effects shots), a lot of the CG that was blended with sets was pretty bad.
- The rest of the acting ranges from merely serviceable to outright awful.
- The voice narration of the Invictus poem was painful.
- Lexxa's voice seems to be stuck on "gritty determination" mode. It honestly seemed like she couldn't express any emotion other than tortured anguish. Sybok would have a field day with her.
- The script seems to mostly ignore the axiom "show, don't tell." For example, Icheb's and whats-her-face's (cause seriously, her character was so unmemorable that I can't remember her name) exposition dumps are egregious. It's also problematic considering that these characters already know each other. Icheb already knows (but has conveniently forgotten, for our benefit) that the betazoid doesn't have the ability to read his mind, and she would also already be aware of his backstory.
- The alien possessing Grant Imahara's vulcan character is one dumb villain who seems to be intent on sabotaging his actual plan. First he tries to blow up Chekov, because that won't raise any suspicion. Then he tips EVERYONE off to the fact that he's the bad guy by deciding to a) murder Admiral Paris, and b) teleport into Chekov's office to monologue about how "we shall have our revenge!" Apparently the villains are the Sith.
- The mechanics of the portal devices make even less sense than the black holes from ST09 (which is a movie I still highly enjoy in spite of that, so no one gets the wrong idea). Where do the planets go when they disappear? If all the planets are being portal'd somewhere else, why was Syphon portal'd close to the Federation? Why do they apparently need two portal devices? Is there some difference between them? Why did it take so much longer for the portal that would have affected Earth to actually complete it's effect than any of the other planets? Why was the earth no longer receiving sunlight even if it hadn't yet moved? Why do the Syphons think that the Federation sent them the portal device, and how do they even know that a second exists? How did the second portal device get transported off Earth?
- Some of the scenes seem to exist purely for shock value, such as the cut to the lesbian makeout scene and the phaser amputation. If I had to guess, this is to reinforce the "where no Trek has gone before" motto. The problem is that it really doesn't add anything substantive.
- Tuvok playing some spymaster just does not compute.
- We're no closer to understanding what the Rite of Last Kill (I think that's what it's called) is, and considering all the Syphons are now dead (I think), I doubt we ever will.
- The music was onerous.
I think it's fairly obvious that I didn't like it that much. I'm really sorry if anyone feels like I'm crapping on their passion project, but these were all legitimate criticisms that jumped out at me. I'm not saying I could do any better because God knows I can't, but as Tim Allen once proclaimed, it doesn't take a great actor to recognize a bad one. As far as ST fan productions go, it's still better than average, but there's nothing here that elevates it beyond being a fan production.
First, the good:
- Gary Graham and Corin Nemec are clearly both a) having fun and b) putting in some real effort. Kudos to them.
- Some of the CG was remarkably solid.
- The handling of Fixer's origin and true nature as a hologram was handled surprisingly well.
- The makeup on the Syphon guys was solid. It reminded me a lot of General Sarris from Galaxy Quest.
Now, the bad:
- The aforementioned quality performances of Gary Graham and Corin Nemec are hamstrung by poor writing. We know practically nothing about Gary Graham's character aside from the fact that he a) can shapeshift some how, and b) is a misfit for some completely unknown reason (DISCLAIMER: I know that he was in Of Gods And Men, but I couldn't make it through 15 minutes of that, so I don't feel bad in expecting this production to fill in some of the gaps). Captain Alvarez is even worse off, being some hot-headed glory hound who should have never been given command of a ship to begin with.
- While some of the CG is actually quite good (this was generally the pure CG effects shots), a lot of the CG that was blended with sets was pretty bad.
- The rest of the acting ranges from merely serviceable to outright awful.
- The voice narration of the Invictus poem was painful.
- Lexxa's voice seems to be stuck on "gritty determination" mode. It honestly seemed like she couldn't express any emotion other than tortured anguish. Sybok would have a field day with her.
