Axanar dropped a plot spoiler about a month ago

[BigJake]

This obviously is not something any production should be aspiring to and frankly rather vindicates the Axanar teams' judgement in taking the time to do it right.

You mean their judgement to keep going back to fans for more and more cash?

It's better to raise the funds you actually need up front (despite whatever waves of monotonous "oh noes they're fundraising again and I am Very Suspicious About This" nonsense this might attract) than to land yourself in the predicament Renegades found itself in, it seems to me.

 

[Karzak]

It's kind of comical that people keep trying to harp on this:

particularly given that unlike Axanar (so far), Renegades has actually completed its first film

...as if it's some kind of gotcha, though. Quality-wise, Renegades is fairly evidently a poster child for why not to rush production

Who rushed it? The damn thing was started nearly NINE YEARS AGO.

and were left still trying to recoup costs after their Kickstarter fundraising by asking for absurd amounts in donations for their Blu-Rays. This obviously is not something any production should be aspiring to and frankly rather vindicates the Axanar teams' judgement in taking the time to do it right.

You are aware that Axanar has held FOUR fundraisers, right?

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

This obviously is not something any production should be aspiring to and frankly rather vindicates the Axanar teams' judgement in taking the time to do it right.

You mean their judgement to keep going back to fans for more and more cash?

It's better to raise the funds you actually need up front (despite whatever waves of monotonous "oh noes they're fundraising again and I am Very Suspicious About This" nonsense this might attract) than to land yourself in the predicament Renegades found itself in, it seems to me.

Axanar has already raised 3xs what Renegades raised, and is looking to raise another 3xs what renegades raised....

Concern about how Axanar went from being an 800k movie to being an almost 2 million dollar movie, is legitimate, and now, other than, "its gonna be great" (now we know where Trump got his campaign strategy) they haven't really explained it.

This production has a history of over promising and under delivering (the perks being a primary example). And BEFORE anyone mentions the difficulty of perks for the number of donors they have, they STILL HAVE NOT updated their donors page with the names of people who donated to their last Kickstarter... A year ago....

So yes these concerns are legitimate...

 

[BillJ]

This production has a history of over promising and under delivering (the perks being a primary example). And BEFORE anyone mentions the difficulty of perks for the number of donors they have, they STILL HAVE NOT updated their donors page with the names of people who donated to their last Kickstarter... A year ago....

So yes these concerns are legitimate...

They're working on collecting cash from the next set of rubes.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

This production has a history of over promising and under delivering (the perks being a primary example). And BEFORE anyone mentions the difficulty of perks for the number of donors they have, they STILL HAVE NOT updated their donors page with the names of people who donated to their last Kickstarter... A year ago....

So yes these concerns are legitimate...

They're working on collecting cash from the next set of rubes.

When your team can't take the time, to do something simple like update a web page with names of people who donated money one year ago... It certainly seems like that doesn't it?

 

[BigJake]

You are aware that Axanar has held FOUR fundraisers, right?

*gasp!* The humanity!

That you're saying that as if it's some kind of self-evident wrongdoing says so much about your attitude, right there.

 

[Tom]

You mean their judgement to keep going back to fans for more and more cash?

It's better to raise the funds you actually need up front (despite whatever waves of monotonous "oh noes they're fundraising again and I am Very Suspicious About This" nonsense this might attract) than to land yourself in the predicament Renegades found itself in, it seems to me.

Axanar has already raised 3xs what Renegades raised, and is looking to raise another 3xs what renegades raised....

Concern about how Axanar went from being an 800k movie to being an almost 2 million dollar movie, is legitimate, and now, other than, "its gonna be great" (now we know where Trump got his campaign strategy) they haven't really explained it.

This production has a history of over promising and under delivering (the perks being a primary example). And BEFORE anyone mentions the difficulty of perks for the number of donors they have, they STILL HAVE NOT updated their donors page with the names of people who donated to their last Kickstarter... A year ago....

So yes these concerns are legitimate...

But Alec pays his girlfriend a full time salary to take care of the donors, how could that be? Surely you jest...

 

[BillJ]

You are aware that Axanar has held FOUR fundraisers, right?

*gasp!* The humanity!

That you're saying that as if it's some kind of self-evident wrongdoing says so much about your attitude, right there.

Not "wrongdoing"? But I think there is a fair question of how much money should it really take to do a fan film? Especially, when you have no licensing fees to pay nor do you have to pay Hollywood scale to most of the people involved.

 

[Karzak]

and were left still trying to recoup costs after their Kickstarter fundraising by asking for absurd amounts in donations for their Blu-Rays. This obviously is not something any production should be aspiring to and frankly rather vindicates the Axanar teams' judgement in taking the time to do it right.

You are aware that Axanar has held FOUR fundraisers, right?

You are aware that Axanar has held FOUR fundraisers, right?

*gasp!* The humanity!

That you're saying that as if it's some kind of self-evident wrongdoing says so much about your attitude, right there.

