Game Of Thrones Season 5 TV Only Discussion (Spoilers)

[Locutus of Bored]

It preserves the shock of the ending until he returns to set. It doesn't have to last all the way until the new season starts airing, just until it begins filming. People will be mostly done with the articles and reaction videos and Tweets about it by then.

You actually don't want to drag out his death for too long if it's not going to be permanent, as it might alienate some viewers who were invested in his character.

 

[DigificWriter]

Preserving a secret like this for less than a month just isn't worth that kind of effort.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

We'll see. I've got a good feeling he's coming back. Too many dominoes are lined up behind him for his character to just disappear from the narrative at this point.

BTW, on a separate note, it's kind of nice to have book readers and non-book readers alike in the dark on where the show will go with Jon's character (among other things) from here for the first time. Gives things an extra sense of mystery and makes it more of a shared experience.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Shame!... Shame!



So was that all Lena Headey in those scenes? I can imagine she'd have been up for it, but in certain shots it definitely looked like her face was CGI'd onto another body.
The only reason I can think of for that is that in real life she's got quite a lot of tattoos. I would've thought you could cover them with make up or whatever, but there really were a few shots were her face didn't look right I thought.

I think it's more exercising a no nudity clause. The body definitely seemed fuller than Lena's, at least judging by what she looks like in other stuff as she's got a wiry frame.


EDIT TO ADD:
http://www.ew.com/microsites/longform/got/

On the set in Old Town, Headey munches on a slice of pizza, looking rather indescribable. (Literally, we’re not allowed to describe her—it’s a spoiler.) It’s Headey’s birthday, and she’s preparing to shoot a top secret Cersei nude scene. She won’t be performing in her birthday suit, however; a body double is being used instead. (Fun fact for the kids: Headey dubbed her double’s pubic wig “rice catcher.”) “I obviously chose not to be naked for many reasons, but we want it to work beautifully,” says the actress, who was cheered by Dinklage and Hill, who visited on their day off to sing her “Happy Birthday.”

 

[Locutus of Bored]

If they were just going to defeat and kill Stannis in this episode anyway, wouldn't it have been better to have him die because he made the nobler decision to not sacrifice his daughter in the previous episode, and that decision cost him the war because he did not honor the Lord of Light? Have him find some bit of redemption in the fact that his love for his daughter outweighed his ambitions?

As it stands, when Ramsay's Rohirrim rode his armies down, I didn't care, because I had nothing invested in Stannis any more after last week. He was always an asshole, but killing Shireen pushed him way over-the-edge. So it was just one irredeemable piece of shit destroying another, and I felt nothing during the entire scene. Seems like a missed opportunity to me.

 

[Cyke101]

If there were even a chance of him coming back, he wouldn't have answered the interviewer's question as candidly as he did.

I hope he stays dead. Any resurrection would cheapen that final scene.

I'm the complete opposite. I'd feel that his death now would cheapen the whole experience and make it all feel pointless, while taking away one of the last few likeable and interesting characters left in Westeros. I think he's way too important to take out of rotation after five seasons of building him up. I know the books and the show are about challenging those kinds of storytelling preconceptions, but sometimes the audience deserves to have their loyalty to a character rewarded too.

BUT -- I'm sure I'm not the only one that remembers Ronald D. Moore and Katee Sackhoff giving "candid" interviews about another character's death a few years ago here.

Hell, just this season, the GoT showrunners might have pulled a minor rope-a-dope by listing Joseph Mawle (Benjen Stark) in the casting notes for Episode 8, leading fans to believe he might show up among the Free Folk or as a White Walker, and then he never appeared. And then in this episode they played that Benjen clip in the "Previously On..." segment to give you the impression he might be coming back again, only to have it serve a completely different purpose. So while they're not playing JJ Abrams level obfuscation games, they're not above a little audience trickery to build excitement or preserve a storyline.

Thanks to the "Previously On..." clips, I was really hoping for the return of Syrio Forel.

 

[Brolan]

If Jon's death is permanent it does call into question the entire Wall storyline and even the character of Jon Snow. The only likely outcome of his death is a war between the Watch and Wildlings that weakens or destroys the Wall.

If Martin just wanted the Wall to collapse there was no need for the storyline, it could have been handled by Ravens from the North and comments from other characters. Seems like a huge investment in time for both the author and readers/watchers wasted.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

That was a brutal final episode. Most of the deaths were credible. It seemed pretty clear to me that Stannis was dead. There would be little point of him being alive now since his army was destroyed. I think Millisandre was planning for him to die the whole time and was leading him along.

