Star Trek: Axanar

[TerryMcIntosh]

Judging an unfinished product by a "teaser" short film and one released scene is not logical.

I don't think anyone is judging the film, they're judging the scene. But, it would be no different than people thinking Axanar is going to be great because they liked Prelude.

Maybe we're not reading the same posts, or interpreting them the same way.

That said, there is a lot of prejudice both for and against Axanar and the next sanctioned film.

Not judging, just observing.

It's a shame that there's any bitterness, rivalry, or prejudice against any Trek by another perceived faction, or that there are factions at all. It's not a race or a competition and there's room in the Trek galaxy for many stories to be told in a multi-verse setting, especially since Trek has had a historical chub for time travel and mucking with history.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, there are some out there that take their Star Trek a bit too seriously... as in an unhealthy fashion. But, that said, the love of the franchise binds us, regardless.

 

[Karzak]

I think its perfectly reasonable (and possible) to have enjoyed Prelude but still take issue with the faults of the Vulcan scene. Or vice versa, and minus any "bitterness, rivalry, or prejudice against any Trek."

Such situations/reactions do not require their being dismissed as "fans taking Star Trek too seriously" any more than reactions to other fan films being released. Some fans do take Trek too seriously. That's a given. But it's not all of us.

 

[Kemaiku]

Better than two Vulcans just casually discussing the end of the Federation like they're discussing what they had for lunch.

While I'd agree that formal Vulcan-on-Vulcan convos have the potential to be dull as ditchwater and perhaps would be better avoided in a theatrical film or TV show aimed at Joe Public, surely a fan film aimed at the ultra hardcore Trekkies is the one place where you can get away with it?

I'm not asking for him to walk into the council chambers, rip up the print out of the decision, yell "fuck all a' y'all" and walk out. Just liven up the scene by having more of the process being shown.

Have that long lovely pan in shot, into the VHC where the debate is ending, Soval shakes his head and walks out talking to someone a little more lively, noting the true severity of whats happening.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think anyone is judging the film, they're judging the scene. But, it would be no different than people thinking Axanar is going to be great because they liked Prelude.

Maybe we're not reading the same posts, or interpreting them the same way.

That said, there is a lot of prejudice both for and against Axanar and the next sanctioned film.

Not judging, just observing.

It's a shame that there's any bitterness, rivalry, or prejudice against any Trek by another perceived faction, or that there are factions at all. It's not a race or a competition and there's room in the Trek galaxy for many stories to be told in a multi-verse setting, especially since Trek has had a historical chub for time travel and mucking with history.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, there are some out there that take their Star Trek a bit too seriously... as in an unhealthy fashion. But, that said, the love of the franchise binds us, regardless.

I have to agree, rather strongly. It is one thing to disagree (and I disagree about a number of topics with friends, not just Star Trek). It is another thing to feel that something is so hated that mere mention is enough to stir rancor. Its frustrating because it limits actual discussion and debate over the topic, and turns in on other fans.

All that said, analysis and nitpicking is stuff that I love to do. Prelude is fun, and not without its faults. The Vulcan scene was far more enjoyable, simply because it is a look in to a slice of life on Vulcan that I don't think has ever really been explored before.

Is it the "best ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (trademark pending)? Personally, I say no. Am I excited to see it happen? Absolutely. I love fan productions and love getting to hear from Terry, Sean and Tobias as the work unfolds.

The drama surrounding this production is even more entertaining, if a bit surreal.

 

[BillJ]

The Vulcan scene was far more enjoyable, simply because it is a look in to a slice of life on Vulcan that I don't think has ever really been explored before.

I think that maybe they shouldn't have rushed the Vulcan scene out. Maybe wait til your done with principal photography and some CGI, then do a proper trailer. There is simply no context to really judge the scene beyond what is there. It may end up working within the context of the film. Maybe it won't.

 

[Amaris]

I didn't really find the scene dull. I rather enjoyed it, and would have listened to more. I understand that there needs to be action, and plot progression, to balance it out, but I did like it for what it was.

 

[Phantom]

After six hundred hours of people mostly talking at each other, I'd rather have the "pew pew". Are Star Trek fans allergic to fun or what?

No reason we can't have both, in proper proportion.

I disagree. I think the visuals from the last two films surpassed anything that came before it and that Axanar would do well to aspire to that quality.

That, of course, is a subjective opinion that utterly fails to take into account their vastly different resources and expectations. Likewise: I prefer the taste of Taco Bell's Chalupa Supreme to the tacos made by the "authentic mexican cuisine" at the more expensive restaurant two blocks down the street. That's just a matter of personal taste, but I'm not about to claim that Taco bell produces a superior product to a Zagat-rated family-owned restaurant.

You're making the same mistake Tom is: a) trying to force the false "fanfilm vs 'real'/'pro'-fim" dichotomy and b) equating the former with fast/junk food (with attendant "lesser quality expectation").

Exposition is important in the development of any storyline, but only in the same sense that eating your vegetables is important for a balanced diet. It's tricky to combine exposition with character development or even genuine emotion, but not impossible, even for Vulcans.

