Star Trek: Axanar

[Phantom]

So Phantom, you think because an anonymous troll makes libelous claims that are clearly (to anyone who does even the most basic of reading) false, IO9 should address them? Seriously?

According to you, every troll on the Internet now creates an "obligation" for every journalist to address said troll's bullshit claims.

I do not think that is what Phantom was trying to say. I read his comments merely as agreeing with Ryan Thomas Riddle's about responsible, investigative journalism and citing actual examples of investigative journalism and stories that support is position.

A journalists obligation is to use his head. If the troll is anonymous and doesn't provide any proof, then the journalist dismisses it. That is all that is needed. There is no "claim", there is only Internet bullshit. A journalist doesn't have to give any credence to unsubstantiated trash talk.

Respectfully, I disagree. How would a journalist worth reading know what claims are "unsubstantiated trash talk" without first investigating them?

It is up to the journalist to decide if the claim is worth investigating and if they choose to do so, they then do their due diligence to verify the information they are seeking and reporting about.

I agree that there is a very libelous taste to some of the things being said but that shouldn't immediately mean then that the claims are not worth investigating or proving/disproving.

I would associate myself completely with Karzak's remarks above and expand on them thus:

Very libellous if proven untrue. The producers are hoping to use the project as a springboard into professional producer work. Any accusation of financial shenanigans if proven will quite effectively torpedo that.

As I said above: ball's in "Jeremy"s court.

Red Omega is engaging in a bit of a priori reasoning: he has decided that the charges are false and therefore no investigation is needed. That's not how it works, Red.

This is why I despise how the line between "journalist" and "blogger" has become excessively muddy in the past decade. Yes, it's wonderful that everyone has a voice now, should they chose to use it. However, when people who claim to be journalists filter out certain random voices based on a pre-established personal agenda without the proper fact-checking have greatly contributed to the degradation of the internet. It's oftentimes nearly impossible to wade through all the pigshit and find the nugget of truth in there. It's almost not worth it any more.

Indeed, the "democratisation" of knowledge (aka the "Wikkipedia concept") is doing great damage to the dissemination of factual knowlege. With the elimination of gatekeepers to prevent both general vandals and the True Believers from editing information to fit their tastes, the addage "We have more data than ever, but are far less informed." has never been truer.

 

[Maurice]

^^^It comes across as mocking.

 

[Barbreader]

If I say you beat your wife, were "questions raised" about domestic violence? No, because there is no basis for the claims.

In point of fact, they were. Depending on the exact situation, different responses would ensue. If you called the police and said the perp has been beating his wife, the police might not be able to do much more than send an officer to make a "welfare check" on the wife and attempt to solicit more evidence (your claim being evidence also, if weak evidence). If your clain was that the wife was being beaten right now, you'd better believe there'd be a Code 3 response (given a crime in the midst of commission).

Of course, if you report such a thing falsely, you can expect to have your own visit from the authorities.

And the accuser was anonymous, and thus unwilling to stand by his claims, which were basically made up lies. Sorry, you don't get to say his claims are worth being answered.

Many many scandals have been exposed using an anonymous initial report. Deep Throat brought down the Nixon administration and no one knew his identity until just a few years ago.

Io9 can't be blamed for not including the issue in it's original article because it wasn't aware of it. Now that the claim has been made, if io9 wants to be seen as journalistically credible (as opposed to being a "tabloid"), then it can and in fact should investigate further.

It is also incumbent upon "Jeremy" at this point to also "put up or shut up". If he has documentary evidence of wrongdoing or witnesses to proffer, now is the time.

If he does not, then that pretty much rubbishes the claim.

ETA: Several people have said effectively that they don't feel that an investigation is needed. My only reply to that was that (at one point) shareholders in Bernie Madoff's funds and Enron said the same thing.

Not that this is anything approaching either in scope, but a million dollars is a lot of money. If there was fraud, it would be felony fraud and someone could go to jail over it, if proven.

The ball is in "Jeremy"s court now.

I don't know where to start, so I'm just going to pick out a few of these.

(1) If you make a report to the police THEY know who you are, (or at least can trace where you are calling from) and yes, if you report falsely you can be in trouble. That's DIFFERENT THAN an internet troll who quotes no source and doesn't identify themselves. In fact, your example shows the opposite of what you cite it for.

