Welcome back Tos

[USS Triumphant]

Exactly so. Truth is, the choice is between upgrading and having the show become a forgotten fossil over the next few decades. I suppose that might suit some of us oldsters in a perverse way - as Guy Lombardo once joked on Laugh-In, "When I go, I'm taking New Year's Eve with me!" - but it would be a shame.

I imagine the new effects will be replaced by even newer effects eventually which will reflect improvements in technology and cost.

I find this attitude insulting.

And...?

Of course TOS was very much in danger of being "forgotten" where it matters to the people who own it - forgotten by the audience that might represent a future for their IP. They knew damned well that the original versions were not going to sell on Blu-Ray or command any kind of wprthwhile license fees on HD cable.

Silent movies are curiosities now, not art that's widely enjoyed generation after generation. If TOS is nothing but an artifact of its time, ignored by almost everyone a few decades hence, then all the brave words bandied about by fans regarding its "timelessness" would be pretty vapid.

Word. Cherished by archivists and historians is not the same thing as *popular*. I personally enjoy looking at and listening to wax cylinders occasionally, and I would agree they should be preserved, but not to the extent to playing buggy whip manufacturer and insisting on their being used in preference to MP3 players. The beauty of TOS is that we don't even have to choose - we can archive the original version of the series, still have TOS-R, and even have further afield remixes of the material such as using the audio in songs like "What's On Your Mind? (Pure Energy)" by Information Society.

 

[Mudd]

https://vimeo.com/darendoc/review/134809379/2430c35a29

 

[BillJ]

https://vimeo.com/darendoc/review/134809379/2430c35a29

A much better job than what we eventually got. But then I doubt he was working with the same deadlines that CBS Digital had.

 

[Warped9]

https://vimeo.com/darendoc/review/134809379/2430c35a29

I could have some minor quibbles, but that looks a helluva lot better than TOS-R. The new f/x sequences are not jarring and fit much better with the live-action footage.

A much better job than what we eventually got. But then I doubt he was working with the same deadlines that CBS Digital had.

Agreed. If nothing else he should have been put in charge of overseeing the whole project.

 

[J.T.B.]

Well we don't know that yet. Maybe in another 50 years. So far its still popular. Also even though I am not a fan of NuTrek it has help to get the youngins to at least check out TOS. By the time the show becomes irrelevant we will all be dead so none of us will care.

I agree, but "popular" is a relative term. Compared to other 1960s shows, TOS is phenomenally popular; but in the overall media world it's a tiny blip. Whether that will be enough to justify future investment into "re-vitalizing" the property is open for question. There are elements other than picture quality and visual effects that date the show, too: sets, pacing, dialogue style, acting style, cultural aspects... The further away we get from the original viewing era the harder it will be for new mainstream viewers to get into the show. It's appeal will increasingly be to a small, specialized audience who appreciates the historic value or likes the aesthetics of old productions. Those viewers, I think, will care less and less about what some effects team thought should be added to the series 40 years after the fact.

How long the show will remain "relevant," or if it still is, I have no idea and would probably not be a good judge.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Well we don't know that yet. Maybe in another 50 years. So far its still popular. Also even though I am not a fan of NuTrek it has help to get the youngins to at least check out TOS. By the time the show becomes irrelevant we will all be dead so none of us will care.

I agree, but "popular" is a relative term. Compared to other 1960s shows, TOS is phenomenally popular; but in the overall media world it's a tiny blip. Whether that will be enough to justify future investment into "re-vitalizing" the property is open for question. There are elements other than picture quality and visual effects that date the show, too: sets, pacing, dialogue style, acting style, cultural aspects... The further away we get from the original viewing era the harder it will be for new mainstream viewers to get into the show. It's appeal will increasingly be to a small, specialized audience who appreciates the historic value or likes the aesthetics of old productions. Those viewers, I think, will care less and less about what some effects team thought should be added to the series 40 years after the fact.

How long the show will remain "relevant," or if it still is, I have no idea and would probably not be a good judge.

I think it will remain relevant at least until I am gone. ITs gained some steam in recent years because of NuTrek and wont be falling out of the public consciousness anytime soon.

 

[Dukhat]

Also even though I am not a fan of NuTrek it has help to get the youngins to at least check out TOS.

ITs gained some steam in recent years because of NuTrek and wont be falling out of the public consciousness anytime soon.