And the scene pulls it off nicely. We already know there will be a "pew pew" quotient. The Vulcan scene shows us that there will also be character-driven moments with introspection and meaning to go with the "pew pew" iced cake.

Folks can think of Axanar being like this -- more TNG's Yesterday's Enterprise and less TNG's The Child. Will there be pew-pew's? Sure, and some really great ones, but the story isn't about that. The war is just a setting for the character drama, much as Band of Brothers was a story about the characters/people that just happened to be in a war setting.

TWOK wasn't about pew-pew's. It was about the characters and the conflict created the drama. Axanar doesn't conceit to compare itself to the masterpiece that is TWOK, but hopefully that analogy lands and sets expectations on what we're going for.

So what are you going to do when it turns out that you do in fact make a film that compares favorably to Khan?

From the product I've seen so far, you're definitely well on the way to doing just that.

^ Funnily enough, the Berman years went south for me when they tried getting more action-y about things, starting with DS9.

Berman had little or nothing to do with DS9. He was too busy (for the most part) with TNG, the movies, and Voyager.

And thank God he was. Some of his ideas, like the Dominion War only lasting 3 episodes, were laughable at best.

 

[Phantom]

You find two characters discussing events that are about to doom free civilization throughout an entire quadrant of the galaxy "dull"?

It's Star Trek that happens every day - it's mundane

I suppose you'd rather have another scene of ships going "pew pew" at each other instead...

Yes because they are our only two options - mindless action or really dull exposition nothing else exists...

Not only is the scene in question inherently not dull (Vulcan seceeding from the Federation is a big deal), but it's Soval who is arguing so strongly and passionately (for a Vulcan) for keeping the alliance with the humans. Given that when we first saw him he basically hated humans, it's powerful to see him as their advocate.

Sometimes it feels like exposition has become a dirty word. Not to mention, people often decry it when they are really complaining about a dull conversation rather than exposition.

Trek sometimes gets a lot of shit for being too talky, but most of the finest moments were good actors reciting good dialogue. The bigger moments, the "action", only works when the surrounding material makes you care about what is happening.

...in my opinion, naturally.

Or, have a Federation diplotmat arrive at Vulcan to talk to Soval on the issue, hears the bad news, a heated debate (well on the Humans side) begins and Soval tried to calm him and say he will do all he can.

Better than two Vulcans just casually discussing the end of the Federation like they're discussing what they had for lunch.

We don't know the full context of the scene yet, where it's positioned in the film or what it's positioned with. There's more than one way to write a "balanced" mix of action and introspection.

While I'd agree that formal Vulcan-on-Vulcan convos have the potential to be dull as ditchwater and perhaps would be better avoided in a theatrical film or TV show aimed at Joe Public, surely a fan film aimed at the ultra hardcore Trekkies is the one place where you can get away with it?

very true

Don't do it, Gaz! Don't drink the "it's a fanfilm" Kool Aid!

I think that maybe they shouldn't have rushed the Vulcan scene out. Maybe wait til your done with principal photography and some CGI, then do a proper trailer. There is simply no context to really judge the scene beyond what is there. It may end up working within the context of the film. Maybe it won't.

Well, we also do have to remember that at that particular moment, it was a smart move to get something tangible out right there and then.

 

[Amaris]

...
And thank God he was. Some of his ideas, like the Dominion War only lasting 3 episodes, were laughable at best.

While I agree a 3 episode Dominion War would have been a bit silly, I would have been happier with DS9 (as much as I love it), if the war would have been much shorter. Most of the war arc is tiresome for me.

That said, Axanar gives me hope because there hasn't been this huge emphasis on pewpewpew, which is a nice breath of fresh air when considering many fan films.

 

[gazomg]

very true

Don't do it, Gaz! Don't drink the "it's a fanfilm" Kool Aid!

Fret not.

I do not buy into that fanf ilm rubbish as if because its not CBS it will therefore be lesser.

In fact I have never had such high anticipation in my entire life for a trek movie, which is ironic as it comes at a time where I have never been more disillusioned due to the so called "proper trek" movies

 

[Trekkin]

It is just a fan film. And what CBS puts out are just TV series, Paramount puts out films, and Pocket puts out novels. If I typed up a trek story right now and put it up on the Pit of voles, it would just be a fanfic.

It was simply mentioned that there are cartain opportunities and restrictions depending on the formats. No one else equated fan films to rubbish, so why bring it up?

I've been haunting this thread for a few weeks now, and the conversation somehow always cycle back to Abrams movies. What's weird is that the conversation seems to get back to Abrams around the same time every day. The Paramount films haunting hour.

This might have been covered before and I'm sorry if it was, but I was wondering why Garth was picked as the sort-of jump in off point? Was he a personal favourite, was it like Bennets choice of Khan where it was thought that he offered up the best storytelling opportunities etc?

 

[gazomg]

the point is just cos its not made by paramount or whatever does not mean AXanar will not be as good.
The way "fan film" is used by some is like it is a snide belittling comment.