(2) Woodward and Bernstein knew who Deep Throat was, even though they protected his identity. AGAIN, the person doing the investigation based on the tip KNEW who the tipper was. Again, shows the opposite of what you cite it for.

(3) Madoff's claimed results were statistically impossible. I was personally involved in that matter, and threatened with a lawsuit because of my opposition to him (I have a degree in Economics from Yale and worked on Wall Street before going to law school and working on financially-related legal issues.) Happily, that lawsuit settled immediately when he turned himself into authorities. Other fiduciaries here in New York were being threatened based on NOT being able to reproduce his results. The method he claimed to be using simply made no sense. However, if you are not intimately familiar with investment and game theory and statistics as well as law, and most people aren't, I guess it wasn't obvious.

A similar situation for a filmmaker would be if that person would have to e.g, claim to need $500 million to make a film (a larger budget than most summer blockbusters) or claim they could guarantee millions in box office on a film where they could not charge admission, or other information which is entirely outside both the general run of both pros and do-it-yourself types.

IN CONTRAST Axanar has continuously reported how they are spending money, including admitting to failures which resulted in unanticipated costs.

If Jeremy or somebody here wants to claim foul, they have far more data than I had fighting Madoff, and should be able to show their claims with little trouble. A claim with no showing of accounting mishap by a person who refuses to identify themselves is NOT similar to a call to the police, "Deep Throat" or even the Madoff situation.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Just for the record - is anyone claiming that i09 article was "journalism"?

 

[Maurice]

Just for the record - is anyone claiming that i09 article was "journalism"?

That was rather my point. Stated more bluntly, these blogs are "gossip" sites, not news. The problem I see is that a lot of people treat them as "news".

 

[BigJake]

Yes, it's rather like it's a site whose purpose is "look at this cool shot of [such-and-such]!"

Which actually seems totally fine to me, since it isn't clear to me that io9 affects to be anything more than that, and AFAICT we have segued into discussing the general practice of how investigative journalism ought to work but are none of us any longer defending the particular proposition that anything more than that needed to be said in this case.

 

[Phantom]

Just for the record - is anyone claiming that i09 article was "journalism"?

That was rather my point. Stated more bluntly, these blogs are "gossip" sites, not news. The problem I see is that a lot of people treat them as "news".

I would class them at best as "tabloid journalism", blurring the lines between the two in the way that Gebrigwas talking about.

 

[Bixby]

Axanar's new crowdfunding effort is under way, and their promo video has a new Vulcan-set scene, and visually it's gorgeous...

Not only that, but half their initial $$ goal has already been met in less than a day! (I'm amazed that some trek fans can easily make $10 000 pledges )

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K723TV7GZFQ[/yt]

 

[Ithekro]

The open crowdfunding will start at 9am PDT I think. A film in four acts.

 

[gazomg]

I am so looking forward to this.
The prelude to axanar was better than anything abrams has ever done

I dont think I have looked forward to any film in my entire life so much.

 

[DCR]

They're already up to almost 160,000 and still in the first 24 hours.

 

[Kelso]

The prelude to axanar was better than anything abrams has ever done.

Utter nonsense.

 

[Warped9]

The prelude to axanar was better than anything abrams has ever done.

Seconded.

 

[beamMe]

The prelude to axanar was better than anything abrams has ever done.

Utter nonsense.

Agreed.

(And I've donated to the Axanar-production and like the results.)

 

[Disco]

I am so looking forward to this.
The prelude to axanar was better than anything abrams has ever done

I dont think I have looked forward to any film in my entire life so much.

I don't agree it beat ST09 or STID but it's great seeing quality fan productions.

 

[Bixby]

Who's the actress that played the Vulcan minister?

 

[Mudd]

The prelude to axanar was better than anything abrams has ever done

 

[gazomg]

The prelude to axanar was better than anything abrams has ever done.

Utter nonsense.

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine, and I genuinely am looking forward to axanar more than anything trek related in years.

Keep your alternate reality abrams stuff, its simply not for me.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I am so looking forward to this.
The prelude to axanar was better than anything abrams has ever done

I dont think I have looked forward to any film in my entire life so much.

I am glad you are excited. But don't oversell.

 

[Karzak]

I would tend to agree. Abrams has done a lot in his career outside of Star Trek. And even if I didn't think the two Trek films were superb (which I do), I'd never submit that a fan film was anywhere near as good (let alone better) than any of Abrams' work.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, yes, but have some perspective.