This topic has nothing to do with nuTrek. It has to do with the differences between TOS and TOS-R. So why don't we keep it that way?

 

[Sector 7]

Also even though I am not a fan of NuTrek it has help to get the youngins to at least check out TOS.

ITs gained some steam in recent years because of NuTrek and wont be falling out of the public consciousness anytime soon.

This topic has nothing to do with nuTrek. It has to do with the differences between TOS and TOS-R. So why don't we keep it that way?

Sorry, but nuTrek IS a factor. Therefore, it should be included in any discussion about the popularity of TOS and TOS-R. Especially important is nuTrek's ability to attract new fans who start watching the original series.

 

[Dukhat]

Sorry, but nuTrek IS a factor. Therefore, it should be included in any discussion about the popularity of TOS and TOS-R. Especially important is nuTrek's ability to attract new fans who start watching the original series.

Really? Then kindly please explain what it has to do with the differences between TOS and TOS-R, when nothing about that was involved in any way with nuTrek?

BTW, let me quote the OP:

Well after years of watching Tos on Netflix , I welcomed back true trek and ripped my blu Rays onto my plex server , the non remastered versions, in all thier 2.0 glory (wish the original mono was included) still these are the versions that really bring trek home to this 53 year old. And it makes me sad that new generations will prob be exposed to this version. The effects set the mood of the show. They are fine

He doesn't say a single thing about nuTrek. He's talking about the dismay he feels about future Trek fans only being exposed to TOS-R as opposed to the original '60's VFX.

 

[Franklin]

I guess I don't see it as some kind of artistic meddling because to me, it's not like they're putting a more contemporary dress on the original Mona Lisa. It just means there are two versions. After all, TOS is a piece of popular culture, and if TOS-R creates more TOS fans, especially younger ones, and keeps it in pop culture, then all the better. After all, all the TOS-R did was improve the FX only to the standards that would've been possible in the day with higher budgets and maybe more time. It's not like it was trying to fit 21st century quality FX seamlessly into a TV show from the mid-1960s. That would be jarring.

 

[Mudd]

Also even though I am not a fan of NuTrek it has help to get the youngins to at least check out TOS.

ITs gained some steam in recent years because of NuTrek and wont be falling out of the public consciousness anytime soon.

This topic has nothing to do with nuTrek. It has to do with the differences between TOS and TOS-R. So why don't we keep it that way?

Sorry, but nuTrek IS a factor. Therefore, it should be included in any discussion about the popularity of TOS and TOS-R. Especially important is nuTrek's ability to attract new fans who start watching the original series.

Yep. It's hard to talk about TOS apart from nuTrek, given that the latter is more or less a resurrection of the former and key to how these characters and setting will be perceived by future audiences.

 

[Warped9]

...all the TOS-R did was improve the FX only to the standards that would've been possible in the day with higher budgets and maybe more time. It's not like it was trying to fit 21st century quality FX seamlessly into a TV show from the mid-1960s. That would be jarring.

And it is jarring to see mediocre 21st century f/x shoehorned into a 1960's production. And you're wrong about what would have been possible back in the day as well regarding what they would have done.

Let's assume TOS had had more time and money. Do you seriously think they would have done exactly what CBS did with TOS-R? TOS-R reflects a perspective coloured by forty years of changing f/x standards as well as all the series and films produced during that time, including five spin-off Trek series and ten films. Additionally they retconned things into the project that simply didn't exist even as an idea back in 1964-69.

It's the height of conceit to assume a more polished TOS originally would have looked just like TOS-R. That really is dreaming on some obscure substance.

Even if TOS had had all the time and money in the world back in the day it wouldn't have looked like much TOS-R. The resources and perspectives and considerations of the original creators were simply too far removed from those of today.

Take the Klingon ship. TOS deliberately coloured it differently from the Starfleet standard as seen on the Enterprise. This helped make the design look more alien. But TOS-R deliberately ignored the intent of the original creators to make the Klingon design look more in sync with the more recent productions. They also added a lot more detail to the Tholian ships that clashes with the established aesthetic style of all the other ship designs on TOS. They produced visual effects that never would have been done in such fashion as was possible in the 1960s. Time after time they made changes that wouldn't or couldn't have been done originally even with all the time and money in the world available.