I personally think judging it based on prelude, and the recent clip. its as good as anything that has been made in comparison to those alternate pieces of rubbish.
Even better than some of the other movies as well

My enjoyment of a movie is not simply based on the cost of production or name value like paramount but on story, substance, script, etc

It is quite possible Axanar might disappoint or maybe be in my opinion the best trek movie ever, but to deride it solely on the fact its a fan film is wrong.

 

[F. King Daniel]

How is pointing out that as a fan film, Axanar can cater exclusively to the hardcore superfans rather than the general non-Trekkie public, deriding it?

 

[Trekkin]

It isn't. No more than saying TrekLit is also in the position to do what you're saying. And it does.

 

[fireproof78]

the point is just cos its not made by paramount or whatever does not mean AXanar will not be as good.
The way "fan film" is used by some is like it is a snide belittling comment.


I personally think judging it based on prelude, and the recent clip. its as good as anything that has been made in comparison to those alternate pieces of rubbish.
Even better than some of the other movies as well

My enjoyment of a movie is not simply based on the cost of production or name value like paramount but on story, substance, script, etc

It is quite possible Axanar might disappoint or maybe be in my opinion the best trek movie ever, but to deride it solely on the fact its a fan film is wrong.

I would not deride Axanar for being a fan film, any more than I would deride any other production for being in a particular genre, or produced by a particular company.

Fan films, for me anyway, have a certain threshold of expectation due to all my experience of critiquing, helping and judging various films over the years.

The only part of Axanar that I am waiting for is more characterization. The Vulcan clip was good in informing me regarding Soval and his character, but the rest will require more film and more context.

I'm not going to find my post but I think the term I would use for me is "cautiously optimistic." I have seen grand fan film plans and productions in the past only for them to taper and die. So, I'm willing to wait.

 

[Amaris]

^ This is why I maintain the position that the clip we saw was supposed to be enough to get us interested if we weren't already. I like that they showed us a talking scene rather than a space battles scene. It kind of gives me an idea of their mindset regarding the story. They want to show that off (also space battles take time and are expensive).

 

[Phantom]

While I agree a 3 episode Dominion War would have been a bit silly, I would have been happier with DS9 (as much as I love it), if the war would have been much shorter. Most of the war arc is tiresome for me.

That said, Axanar gives me hope because there hasn't been this huge emphasis on pewpewpew, which is a nice breath of fresh air when considering many fan films.

The extended DW arc allowed Trek to break new ground and do epic long-form serial/semi-serial storytelling the series had never been allowed to do before. It was able to get into the characters' skin and really put them through their paces. The end result was quite possibly Trek's "finest hour"...certainly the best of the modern Trek to that point.

 

[Amaris]

While I agree a 3 episode Dominion War would have been a bit silly, I would have been happier with DS9 (as much as I love it), if the war would have been much shorter. Most of the war arc is tiresome for me.

That said, Axanar gives me hope because there hasn't been this huge emphasis on pewpewpew, which is a nice breath of fresh air when considering many fan films.

The extended DW arc allowed Trek to break new ground and do epic long-form serial/semi-serial storytelling the series had never been allowed to do before. It was able to get into the characters' skin and really put them through their paces. The end result was quite possibly Trek's "finest hour"...certainly the best of the modern Trek to that point.

For me, it was a tedious, already well worn trope ran into the ground. There are some great episodes that occurred under that arc, It's Only A Paper Moon for one, but I still generally avoid the Dominion War episodes.

 

[Phantom]

For me, it was a tedious, already well worn trope ran into the ground. There are some great episodes that occurred under that arc, It's Only A Paper Moon for one, but I still generally avoid the Dominion War episodes.

How can it be a 'trope for Trek when Trek had never done such a thing before? Individual battles yes. Come right up to the edge of but avert at the last minute yes.

Full out, "it's either us or them warfare"? No. That was new.

And it was a fascinating joyride as "perfect people" were forced to confront head on a decidedly imperfect universe.

They came darn close to doing exactly what Admiral Ramirez fears in his address to the Federation in Axanar: "destroying the dream..." You could probably make the case that they did, given Sisko's action in "In the Pale Moonlight" or just about anything Section 31 got up to.

 

[Warped9]

So far Axanar intrigues me in its apparent approch to the space war idea. Yes, we'll see some ship battles and such, but the main thrust of it seems to be character drama.

F/x aside the most compelling parts of an episode like "Balance Of Terror" wasn't seeing ships firing weapons and getting blown up, but the drama that went on between the characters as they wrestled with problems arising and the issues they faced.

From what I've seen so far it shows signs of something written by someone with an adult mindset whereas I find a lot of blockbuster popcorn flicks seeming to have been written by someone with an adolescent mindset. It isn't that nice f/x aren't appreciated, but that the creators are stressing story and delivery over flashy visuals.

A good story well told can overcome and even elevate middle-of-the-road f/x. The slickest f/x in the world cannot salvage poor writing.