Focusing on the Lower Ranks.

[Autistoid]

Alright a real short and simple thread dedicated to the need for the next Series to not focus on bridge officers.

This is based on the idea that the STar trek universe itself needs more exploration. (We all know how to get to Cardassia, but has anyone seen a bathroom?)

1) a) Casting younger actors, acting youthful makes far more sense when your lead cast aren't in charge of a full star ship.

b) Casting Older actors and exploring what it means to be an unambitious family man also has it's appeal.

2) If we believe in the star trek universe as a coherent vision we should have faith enough that even being in charge of a cargo bay should be interesting. If not being on the bridge is boring, it's likely a failure to envision a truly interesting future.

3) Conflict among officers is far more believable when they are juniors, allowing for more character freedom. TNG suffered from this immensely, how do you make all of your leading cast overachieving supermen and still relate to your average person. DS9 and VOY just bypassed starfleet all together however we don't need to rewrite the book to make it interesting.

4) If ambition and career advancement is a large part of plot and character development, where better to start than at the bottom. Hearing the 2nd in command of a ship complain about getting his own vessel is weak. Hearing about the star ensign falling from the captains grace, or how an physicist struggles to get command recognition is dynamic.

5)Focusing on the bridge and senior staff leads to cliche's. There's no way around it, the traditional bridge layout etc, leads to a mountain of cliche's just because that is what were familiar with. How better to shake up the mix than to shake up this element.
Cliche's revolving around the bridge.
a) The captain is an expert of everything.
b) The senior data type can solve every problem with deux machina.
c) If people get hurt they will be red shirts.
d) Excessive political ramblings always occur on the bridge.

6) Focusing on the lower ranks allow for better depth of exploration and away teams. Creating a more dynamic vision of Away teams I think is needed.

What training do these people get?
How are people selected for ultra dangerous missions?
How does a character react when he has to watch a friend die?
What strategies do away teams use?

7) A sense of danger is much easier to achieve. When your fully engaged in a cast of red shirts excitement can happen in every episode. People can get killed, demoted, fired etc. There's no need to contrive evil Admirals, have your 1st in command act out of character for just one episode, or rely on a reset switch.

8) Not focusing on a bridge crew can keep things more fluid. You can replace cast members, switch plots, diverge plots, or even spend half a season making the show an anthology.

 

[DavidGutierrez]

Sounds great to me!

Basically, "Lower Decks" meets The West Wing. Or, Young Justice! Very like the latter, I think it would still be important to have the senior staff appear semi-regularly, since they would be the main characters' department heads.

This concept would require the showrunners being okay with basically turning Star Trek into an office drama. It would require writers who could find drama in minutiae.

But, this is basically awesome.

 

[Autistoid]

Sounds great to me!

Basically, "Lower Decks" meets The West Wing. Or, Young Justice! Very like the latter, I think it would still be important to have the senior staff appear semi-regularly, since they would be the main characters' department heads.

This concept would require the showrunners being okay with basically turning Star Trek into an office drama. It would require writers who could find drama in minutiae.

But, this is basically awesome.

Yeah there would still need to be senior officers commanding the juniors, as well as plenty of chief types talking about the good old days.

Also if the show survived you'd have more than a few people being promoted to the higher ranks.

You could still show the bridge, however I like the idea of never ever showing the captain(and make a insider joke of how the captain is a god)

Although I don't think of it as office like at all.

If I had to pick one series it'd be from the earth to the moon.

Made on HBO 3 years after appollo 13.

It was an anthology of engineers, hot shot pilots , politicians designers and explorers getting to the moon.

It'd be just as much hot shot pilots trying to make it to command than anything else.

But of course it'd be a diverse mix, with each episode fixating on a specific character and their dramatic life.

For example

Ep1) Top Phaser: A group of new arrivals on the Star Ship Icarus. As a chief gives the newbies an introduction to basic roles of the ship . They begin a training competition, as each new recruit needs to be posted to a section.

Ep2) Cargo Section: one of lead technical characters learns that they have been assigned to one of the Cargo Sections. Initially the lead is deeply disappointed with a seemingly uninteresting posting, however quickly learns that they have been personally attached to the section as a rat to sniff out black market trade of goods.

Ep3) Training: A graduate of marine boot camp, a young Private is introduced to Gamma Squad. I.e. Body guards for the away teams. As the young private begins tactical training, they are consumed with intense feelings of fear.

Ep4) Disgrace: A Star graduate of the Academy has been demoted to Gamma Squad section after being court marshaled for questionable behavior. The space marines collectively give the Ensign the cold shoulder.

Ep5) Mission: A genetics Specialist Baku, with a primarily academic background is sent on an away mission with Team Gamma to uncover a mystery that has gotten the attention of Starfleet intelligence.



Ep6) Stranded: Gamma Squad struggles for survival. As they wait the return of the Icarus, the squad must survive being infected by a seemingly unknown virus.

Ep7) Rejected: Upon learning of the true nature of the virus, the Squad have been disconnected from the Icarus by starfleet intelligence. Using their limited engineering knowledge the team attempt to make secret communications with officers involved in black market trade back on the Icarus.

