Star Trek: Renegades

[CorporalCaptain]

I like having Tuvok played by Russ and Chekov played by Koenig, but simply to have them isn't enough.

If they're just window dressing or essentially there as a draw, then I find it to be a liability.

On the other hand, "To Serve All My Days" is an example of a brilliant use of Koenig's Chekov.

These are well-established characters, so there should be plenty of opportunities for them to do interesting things that resonate with who they are. The grandfather/granddaughter relationship has potential, but how does that mesh with the idea of the use of renegades in Federation security?

 

[Tom]

Constructive criticism is always good. Before the STR was even released I knew what parts people were going to rip on. Could some of those items been fixed, possibly, but it would have added even more time to get the film done and more cost. The important thing is we seek to improve in certain areas (God, I sound like the fricken Borg queen LOL). The film is fun for many Star Trek fans, its the hard core fans (like all of us!) they will rip things apart and over analyze everything.

Our Youtube stats for to the first week of the film is 268K views with 5338 thumbs up, and 278 thumbs down. That's pretty positive to me.

 

[Trekkin]

Hey, at least no one of this board has started nitpicking the warp speeds.

I think.

 

[Tom]

Hey, at least no one of this board has started nitpicking the warp speeds.

I think.

LOL, We actually had a hot debate over that scene during editing. The issue was the Icarus (and the Archer) needed to get to Earth while at the same time Lexxa and the others were prisoners on Syphon. We had Fixer who was off the ship and presumably on the planet at that point.

We thought of using the portal somehow, that the 2 ships would get trapped in a energy wave that would have instantly sent them to Earth or something along those lines.

We went with the simpler solution, we had the Icarus go at high warp to Earth, then we added VFX scenes of night fall and sunrise on Syphon to show Lexxa and the others were prisoners there for a while (almost a day), we ADR'd Fixer's line to say 'Took you guys long enough to escape' . So the idea being, it took The Icarus and the Archer almost a day to warp back to Earth. Additionally, since we are in 2388 we are not sure how much faster these ships can go since we are 12 years post Voyager.

 

[Campe]

Constructive criticism is always good. Before the STR was even released I knew what parts people were going to rip on. Could some of those items been fixed, possibly, but it would have added even more time to get the film done and more cost. The important thing is we seek to improve in certain areas (God, I sound like the fricken Borg queen LOL). The film is fun for many Star Trek fans, its the hard core fans (like all of us!) they will rip things apart and over analyze everything.

Our Youtube stats for to the first week of the film is 268K views with 5338 thumbs up, and 278 thumbs down. That's pretty positive to me.

Dude, I really respect your taking this criticism so well. Stay classy, Tom!

 

[Tom]

Constructive criticism is always good. Before the STR was even released I knew what parts people were going to rip on. Could some of those items been fixed, possibly, but it would have added even more time to get the film done and more cost. The important thing is we seek to improve in certain areas (God, I sound like the fricken Borg queen LOL). The film is fun for many Star Trek fans, its the hard core fans (like all of us!) they will rip things apart and over analyze everything.

Our Youtube stats for to the first week of the film is 268K views with 5338 thumbs up, and 278 thumbs down. That's pretty positive to me.

Dude, I really respect your taking this criticism so well. Stay classy, Tom!

You know, it could be that I'm clinically insane also... well either way

 

[Trekkin]

Hey, at least no one of this board has started nitpicking the warp speeds.

I think.

LOL, We actually had a hot debate over that scene during editing. The issue was the Icarus (and the Archer) needed to get to Earth while at the same time Lexxa and the others were prisoners on Syphon. We had Fixer who was off the ship and presumably on the planet at that point.

We thought of using the portal somehow, that the 2 ships would get trapped in a energy wave that would have instantly sent them to Earth or something along those lines.

We went with the simpler solution, we had the Icarus go at high warp to Earth, then we added VFX scenes of night fall and sunrise on Syphon to show Lexxa and the others were prisoners there for a while (almost a day), we ADR'd Fixer's line to say 'Took you guys long enough to escape' . So the idea being, it took The Icarus and the Archer almost a day to warp back to Earth. Additionally, since we are in 2388 we are not sure how much faster these ships can go since we are 12 years post Voyager.

I am so tempted to copy and paste this in reply to that YouTube comment I was mocking. But no - that way lies madness and having to get a Google account.