- The script seems to mostly ignore the axiom "show, don't tell." For example, Icheb's and whats-her-face's (cause seriously, her character was so unmemorable that I can't remember her name) exposition dumps are egregious. It's also problematic considering that these characters already know each other. Icheb already knows (but has conveniently forgotten, for our benefit) that the betazoid doesn't have the ability to read his mind, and she would also already be aware of his backstory.
- The alien possessing Grant Imahara's vulcan character is one dumb villain who seems to be intent on sabotaging his actual plan. First he tries to blow up Chekov, because that won't raise any suspicion. Then he tips EVERYONE off to the fact that he's the bad guy by deciding to a) murder Admiral Paris, and b) teleport into Chekov's office to monologue about how "we shall have our revenge!" Apparently the villains are the Sith.
- The mechanics of the portal devices make even less sense than the black holes from ST09 (which is a movie I still highly enjoy in spite of that, so no one gets the wrong idea). Where do the planets go when they disappear? If all the planets are being portal'd somewhere else, why was Syphon portal'd close to the Federation? Why do they apparently need two portal devices? Is there some difference between them? Why did it take so much longer for the portal that would have affected Earth to actually complete it's effect than any of the other planets? Why was the earth no longer receiving sunlight even if it hadn't yet moved? Why do the Syphons think that the Federation sent them the portal device, and how do they even know that a second exists? How did the second portal device get transported off Earth?
- Some of the scenes seem to exist purely for shock value, such as the cut to the lesbian makeout scene and the phaser amputation. If I had to guess, this is to reinforce the "where no Trek has gone before" motto. The problem is that it really doesn't add anything substantive.
- Tuvok playing some spymaster just does not compute.
- We're no closer to understanding what the Rite of Last Kill (I think that's what it's called) is, and considering all the Syphons are now dead (I think), I doubt we ever will.
- The music was onerous.
I think it's fairly obvious that I didn't like it that much. I'm really sorry if anyone feels like I'm crapping on their passion project, but these were all legitimate criticisms that jumped out at me. I'm not saying I could do any better because God knows I can't, but as Tim Allen once proclaimed, it doesn't take a great actor to recognize a bad one. As far as ST fan productions go, it's still better than average, but there's nothing here that elevates it beyond being a fan production.
Okay, gave it another look this afternoon.
If we're still talking constructive criticism, maybe it would be a good idea for the next story to cut back on on the number of characters. Have a bottle episode just focusing on one of the locations so we can actually get a feel for the people we're meant to be invested in. How they relate to each other, what their personal strengths and weaknesses are, that sort of thing.
It really depends on what Renegades is aiming to be. Is it trying to be like Modern Trek, where it was (or meant to be) an ensemble? Or closer to TOS, where you had a few leads and a bunch of supporting players? If it's the former, they might want to look at how TNG, DS9 etc were structured. Look at episodes (or even stuff from elsewhere) close to what they want to do and try to work out why they worked. If it's the latter, they need to pick who theyre focusing on and stick to following them. Instead of simply following rhe action, follow the characters and make them go to the action/action go to them.
But - to quote somone else who tends to yabber a little too much about Star Trek - I'm just a viewer with an opinion. And I've certainly never managed to make a movie.
If we're still talking constructive criticism, maybe it would be a good idea for the next story to cut back on on the number of characters. Have a bottle episode just focusing on one of the locations so we can actually get a feel for the people we're meant to be invested in. How they relate to each other, what their personal strengths and weaknesses are, that sort of thing.
It really depends on what Renegades is aiming to be. Is it trying to be like Modern Trek, where it was (or meant to be) an ensemble? Or closer to TOS, where you had a few leads and a bunch of supporting players? If it's the former, they might want to look at how TNG, DS9 etc were structured. Look at episodes (or even stuff from elsewhere) close to what they want to do and try to work out why they worked. If it's the latter, they need to pick who theyre focusing on and stick to following them. Instead of simply following rhe action, follow the characters and make them go to the action/action go to them.
But - to quote somone else who tends to yabber a little too much about Star Trek - I'm just a viewer with an opinion. And I've certainly never managed to make a movie.
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