Well, I'd sooner root for White Walkers to come kill everybody than for people who murder their own children for an advantage to prevail.
Game Of Thrones Season 5 TV Only Discussion (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Tom
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Well, I'd sooner root for White Walkers to come kill everybody than for people who murder their own children for an advantage to prevail.
None of which makes it any better. The guy executed his own daughter. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Like Joffrey and Ramsey, Stannis is now basically irredeemable. At least the mother had a shred of humanity in her and tried to stop it.
Not burning his daughter alive, returning to the south and bending the knee to Tommen? It's that easy. A lot of the problems in this series wouldn't exist if a couple of characters could swallow their pride a bit. I'm not sure if Stannis knows that Kevan is Hand of the King now. But Kevan is a cool guy who, for the sake of peace and stability would likely counsel Tommen to accept Stannis' surrender.
Alternatively they could Stannis could spend winter at the wall, lending his strength to the Night's Watch. Sure, there is no telling how long the winter will last, but that's life in Westeros.
As for the "good reason" he believes in...well the leeches killing the three/two kings is a bit fishy, did Mellisandre's leeches make Lady Olenna conspire with Little Finger? Or make Tywin orchestrate the Red Wedding? Or was t a happy coincidence?
A lot of the magic in Martin's world falls into the category "Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane" and the leeches definitely are in that category.
Bottom line is, Stannis does not need to be King, he wants to be King and he has sacrificed his daughter to that desire, and to nothing else.
You're misunderstanding Stannis's base motivations. He believes he is entitled to be King and that he is the rightful heir, because he is. Tommen is bastard-born and lacks any of the blood that the Baratheon claim was built upon. Stannis is a man of law and justice. In his narrow interpretation of that law, he not only should be king, he must be king.
They really screwed up with the leeches. Even Stannis (in the books) said "two is NOT three", as he had a hard time believing it himself. Then, when Balon Greyjoy all of a sudden took a swan dive down to the rocks on Pyke from a sudden gust of wind, that pushed him into the realm of belief. That final event was one of the main catalysts in getting him to start really believing in R'llhor. They totally missed it in the show and he wound up simply looking like a 5-star douche nozzle, acting out of pure desperation. 
Anyone got odds on what Davos does when he gets back and finds out what Stannis did? His "always fair and just" man-crush will flutter away like the wind, methinks, and he is likely to turn on His Grace, now, regardless if Stannis is victorious at Winterfell or not.
Anyone got odds on what Davos does when he gets back and finds out what Stannis did? His "always fair and just" man-crush will flutter away like the wind, methinks, and he is likely to turn on His Grace, now, regardless if Stannis is victorious at Winterfell or not.
The recent happenings with Stannis demand a revisit to Renly and Littlefinger's warnings to Ned supporting Stannis' claim to the throne.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzYj3gqPaJ4[/yt]
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2sTq_uBoLs[/yt]
Renly and Littlefinger could see the disaster Stannis would be coming a mile away.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzYj3gqPaJ4[/yt]
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2sTq_uBoLs[/yt]
Renly and Littlefinger could see the disaster Stannis would be coming a mile away.
Kinda like the guy that tried to kill a little boy by pushing him out a window for catching him fucking his sister?
I could see Renly knowing, simply because he's Stannis' brother and knows him quite well, obviously.
Littlefinger, however, was poisoning Stannis' pond with Ned simply because putting Stannis on the throne would operate to cross-purposes with Littlefinger's greater agenda. It's clear now that he's trying to consolidate power from the Eyrie to the North using Sansa's claims. He's got a claim already as Lord of Harrenhall from Joffrey, smack dab in the middle near the God's Eye and is probably going to shoot for the rest of the Riverlands next through Sansa's blood-ties with the Tully's. If "the crown" isn't careful, he's going to wind up owning 2/3 of Westeros before they actually take notice what he's done.
Littlefinger, however, was poisoning Stannis' pond with Ned simply because putting Stannis on the throne would operate to cross-purposes with Littlefinger's greater agenda. It's clear now that he's trying to consolidate power from the Eyrie to the North using Sansa's claims. He's got a claim already as Lord of Harrenhall from Joffrey, smack dab in the middle near the God's Eye and is probably going to shoot for the rest of the Riverlands next through Sansa's blood-ties with the Tully's. If "the crown" isn't careful, he's going to wind up owning 2/3 of Westeros before they actually take notice what he's done.
The right thing? He's gone nuts.
Stannis believes in doing the 'right thing' the problem is he has a rigid devotion to it. He's in his own world now.