 

[Tosk]

Constructive criticism is always good. Before the STR was even released I knew what parts people were going to rip on. Could some of those items been fixed, possibly, but it would have added even more time to get the film done and more cost. The important thing is we seek to improve in certain areas (God, I sound like the fricken Borg queen LOL). The film is fun for many Star Trek fans, its the hard core fans (like all of us!) they will rip things apart and over analyze everything.

I'm nobody, but these are my humble suggestions for the next episode...(I've stuck to ones that can be very easily or cheaply accomplished. I get the reality of cost vs final product.)

Tighten those uniforms. You don't need new ones, you just need to tailor each one to the individual. Heck, some clothes-pins on the back to hold it tighter would even work so long as they don't turn around.

Disguise Lexxa's chair a bit better. Cut off the adjustment arm and slap a plain black box over the underside that hides the obvious modern day mechanism.

Paint the floor of the Icarus' bridge a darker black. The deeper you can get the black down there, the less it looks like the consoles are all just free-standing on a wooden floor. Most of the interiors on Icarus look pretty damn good, but the last shot of the movie before we cut to the outside looks...less impressive.

Tighter editing. Some of the conversations have a tendency towards "slow reactions" as you cut back and forth between the participants.

The establishing shots of locations were often quite weak, visually. Having fewer of them and upping the effort on the remaining ones would give a better bang for your buck. We don't need to see the exterior every time we come back to a location. (The shots of the harbor were great though. Loved the shot near the end with the boat.)

More character moments. Many of the ones we did get were good, but there are still a lot of characters we learn almost nothing about. Real stuff though, not cliches.

This is meant as constructive criticism, just some stuff that comes to mind. I really did enjoy it for the most part and hope that each installment is better than the last. I didn't donate to the pilot, but I think I just might for the next one.

Final thought...give Gary and Eddie more to do.

 

[Campe]

Constructive criticism is always good. Before the STR was even released I knew what parts people were going to rip on. Could some of those items been fixed, possibly, but it would have added even more time to get the film done and more cost. The important thing is we seek to improve in certain areas (God, I sound like the fricken Borg queen LOL). The film is fun for many Star Trek fans, its the hard core fans (like all of us!) they will rip things apart and over analyze everything.

Our Youtube stats for to the first week of the film is 268K views with 5338 thumbs up, and 278 thumbs down. That's pretty positive to me.

Dude, I really respect your taking this criticism so well. Stay classy, Tom!

You know, it could be that I'm clinically insane also... well either way

Well, you have to be a little crazy to work in any kind of film production.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Constructive criticism is always good. Before the STR was even released I knew what parts people were going to rip on. Could some of those items been fixed, possibly, but it would have added even more time to get the film done and more cost. The important thing is we seek to improve in certain areas (God, I sound like the fricken Borg queen LOL). The film is fun for many Star Trek fans, its the hard core fans (like all of us!) they will rip things apart and over analyze everything.

Our Youtube stats for to the first week of the film is 268K views with 5338 thumbs up, and 278 thumbs down. That's pretty positive to me.

Dude, I really respect your taking this criticism so well. Stay classy, Tom!

You know, it could be that I'm clinically insane also... well either way

Does that mean you guys may take Peters up on his offer to let you guys use Ares Studios to film?

 

[Tom]

Dude, I really respect your taking this criticism so well. Stay classy, Tom!

You know, it could be that I'm clinically insane also... well either way

Does that mean you guys may take Peters up on his offer to let you guys use Ares Studios to film?

Not sure about that, not really my call though. Ideally we would like to have a fixed studio (and of course the sets) to film these episodes. Thing is, there is a degree of sensitivity with this issue since Axanar has asked the fans to fund there studio.

'Ideally' it would be nice for deep pocket investors to invest in the studio (since they can get a return on non-Star trek productions and rent to others) and just ask fans for donations for the episodes only. We know either way, at minimum, for Episode 2 we have to build sets we can store, the following episodes would be a little less since the main sets would already exist. Still, not every episode will be a bottle show there will be other sets and locations.

Tosk, uniforms are going to change and the bridge set will be different, or at the very least upgraded (if we have to go back to Laurel Canyon again).


Bottom line we are still working some of these things out, many are dependant on the funding we can get, and the studio we use.