 

[Maurice]

That CGI Klingon ship is an embarrassment in more ways than one. Poor thing should be put out of its misery.

 

[TRON JA307020]

This topic has nothing to do with nuTrek. It has to do with the differences between TOS and TOS-R. So why don't we keep it that way?

Sorry, but nuTrek IS a factor. Therefore, it should be included in any discussion about the popularity of TOS and TOS-R. Especially important is nuTrek's ability to attract new fans who start watching the original series.

Yep. It's hard to talk about TOS apart from nuTrek, given that the latter is more or less a resurrection of the former and key to how these characters and setting will be perceived by future audiences.

Right NuTrek was spawned form old trek. TOS Spock played a prominent role so I would assume new fans may want to try out TOS to see where the old Spock originated from. When all is said and done I think NuTrek may have extended the interest in TOS for a few more years beyond what it might originally had without any new movies.

 

[Warped9]

https://vimeo.com/darendoc/review/134809379/2430c35a29

As I mentioned before while I still have some quibbles this was otherwise excellently done. It's far, far better than what CBS did with TOS-R.

 

[TRON JA307020]

https://vimeo.com/darendoc/review/134809379/2430c35a29

As I mentioned before while I still have some quibbles this was otherwise excellently done. It's far, far better than what CBS did with TOS-R.

Ah yes the doomsday machine. By far one of the best episodes of the series. Excellent.

 

[Warped9]

https://vimeo.com/darendoc/review/134809379/2430c35a29

As I mentioned before while I still have some quibbles this was otherwise excellently done. It's far, far better than what CBS did with TOS-R.

Ah yes the doomsday machine. By far one of the best episodes of the series. Excellent.

I might have made some different choices in terms of composition, but the aesthetic style is bang on. The way it's done looks plausible in terms of whether it could have been done originally back in the day with more money and resources. Little to none of it made me feel, "No damned way that could or would have been done back then."

 

[TRON JA307020]

I find this attitude insulting. But in keeping with this mindset let's go back to films like the 1933 King Kong and replace all that crappy stop-motion f/x. While we're at it let's go through those classic SF films of the '50s, '60s and '70s and redo all that shitty f/x and do it right.

Old films and television series are visual documents of their time. They do deserve a measure of respect and consideration for the efforts of those who created them.

I think "insulting" is a bit strong. I don't thinks folks are advocating throwing out the originals. But there are advantages to remastering. It can entice a new generation that lacks the imagination or patience of earlier folks. As a means to an end it has a purpose IMO - and a useful one. That said, I do understand that it's playing with history at a fundamental level and that can be dangerous. That may seem like an overstatement, but consider there is a whole generation out there that think the # key is on their phones (put there) for no other purpose than twittering.

I regret using the word "insulting." At the time it was the first word that came to mind, but upon later reflection "offensive" didn't seem quite right either. The words "disturbing," "disrespectful" and "disdainful" seem more on the mark of what I should have said.

Agreed. I love the original War of the Worlds movie and love it the way it is. Finding little things like the strings holding the models up is fun. They no longer rerun Star Trek on television or Netflix with the original effects. If I was the original effects artist on TOS I would be pretty depressed to see that my work is no longer shown or even matters.

 

[Franklin]

Musical pieces (from classical to rock) get remixed, remastered, reinterpreted, and covered all the time. As long as the original exists, if doing the other things continues to create interest in the music, then why not? What's wrong with multiple versions of essentially the same song?

Of course, some may like some versions better than others. Nothing wrong with that.

But what's necessarily wrong with trying to create more TOS fans fifty years (or in this case forty years) after the fact by offering them something they are more likely to enjoy? After all, I'd at least say whatever gets them into enjoying the stories and characters is fine. That's the most important thing.

Variances of opinion understandably exist. Nimoy didn't like the idea, but when he saw some of the work, he called it, "Amazing." Majel Barrett Roddenberry thought it would've been fine with Gene Roddenberry, saying he wouldn't have been bothered by it at all. Since it was a show about the future, she thought he'd actually approve of and like the idea that technology was being used to make his show look better.

Link to interviews that said the above:
http://trekmovie.com/2006/09/15/nimoy-up-for-spock-down-on-remastered/

 

[Warped9]

That TOS was cleaned up and enhanced isn't the issue. The issue some of us have is how it was done.