Despite your cleverly omitting your own previous comment (which I have restored here so you can see the full picture), no that's not at all what I was saying.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of your alleging that Renegades was somehow asking for "absurd" amounts of money in its fundraisers by pointing out how many times Axanar has gone to that same well.

Selectively omitting comments and information to suit your own misguided beliefs about all this is pretty low-grade tomfoolery, even for you, man.

To be clear, I did not imply any sort of wrongdoing by the Axanar group by reminding you that they've conducted four fundraisers. You grafted that assumption onto this yourself.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

You are aware that Axanar has held FOUR fundraisers, right?

*gasp!* The humanity!

That you're saying that as if it's some kind of self-evident wrongdoing says so much about your attitude, right there.

Not "wrongdoing"? But I think there is a fair question of how much money should it really take to do a fan film? Especially, when you have no licensing fees to pay nor do you have to pay Hollywood scale to most of the people involved.

I am sorry, I only know of 3 fundraisers... The prelude Kickstarter, Axanar Kickstarter, and now the Axanar indiggogo....was there another one that I missed?

 

[Tom]

Ok, someone has to say it... "There are Four Lights!"

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

And I still wanna know how CBS might feel knowing that Axanar used their IP to market a fundraising scheme to create their own for profit studio.....

 

[Karzak]

*gasp!* The humanity!

That you're saying that as if it's some kind of self-evident wrongdoing says so much about your attitude, right there.

Not "wrongdoing"? But I think there is a fair question of how much money should it really take to do a fan film? Especially, when you have no licensing fees to pay nor do you have to pay Hollywood scale to most of the people involved.

I am sorry, I only know of 3 fundraisers... The prelude Kickstarter, Axanar Kickstarter, and now the Axanar indiggogo....was there another one that I missed?

Axanar also ran the Kickstarter for the final "These Are The Voyages" book, the proceeds from which partially went to the Axanar production.

 

[BigJake]

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of your alleging that Renegades was somehow asking for "absurd" amounts of money in its fundraisers by pointing out how many times Axanar has gone to that same well.

Renegades was asking for absurd money for its final product because its officially fundraised dollars fell short. In fact it was you who called this practice into question on the Renegades thread, and understandably so. I would rather Renegades had raised that money up front, no matter how many fundraisers it took, than wind up in that position. This is not a difficult point and AFAICS you're being wilfully obtuse about it, for what reason I can't imagine.

 

[Karzak]

Yes, I asked about it in the Renegades thread. So what?

The point is you had no problem impugning the Renegades group for it, but likewise do not hold that same standard to Axanar. At least that's what I'm getting from your comments here, and your attempts to distract from it by accusing me of having some sort of agenda.

 

[BigJake]

The point is you had no problem impugning the Renegades group for it

I have no problem seeing belated fundraising after the fact with a product supposed to have been paid for as different from fundraising prior to production, yes. Why you're determined to pretend they're the same is more mysterious. The problem is not that Renegades crossed some arbitrary line of being "too much money for a fanfilm," but that they were trying to recoup costs from the backers after the fact.

 

[BillJ]

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of your alleging that Renegades was somehow asking for "absurd" amounts of money in its fundraisers by pointing out how many times Axanar has gone to that same well.

Renegades was asking for absurd money for its final product because its officially fundraised dollars fell short. In fact it was you who called this practice into question on the Renegades thread, and understandably so. I would rather Renegades had raised that money up front, no matter how many fundraisers it took, than wind up in that position. This is not a difficult point and AFAICS you're being wilfully obtuse about it, for what reason I can't imagine.

I'm confused on why it matters how they raised the money? Do you honestly think if there are budget shortfalls when all is said and done, that Axanar won't go back to the well to try to recoup their losses? They paid for a shortfall from "Prelude..." with money they collected in the next Kickstarter.

Maybe they wouldn't have to raise as much money if they hadn't spent $180k on renting a warehouse that sat empty for most of the year?

I hope they're as zealous about making this film as they are about collecting money.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

The point is you had no problem impugning the Renegades group for it

I have no problem seeing belated fundraising after the fact with a product supposed to have been paid for as different from fundraising prior to production, yes. Why you're determined to pretend they're the same is more mysterious. The problem is not that Renegades crossed some arbitrary line of being "too much money for a fanfilm," but that they were trying to recoup costs from the backers after the fact.

Axanar raised 660k on their last Kickstarter, on a proposed 850k budget.... When they came around this year, that budget went from being 850k to upwards of 2 million dollars.... If you donated any money last time, and thought, hey we are only 200k from getting this shot, you were sorely mistaken, and now, you find out it's gonna take another 1.2-1.3 to finish it all up...

That isn't different than renegades my friend.... It's the same thing... Forcing people to spend good dollars to chase bad....

 

[Indysolo]

You mean their judgement to keep going back to fans for more and more cash?

Did someone say "Cash"?



Neil

 

[Tom]

"After the fact" can you describe that for me. Next, go out them make this type of film for yourself, then, re-describe that term again, i wonder if you will come out with the same meaning.