 

[Karzak]

Add me to the growing chorus of voices applauding you for your restraint and calm, cool demeanor Tom. Certainly the backlash and reception to Renegades has been all over the map and some comments have been out of line. I myself probably have said some things in ways that could have been phrased more nicely... but to see you responding to people with this kind of dignity and lack of hostility has been a pleasant surprise and I want to thank you for not going down the same cliche'd road other fan filmmakers have gone when dealing with negative reactions to their work. More of them (and one or three in particular) could stand to take a lesson from you in fandom diplomacy.

 

[BillJ]

Add me to the growing chorus of voices applauding you for your restraint and calm, cool demeanor Tom. Certainly the backlash and reception to Renegades has been all over the map and some comments have been out of line. I myself probably have said some things in ways that could have been phrased more nicely... but to see you responding to people with this kind of dignity and lack of hostility has been a pleasant surprise and I want to thank you for not going down the same cliche'd road other fan filmmakers have gone when dealing with negative reactions to their work. More of them (and one or three in particular) could stand to take a lesson from you in fandom diplomacy.

+1

Hats off to Tom.

 

[Bixby]

Add me to the growing chorus of voices applauding you for your restraint and calm, cool demeanor Tom. Certainly the backlash and reception to Renegades has been all over the map and some comments have been out of line. I myself probably have said some things in ways that could have been phrased more nicely... but to see you responding to people with this kind of dignity and lack of hostility has been a pleasant surprise and I want to thank you for not going down the same cliche'd road other fan filmmakers have gone when dealing with negative reactions to their work. More of them (and one or three in particular) could stand to take a lesson from you in fandom diplomacy.

You seem to have a problem with directors and\or producers who aren't professional politicians. I've worked in the past with\for directors who tried way too hard to be everybody's buddy and their finished film or series was the least thought-provoquing pablum in my 25 years of professional life.

Maybe its fun for ''civilians'', i.e.: film fans not in the business, to rant on about what a gigantic douche people like Stanley Kubrick or James Cameron or Quentin Tarentino or Oliver Stone or David Fincher are to the public or their crew. And I've worked for a few lesser knowns that were just as unpleasant, but this is what concerns me the most at the end of the day if I'm on their project: did they push me to produce my best work, and was the final project something to be proud of, despite all the bullshit...

Because you can get over bullshit. You never get over a terribly bad project...

 

[Karzak]

Add me to the growing chorus of voices applauding you for your restraint and calm, cool demeanor Tom. Certainly the backlash and reception to Renegades has been all over the map and some comments have been out of line. I myself probably have said some things in ways that could have been phrased more nicely... but to see you responding to people with this kind of dignity and lack of hostility has been a pleasant surprise and I want to thank you for not going down the same cliche'd road other fan filmmakers have gone when dealing with negative reactions to their work. More of them (and one or three in particular) could stand to take a lesson from you in fandom diplomacy.

You seem to have a problem with directors and\or producers who aren't professional politicians.

No, that is not the case at all. The fact of the matter is (as others have commented on this as well), Alec Peters/Linnear/Loken/Red Omega/whoever is no PR dreamsicle. He's hot-headed and quick to anger. Even his staunchest advocate here BigJake has acknowledged this. My comment above was applauding Tom for not letting himself react in that same uselessly melodramatic fashion. In other words, one need not be a "professional politician" to be civil.

but this is what concerns me the most at the end of the day if I'm on their project: did they push me to produce my best work, and was the final project something to be proud of, despite all the bullshit...

I view my superiors on various projects at work in much the same way. None of which applies to Peters' poor track record for interacting with the very people he is soliciting money from to fund his project though. If he's being a colossal dick to his production crew, I've not heard about it. But he's definitely not the PR dreamsicle his production needs right now.

Because you can get over bullshit. You never get over a terribly bad project...

Unfortunately, there's no way to know if AXANAR is subjectivly or objectivly bad or good yet. I'd posit that there is a fair amount of bullshitting going on there, but more importantly this all has nothing to do with the fact that Peters can't take the criticism. Tom has demonstrated he can, and I was taking an opportunity to applaud him for that because in the face of such reactions, it must be difficult to retain one's composure. This is a skill Tom clearly has mastered, yet Peters (and as we saw a few weeks ago Terry) neither possess. That is no attack, it is not "bashing," and it doesn't mean I have made up my mind about AXANAR yet. It just means I appreciate when someone can be a damn adult about these things and not devolve into petty insults or scapegoating when faced with anything less than blind adoration.