Sansa and Theon were assuming the snow was piled up high enough to survive the fall, right? That wasn't suicide? Arya's fate seemed like she might have died too but at the very least she's pretty screwed.

Jon Snow was the last character I expected to die. But this doesn't make his journey useless because now there are wildlings on the other side of the fence ready to fight against the walkers.

The show's running low on protagonists.

 

[Saul]

Well shit.

I thought Jon would make it because there is basically no one else to root for.
That's the end of our time at the wall then too.

 

[Reverend]

If they were just going to defeat and kill Stannis in this episode anyway, wouldn't it have been better to have him die because he made the nobler decision to not sacrifice his daughter in the previous episode, and that decision cost him the war because he did not honor the Lord of Light? Have him find some bit of redemption in the fact that his love for his daughter outweighed his ambitions?

As it stands, when Ramsay's Rohirrim rode his armies down, I didn't care, because I had nothing invested in Stannis any more after last week. He was always an asshole, but killing Shireen pushed him way over-the-edge. So it was just one irredeemable piece of shit destroying another, and I felt nothing during the entire scene. Seems like a missed opportunity to me.

You wanted heroism, nobility and meaningful deaths? What show have you been watching this whole time!?

I think the point of this has as much to do with Melisandre being full of crap than anything else. Though Stannis' story does have a consistent theme of hubris throughout and this was simply the logical culmination of that. Also, it allowed Brienne to fulfil her vows to Renly at the cost (for now anyway) of her vows to Catelyn. So it helps to advance her arc a little further.


As for the Wall, one assumes that Melisandre and Davos will be sticking around Castle Black to witness the inevitable shit storm between the crows and the wildlings. I really can't see how Jon Snow could possibly have survived that.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Thanks to the "Previously On..." clips, I was really hoping for the return of Syrio Forel.

I was halfway expecting one of the "faces" that Arya pulled off the "life pays for death" person as being that of Syrio. That would have been the one final punch in the gut for Arya, knowing that her Water Dancing Master sacrificed himself so that she could continue her training. It would have been the primary driving force for her to truly become "no one".

As it stands now, since that didn't happen, I'm still banking on Jaquin eventually revealed as having been Syrio, but we'll just have to wait to see if that ever actually plays out.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

If they were just going to defeat and kill Stannis in this episode anyway, wouldn't it have been better to have him die because he made the nobler decision to not sacrifice his daughter in the previous episode, and that decision cost him the war because he did not honor the Lord of Light? Have him find some bit of redemption in the fact that his love for his daughter outweighed his ambitions?

As it stands, when Ramsay's Rohirrim rode his armies down, I didn't care, because I had nothing invested in Stannis any more after last week. He was always an asshole, but killing Shireen pushed him way over-the-edge. So it was just one irredeemable piece of shit destroying another, and I felt nothing during the entire scene. Seems like a missed opportunity to me.

You wanted heroism, nobility and meaningful deaths? What show have you been watching this whole time!?

A show that doesn't generally make me say "Meh" when a leading character and plotline of four seasons, good or evil, comes to an abrupt end. Which is what happened here. Like I said, it was one irredeemable piece of shit destroying the army of another, and it meant nothing to me.

And while I like Brienne, her crusade to avenge Renly never meant anything to me.

 

[davejames]

I think it's more exercising a no nudity clause. The body definitely seemed fuller than Lena's, at least judging by what she looks like in other stuff as she's got a wiry frame.

Yeah that stuck out to me too. Headey has always appeared to be much more thin and fit than whoever they used for her double.

That was a brutal final episode. Most of the deaths were credible. It seemed pretty clear to me that Stannis was dead. There would be little point of him being alive now since his army was destroyed. I think Millisandre was planning for him to die the whole time and was leading him along.

I don't know, she appeared to be pretty shocked and surprised at the end at how things went down, and I don't think it was all just an act for the people at the Wall.

As for Stannis, while it did feel like of a bit of an anticlimax after all the incredibly long time we spent with him and his campaign to take the throne, I also couldn't help but be glad to see things go so badly for him after his actions in the previous episode, and to see everything end in such a wimper.

It was still a pretty rewarding to watch even in it's own way, I think.

As for the Wall, one assumes that Melisandre and Davos will be sticking around Castle Black to witness the inevitable shit storm between the crows and the wildlings. I really can't see how Jon Snow could possibly have survived that.

Oh I forgot about Davos. So I guess there is still at least ONE person at the Wall worth caring about, even if I'm not sure he's really interesting enough to want to visit too often.

 

[Orphalesion]

You wanted heroism, nobility and meaningful deaths? What show have you been watching this whole time!?

