TUC - not aged well

[Shaka Zulu]

I watched TUC last night, for the first time in maybe 10 years. I didn't find it an enjoyable experience. From the over done racism, to several cheesy moments (Scotty nearly messing his incontinence pants when the Enterprise starts her mission), through Valeris making the main characters look stupid. The story itself felt hamfisted and clunky. Even the Shakespeare felt overdone.

20 years ago, this was my favorite Trek movie, now I seriously dislike it. Why has it aged so badly?

I think it hasn't aged as well because in large part, the world grew up a bit in the meantime. Most of us look at that movie, see the obvious racism, and cringe because that's no longer part of the social norms we find acceptable.

I get that the movie was intended to be an allegory for then-current events, but it was done so clumsily that it wasn't what I, at least, consider good Star Trek. On my personal ranking of the TOS movies, TUC ranks above TFF, but below all the others.

Or it could be argued that this is simply where the social norms of the TOS-universe were at that point. After all, the little bit of 23rd-century stuff we saw in Generations isn't enough to tell us if there was a major shift in society's attitudes (or at least Starfleet's attitudes) toward the negativity we saw in TUC. We don't know if the obvious racist attitudes we saw are ubiquitous at that time or just within Starfleet.

Either way, it's not my cup of tea (no tea-related puns intended).

Add to this the use of the sub-plot of TWOK in this movie (Praxis explodes but doesn't wreck the surface of Kronos with debris, as Ceti Alpha 6's destruction did to Ceti Alpha 5) as a metaphor for Chernobyl and glasnost which was just too heavy-handed for it's own good and (for me) was lacking in the logic department. The crappy production values also are a turn-off (although the last battle was great.) Another thing that gets me about this movie is the plot's idea that the Klingon Empire doesn't have the resources to fix Kronos's atmosphere on its own, and that it would focus all of its energy production on one planet instead of hundreds through its part of the galaxy.

Frankly, I think that the proposed Starfleet Academy movie put forth by Harve Bennett would have been a lot better of a send off for the crew, but that was destroyed by George Takei being upset about being 'replaced' by younger people (he started a campaign to stop the movie, and it sadly succeeded, leaving us with this mediocre mess.)

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Hu da hek Beach anyway?

He was the officer who took command of the Reliant when Terrell and Chekov went on their little eventful expedition to Ceta Alpha VI ... um V.

http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Beach

 

[Daddy Todd]

I didn't care for VI right from the get-go.
1) The Klingon Empire=USSR analogy was painfully on-the-nose. I like my analogies at least somewhat subtle. This was as sledgehammer annoying as "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield".
2) Humor at the expense of the characters. We were expected to laugh at them, not with them. Unpleasant.
3) Chintzy production values, such as the use of TNG sets everywhere but the bridge. Cardboard sets everywhere else. Even the costumes look threadbare in this movie.

None of it worked for me. It hasn't aged badly for me, because it was bad when I first saw it. I understand why every one of these things happened, but that doesn't make it OK. If the choice was between this movie and no movie at all, I probably would vote for no movie at all.

 

[JWPlatt]

The choice of no movie at all is a bad one because you have no choice but not to watch it. Every addition to our culture is worthwhile because it offers the freedom of choice, or at least an example of a mistake to avoid in the future. It's about learning, and without that we do not progress. Some people don't learn, because we continue to make bad movies *cough* Fantasic Four *cough*, but that's different issue.

 

[Jedman67]

I didn't care for VI right from the get-go.
1) The Klingon Empire=USSR analogy was painfully on-the-nose. I like my analogies at least somewhat subtle. This was as sledgehammer annoying as "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield".
2) Humor at the expense of the characters. We were expected to laugh at them, not with them. Unpleasant.
3) Chintzy production values, such as the use of TNG sets everywhere but the bridge. Cardboard sets everywhere else. Even the costumes look threadbare in this movie.

None of it worked for me. It hasn't aged badly for me, because it was bad when I first saw it. I understand why every one of these things happened, but that doesn't make it OK. If the choice was between this movie and no movie at all, I probably would vote for no movie at all.

After TMP, TPTB decided that the trek movie series had too much money and significantly cut the budget for TWOK and the follow-ons. What happened was that you had a few decent movies, two outstanding movies, and one (or two) which would have been better off filming drying paint rather than what we got.
That meant that TUC didn't have the money to build a whole new ships worth of sets that would only be seen for 12 seconds anyway (although amortizing the cost of new sets between TFF and TUC probably could have worked).
Sickbay would have been really better off as a new set, or at least a much better disguised set. For the rest, it's barely noticeable except for the VIP lounge and transporter, both of which were pretty heavily modified for the movie (at least the transporter room, not too sure about the lounge).
I haven't seen the movie in some time, but i have no recollection of "threadbare" or heavily worn out costumes.
In terms of plot/script; it would probably have been better if Nimoy had directed/written instead of Meyer. Nonetheless, i enjoyed watching it, although i haven't seen it in some time.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Chekov was NOT the XO of the Reliant. Mr. Beach was. Am I the only one who noticed this?

If by "XO" you mean "first officer," I disagree:

"Starship log, stardate 8130.4. Log entry by First Officer Pavel Chekov.…"

From what I understand, Chekov being first officer of the Reliant was something that was added in the voiceover at Walter Koenig's insistence. It was probably something along the lines of "If George's character is getting a promotion, mine should, too!"

It would make much more sense for Terrell to take his science officer along to check out Ceti Alpha VI than his first officer. And originally, that's what Chekov was.

 

[eyeresist]

Can't the science officer also be the first officer?

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Can't the science officer also be the first officer?

