Referring back to Post 531, I still maintain Spock's first name is, "Damn It".
Rather like "Sod-off Baldric" from Blackadder III![]()


This is a little off-topic (and I'm sure the topic's been done to death) but was Cumberbatch's Khan really a villain? I don't know. Was he an antagonist? Absolutely. He caused the destruction of the Kelvin archive, he was responsible for the death of Pike, he tried to destroy Starfleet Headquarters. In all of those cases, he did not act until he was provoked. Was he a terrorist? Yes. I think this is kind of a gray area which makes the character in that film all the more fascinating.
On the other hand, Marcus was just a mustache-twirling villain, showing his power, making Khan design weapons of mass destruction, building a ship in secret to start a war and not letting anyone get in his way. Separately, Khan and Kirk forced his hand.
Marcus was, to put it simply, a warmonger. Khan was just looking after his people.
According to Spock, when he was in power he was committing mass genocide against beings that he deemed to be "inferior." And Khan makes reference to "continuing the work that we were doing before we were banished," which presumably was the same thing.
So yes, he was not a good guy. And Adm. Marcus wasn't really a mustache-twirler. He believed that war with the Klingon's was inevitable (a not unreasonable assumption either) and that it was better to start a war now while the Federation still had the advantage. All of the deaths that he caused were unfortunate but necessary "collateral damage" in his mind. Weller compared Marcus to Gen. Curtis Lemay, and it's a pretty apt comparison (his attitude towards the Klingons is not all that different from Lemay's attitude towards the Soviets/Chinese). He's a fanatic, but it's a fanaticism built out of fears that have a basis in reality.
One of the Big reasons I like being here is the kinds of ideas and opinions you both laid down in these posts. I confess, I never gave Khan much further thought, Villian-wise, and Marcus was just a PowerThug to be taken down. But your Posts made me think and consider further the nature of the two Antagonists. Caused me to give the Characters the respect and acknowledgement they deserve, and not just slot them in my mind with only "surface" traits and motivations. Thank you, both, Campe98 and Khan444, for giving me a chance to further reflect on aspects of this Thing I/We love so much!