That's a bit overstating it in the same way as saying "In GoT everyone can die !"

There's plenty of heroism and nobility in GoT; look at Brienne, Podrick, Tyrion, Arya, Sam, Gilly, Davos , Daenerys, Greyworm...

There's plenty of meaningful deaths such as Septa Mordane and Syrio sacrificing themselves so that Sansa and Arya could escape all the way in season 1.
Robb's death was not meaningless, it was him breaking a vow that led to his demise, after it was established that he despised oath breakers. Ned's death was not meaningless it kicked off a huge part of the plot.

Olus the show and the books both love redemption; the show kind of butchered Jaime's redemption arc, but look at Sansa who grew fro a self-absorbed brat into a true daughter of her noble parents or Theon who started off as an utter a*hole, betrayed a guy he saw as his brother and killed two innocent children, and who just defied someone who has broken him to the point of almost complete slavery in order to safe another person from suffering.

There are some rotten characters, calamities and meaningless deaths but overall I have the feeling that people overemphasize that part of Game of Thrones.

 

[Cyrus]

Sansa and Theon were assuming the snow was piled up high enough to survive the fall, right? That wasn't suicide?

I was wondering about that too. Was it a suicide to avoid more torture, or an attempt to escape by somehow landing in soft snow? I think it is the latter. Hopefully they knew what they were doing since this was their home.

 

[FPAlpha]

To everybody calling the Wall storyline done after Jon's stabbing and are quitting.. well.. have you paid attention to the show/books at all?

George doesn't play fan favorites.. he's the biggest and most merciless killer of all because he doesn't discriminate. Make a big mistake and live (or die) with the consequences.

Even if Jon is really dead (i have my doubts too.. the presence of Melisandre and the established fact that people can be resurrected from fatal wounds is too convenient) the story would continue on.

The White Walkers will still attack the Wall at some point, the Night's Watch will defend it (maybe with the help of the Wildlings at which point they may regret killing Jon) or they will simply abandon their post and cast off their black garb. I place little faith that they will honor their oath as they have been breaking it continously over the past seasons and there is no one to put them to justice for breaking their oath so it would be easy to just go (it's not like they're branded on the forehead to make them easily recognizable).

I like Kit Harrington and i like the character.. i'd be sad to really see him go but no more sad to see Ned Stark, Khal Drogo or Robb Stark die, the show continued on after their deaths. Events still unfolded, people close to them adapted and changed and moved on.

It's like the metaphor Tyrion has been using.. the Wheel that keeps turning and to me it's an apt metaphor for the whole world. Single people don't matter, shit will happen either way (just differently).

As i was spoiled by Wikipedia about the stabbing and Walk of Shame my only WTF moment was Jaqen H'Gar.. that really took my by surprise but it hammered home what the Faceless Men are really about. That was some cool shit and maybe Arya, now that the most important people from her list are gone, is finally able to become a Faceless Man (after she makes it through the blindness of course).

Maybe now would be a good time to really start reading the books if it's true that the next one will be released before season 6 starts

 

[Mach5]

What happened with Stannis and his men must be one of the worst, and the most unsatisfying cases of anticlimax I've ever encountered in fiction. It's just plain retarded.

Unless he isn't really dead, but at this point, I'm far passed caring.

 

[Orphalesion]

To everybody calling the Wall storyline done after Jon's stabbing and are quitting.. well.. have you paid attention to the show/books at all?

George doesn't play fan favorites.. he's the biggest and most merciless killer of all because he doesn't discriminate. Make a big mistake and live (or die) with the consequences.

Yes we have and fact is GRRM doesn't kill important characters, unless their death advances the storyline.

Ned= Killed to kick off the War of the Five Kings
Catlynn/Robb=Killed to end the War of the Five Kings/making the situation worse for the remaining Starks, originally GRRRM meant to have a time skip of five years after that event, but decided differently to make more money....erm...I mean to explore the characters more.

All the other characters killed were bit-players who had been made memorable to the audience/reader with a few scenes or lines.

What plot line would Jon's death advance? In what way would it enhance the story?

Even a story so "unconventional" like GoT is hyped to be can't have things happen "just because" otherwise we have a random events plot, like Dorne was, bad fanfic levels.

 

[Starbreaker]

No way John is gone. I guarantee you Kit will have his long hair all summer. Having Melisandre enter the camp at the end is a pretty good foreshadowing that she's about to necromance John.

 

[Skywalker]

Jon will be back. I'm not worried about it.

Melisandre wasn't making all that stuff up or stringing Stannis along, she just read the prophecies wrong. Jon is the Lord's Chosen, not Stannis.