Wasn't Spock both?

 

[BillJ]

Can't the science officer also be the first officer?

Yup.

Can't the science officer also be the first officer?

Wasn't Spock both?

And yup.

 

[JediKnightButler]

I rewatched it a few times recently and I can see its flaws (the Spock/Valeris forced mind meld scene now makes me uncomfortable when considering the connotations) but I remember that, at the time it came out, TUC was a HUGE improvement over the previous movie (TFF). It still runs well enough for me though. I especially love the final battle with Chang's ship right up through the end of the movie. I actually think that the TOS crew's send off in that movie was pitch perfect and I kind of wish that they hadn't brought any of them back for Generations.

 

[Galileo7]

... I actually think that the TOS crew's send off in that movie and kind of wish that they hadn't brought any of them back for Generations.

Agree.

 

[Warped9]

One of the stupidest things I remember in TUC was McCoy on the bridge in the midst of battle (rather than Sickbay) and just why the hell is the Science Officer and Chief Surgeon arming a torpedo?

Seriously There's no one in weapons or on Scotty's engineering staff who would know how to do that?

 

[BillJ]

One of the stupidest things I remember in TUC was McCoy on the bridge in the midst of battle (rather than Sickbay) and just why the hell is the Science Officer and Chief Surgeon arming a torpedo?

Seriously There's no one in weapons or on Scotty's engineering staff who would know how to do that?

Spock wanted to work with his buddy. But honestly, it isn't like McCoy wasn't on the bridge at inappropriate times throughout TOS.

 

[Lance]

In many ways it's the least "escapist" of the TOS movies -- the allegory to the fall of the Berlin wall is historically interesting, but in some ways the world and the political spectrum have changed so much since 1991, that the whole story feels quaint. At the time it had its finger on the pulse of current events, but now it's as much a part of history as those events themselves, and regrettably hindsight in a stark (and often unfair) judge.

 

[fireproof78]

One of the stupidest things I remember in TUC was McCoy on the bridge in the midst of battle (rather than Sickbay) and just why the hell is the Science Officer and Chief Surgeon arming a torpedo?

Seriously There's no one in weapons or on Scotty's engineering staff who would know how to do that?

Given the speed and knowledge that needed to be done, as well as Engineering dealing with the damage control, Spock probably felt he could do it faster.

McCoy is just a standard TOS trope.

"No casualties reported, sir."

"Wrong, Mister Chekov. There were casualties-my wits."

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Can't the science officer also be the first officer?

Wasn't Spock both?

Yes, but I always got the feeling that was more the exception than the rule. It seems to me that science officer and first officer would both be full-time jobs, and Spock was able to do both so exceptionally because he was just that good.

But hey, maybe I'm totally wrong. After all, the TOS era didn't have a designated place on the bridge for the first officer, so maybe it was common in Kirk's day for the exec to hold down another position on ship. Number One was working at the helm, after all.

One of the stupidest things I remember in TUC was McCoy on the bridge in the midst of battle (rather than Sickbay) and just why the hell is the Science Officer and Chief Surgeon arming a torpedo?

Seriously There's no one in weapons or on Scotty's engineering staff who would know how to do that?

Would you be very satisfied if, ten minutes from the end of the very last movie with the original crew, Spock suddenly recruited the never-seen-before Ensign Ricky from engineering to help him while an original cast member just stood around twiddling his thumbs?

 

[WarpFactorZ]

One of the stupidest things I remember in TUC was McCoy on the bridge in the midst of battle (rather than Sickbay) and just why the hell is the Science Officer and Chief Surgeon arming a torpedo?

Seriously There's no one in weapons or on Scotty's engineering staff who would know how to do that?

I always thought it was a way to get the characters we'd seen already in TNG off the bridge so that the ones *on* the bridge could be killed. This fit in with the idea that Kirk was rumored to be killed off in VI (never knew if that was a true rumor or not). Maybe in an earlier draft this happened, but it was re-written after?

 

[dub]

It made no sense for McCoy to be helping with the torpedo realistically speaking (if you consider Trek "realistic"), but it made for some good Bones one-liners which outweighed the "not making sense" aspect for me.

Moments like...

Spock: "Doctor, would you care to assist me in performing surgery on a photon torpedo?"
McCoy: "Fascinating!"

"We have a heartbeat."

"I'd give real money if he'd shutup."​

Based on this thread and others, I'm sure there are plenty of folks who hate the humor in those scenes. But I loved it.

 

[Timo]

After all, the TOS era didn't have a designated place on the bridge for the first officer, so maybe it was common in Kirk's day for the exec to hold down another position on ship. Number One was working at the helm, after all.

We saw two or three configurations for the Enterprise bridge - but the rest of Trek teaches us that no two starship bridges are alike. So Kirk's bridge might have been tailored for the special fact of Spock pulling exceptional double duty (even if in "Where No Man" he did not yet do that).

And Number One might simply have been Pike's most trusted navigator rather than his executive. For all we know, the XO died on Rigel VII, and Pike had his chair removed because it brought back painful memories.

It made no sense for McCoy to be helping with the torpedo realistically speaking (if you consider Trek "realistic")

Well, the one excuse we can make is that the ship might have sailed out with a greatly reduced crew for what was going to be a milk run. Starfleet might not have allocated any extra weapons specialists because the escort mission needed none, or because they didn't want to give Kirk ideas. So when the ship did engage in combat, nobody could be spared but the useless country doctor.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JWPlatt]

All Starfleet officers can do the job of any other Starfleet officer - doctor, engineer, navigator, communications, helmsman, caption, science officer, or admiral. They just have their standard stations and use a zone defense in dynamic situations.