 

[Tom]

Should I run for President?

Seriously though there is no need to fight. I have once, in blue moon, gotten a little bit hot headed. Remember a couple months ago I said something not so nice about Maurice's critique of STR and you guys jumped all over me about it.

I have been a part of this forum for 12 years, and created many myself Trekunited, Trekcore, trekpropzone, etc.. So you learn to take comments with a grain of salt, and not forget you there is something called Real Life that is a bit more important.

 

[Bixby]

You seem to have a problem with directors and\or producers who aren't professional politicians.

No, that is not the case at all. The fact of the matter is (as others have commented on this as well), Alec Peters/Linnear/Loken/Red Omega/whoever is no PR dreamsicle.

I was here in the last few years before Alec Peters exited and, yes he could have refrained from jumping the gun a few times when engaged in a war of words. But his main opponent in said war was JUST...AS..DOGGED in continuing\amplifying it. Did I ever get the impression Alec was flaming or insulting...Not really...

Do i want him to be a ''PR dreamsicle''? Why the hell for? I want him to make us the really great film he seems to know he can make.

I view my superiors on various projects at work in much the same way. None of which applies to Peters' poor track record for interacting with the very people he is soliciting money from to fund his project though.

YOU try to manage a project of this scope, wrangling an expanding crew that I'm sure has a LOT of very healthy egos within, all under the microscope of some of the most demanding (a nice way of saying ''massively obsessive-compulsive'') fans who THEMSELVES supply some healthy egos... I've never tried to manage Trek fans in my crews, but I've had ego-monsters under my Watch in the past. It's really hard to keep your composure at times and I've multi-slammed a phone on its handset a couple of times when the pressure was really on...
But I see a few convention videos on YouTube and Peters seems to handle himself and the crowd really well there.

If he's being a colossal dick to his production crew, I've not heard about it. But he's definitely not the PR dreamsicle his production needs right now.

Again, so what? The work is what REALLY matters...

Because you can get over bullshit. You never get over a terribly bad project...

Unfortunately, there's no way to know if AXANAR is subjectively or objectively bad or good yet. I'd posit that there is a fair amount of bullshitting going on there, but more importantly this all has nothing to do with the fact that Peters can't take the criticism.

You misunderstand what I refer to as Bullshit: what I see as bullshit from ''difficult but worthwhile productions'' are things like bruised egos, too-long work days (I once went to work and didn't go home for 56 hours), loud ego-driven artistic arguments, and the like...
Your idea of bullshit seems to be underhanded financial shenanigans, or failing to kiss the ass of the public. Am I right?

Tom has demonstrated he can, and I was taking an opportunity to applaud him for that because in the face of such reactions, it must be difficult to retain one's composure. This is a skill Tom clearly has mastered, yet Peters (and as we saw a few weeks ago Terry) neither possess.

Well speaking for myself, I probably would not have made myself as available as Terry let himself, because that completely opened the door for some members who had an axe to grind, or that come on with the ferocity of a starving pitbull after a choice cut of beef...

 

[Maurice]

I've managed big groups and had to interact with the public, and it's not THAT difficult to be level headed and polite (if firm). "Kill 'em with kindness" generally works pretty well.

 

[Bixby]

I've managed big groups and had to interact with the public, and it's not THAT difficult to be level headed and polite (if firm). "Kill 'em with kindness" generally works pretty well.

Well I agree with that mostly, Maurice. (when I was talking upthread about slamming the phone in anger, that was a unique situation featuring unusually deceptive people on two sides, an almost impossible work Schedule and deadline, and me being stuck between those aforementioned sets of people).

But again, I've up to now seen 6 convention panels on YouTube featuring Alec Peters and Axanar, and lo and behold, he seemed to interact just fine with his public.

 

[Maurice]

But again, I've up to now seen 6 convention panels on YouTube featuring Alec Peters and Axanar, and lo and behold, he seemed to interact just fine with his public.

Yeah, but people who show up for panels are generally fans and thus it's a game of softball.

EDIT

Whoops, I realize I contributed to yet another detour discussing Axanar. That's not fair to the people who come hear to read about and discuss Renegades. My apologies.