That means if he can sacrifice his daughter to fire, then later when he is king, he'll probably show little mercy to a victim of something, just because the law does not support them.
He's what you'd call very "legalistic".
Stannis believes in doing the 'right thing' the problem is he has a rigid devotion to it. He's in his own world now.
That means if he can sacrifice his daughter to fire, then later when he is king, he'll probably show little mercy to a victim of something, just because the law does not support them.
He's what you'd call very "legalistic".
Heh...well, yeah. But, to be an obtusely perverse devil's advocate, it could be argued that, by going in a coma and losing his ability to walk, Bran's mind and body started adjusting to this loss of function by opening up to the abilities of a green-seer and psionic access to the Three-Eyed Crow, which could then possibly further lead to his being able to assist in the war against the Others. It is possible that he never would have embraced such ability so quickly if it were not for his physical impairment. Just like most humans adapt to the loss of one sensory input by boosting the effectiveness of the others. So, in a way, Jaime might have done Bran a real favor and conceivably saved the world.
Wouldn't that be amusing?
It's not about being king, its about saving the realm from the White Walkers. Stannis is convinced, rightly or wrongly, that he is the servant of the Lord of Light and is chosen to defeat the White Walkers, in the same way that they were defeated by a great hero the last time they attacked.
I think that the show has clearly established, not just this season but right from the start, how much he cared for Shireen. He loved her, she was his heir, this was not an easy decision but he believes he is doing - sacrificing a daughter - what is needed to save the Seven Kingdoms.
For that reason any comparison of Stannis to Jeffrey or Ramsey is as shallow as it gets.
As Mel said, the only hell is the one that they are living in now; so one could say that Shireen has been let out of hell, so she's better off... I think not any more of a stretch than what you wrote
Do you mean me? No I understand that, that's the very absis of Stannis' character and I would have to be blind not to understand that he perceives it that way. I however do think that it is is nothing but a giant, smelly heap of bollox.
Stannis can phrase it as nicely as he wants, reciting this claima and that, but bottom line is, he wants power. Who cares if he wants to be King because he thinks he has the right do. So do half a dozen other people it seems, for various reasons.
He does not need to, he could at any point back down and would likely still get to rule the Baratheon holdings in thw Stormlands.
What I meant was, since Kelthaz seemed to say "Stannis did what he had to do to save Westeros from the White Walkers" Sorry if I misinterpreted that, btw.
No he does not need to be King to do that and Mellisandre knows that, she supports him so that she can stick close to him until the needed moment. And if Stannis reason for all this was really so that he can save Westeros from the Long Night, well then he shouldn't be running around wasting the lives of his Soldiers on costly sieges anyway.
Buttom line is still that Stannis wants to be King, but doesn't need to be King.
Along those lines, who does Stannis think will follow him on his Throne now that he butchered his only child?
Good point. That works too.
As Mel said, the only hell is the one that they are living in now; so one could say that Shireen has been let out of hell, so she's better off... I think not any more of a stretch than what you wrote
I've clearly been reading too much GRRM lately. I naturally assume the connection and solution will be more absurdly byzantine and convoluted than it probably ought to be.
You are still thinking of this as a Game of Thrones (well, to be fair, that is the title
) but it's much more than that; Stannis has been to the Wall, he knows what is coming down on the realms of man.
You are still thinking of this as a Game of Thrones (well, to be fair, that is the title
Well exactly, so he should know better than run around fighting petty civil wars instead of joining his army with that of the other Seven Kingdoms so that they have a bigge chance against the White Walkers.
But then he wouldn't get to sit on the big, uncomfortable chair. And after all he is the one who "deserves" it, and all the other people who claim they "deserve it" are just filthy liars who will be cleansed in the flames of the Lord of Light.
Probably woudn't have been the wisest move then to not call out the Baratheon kids as the product of incest the minute he found out about it. Was there ever a reason given why Stannis just turned tail and ran away instead of staking his claim on the throne? Or why he didn't come straight back to King's Landing once Robert had passed away?
Oh, totally that guy too. I don't care that he went back for Brienne and saved her, Jaime's done plenty of awful things too (like, oh, I don't know, raping his sister over the corpse of their dead ibred son) that basically make him an irredeemable asshole, no matter how likeable he is or how much he looks like Aaron Eckhart with the shorter haircut.
Yes, because everyone else vying for the Iron Throne will welcome him with open arms and agree to put aside their differences so they can go and fight the White Walkers together.
I understand your sentiment towards Stannis; he burned his daughter alive at the stake, but your argument for holding that sentiment doesn't hold water when you look at things from within the context of the world they live in.
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