Ep8) Meltdown: Due to an unknown occurrence the Icarus engages in emergency evac mode. Crews struggles to retake command of the ship, while a escape pod has been scent down to the planets surface.

Ep9) Return: The infected forcibly return to the ship. After learning of the true nature of the virus must decide whether to remove themselves as a threat to the ships crew or fight back.

Ep10) Transport: Specialist Baku the sole survivor of Gamma Squad's mission is being transported to a remote federation intelligence station.

 

[BillJ]

Just doesn't seem the least bit interesting to me.

 

[Autistoid]

Just doesn't seem the least bit interesting to me.

Is there any idea that you have a genuine interest in?

Anyways adding another concept to the show.


There'd be a good bit of mess hall scenes where the pecking order of divisions would be present.

Officers wouldn't eat with non coms, engineers with pilots etc.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

^ I'd say you're applying too many modern day beliefs onto Starfleet.

 

[T'Girl]

It has been point out, almost from the beginnings of Star Trek, that senior officers probably wouldn't be the ones to undertake away missions. Have a show where you have a senior lieutenant with junior officers and enlist who compose the ship's regular away team and general trouble-shooters. Other specialists from the ship would be added to the team as needed. The ship's captain and senior officers would be reoccurring characters.

 

[Overgeeked]

The "Lower Decks" episodes are great escapes and slice of life vignettes to get away from the action of the bridge officers, but that's also the trouble with lower decks stories. They generally are not where the best dramatic action takes place. A Romulan warbird decloaks in front of the ship... but our POV is with the ensign in sickbay treating another holodeck injury. The away team beams down to a planet to survey some ecological disaster... but our POV is with a Lt. Jg. working the night shift in astrometrics. There's a fierce ship-to-ship fight... but our POV is with the Lt. who's been ordered to crawl into a Jeffries Tube filled with plasma to make a repair. Okay, that last one would be a dramatic situation and worth a scene. But there goes the character. You want an engaging story, go where the action is... which is usually on the bridge and on the away teams, which is why that's where all the shows have focused for their main casts.

 

[T'Girl]

A Romulan warbird decloaks in front of the ship ...

If a (non Star Trek) show centers on doctors and nurses in a hospital ER, you don't concern the story with the administrator in a different part of the hospital.

If your focus is on the "lower decks," then the story isn't going to be about a Romulan ship decloaking, unless that's a lead in to the series main characters and what it is they're doing in the episode.

On NCIS, the main characters are employed by the US Navy, but the Secretary of the Navy is rarely seen.

Most cop shows don't feature the Chief of Police (although some do). The shows is structure around cops on the beat or detectives.

 

[Autistoid]

It has been point out, almost from the beginnings of Star Trek, that senior officers probably wouldn't be the ones to undertake away missions. Have a show where you have a senior lieutenant with junior officers and enlist who compose the ship's regular away team and general trouble-shooters. Other specialists from the ship would be added to the team as needed. The ship's captain and senior officers would be reoccurring characters.

Exactly. You'd have storys that make alot more sense .

I think it would be bettter dramatically because people would be able to relate to it more. It's put higher stakes to everything when people actually live in a world of consequence.

What a characters gets demoted how could that happen on star trek

A character dies.

A character actually has to do something they don't want to.


EDIT: away teams shouldn't be done by bridge officers it's just dumb.

Alot more can be done plotwise, when an away team has some independence from the bridge.

I.e. I'd like to have atleast 30 percent of episodes be away team/shuttle craft episodes.

 

[Autistoid]

The "Lower Decks" episodes are great escapes and slice of life vignettes to get away from the action of the bridge officers, but that's also the trouble with lower decks stories. They generally are not where the best dramatic action takes place. A Romulan warbird decloaks in front of the ship... but our POV is with the ensign in sickbay treating another holodeck injury. The away team beams down to a planet to survey some ecological disaster... but our POV is with a Lt. Jg. working the night shift in astrometrics. There's a fierce ship-to-ship fight... but our POV is with the Lt. who's been ordered to crawl into a Jeffries Tube filled with plasma to make a repair. Okay, that last one would be a dramatic situation and worth a scene. But there goes the character. You want an engaging story, go where the action is... which is usually on the bridge and on the away teams, which is why that's where all the shows have focused for their main casts.

I don't think your separinting in universe from reality.

When you run into the romulans, why couldn't some junior officers be on an assault team. Or maybe in a ultra high part of the ship doing repairs.

 

[Overgeeked]

If a (non Star Trek) show centers on doctors and nurses in a hospital ER, you don't concern the story with the administrator in a different part of the hospital.

If your focus is on the "lower decks," then the story isn't going to be about a Romulan ship decloaking, unless that's a lead in to the series main characters and what it is they're doing in the episode.

On NCIS, the main characters are employed by the US Navy, but the Secretary of the Navy is rarely seen.

Most cop shows don't feature the Chief of Police (although some do). The shows is structure around cops on the beat or detectives.

I think you're missing the point. The non-Trek hospital show doesn't focus on the administrator for the same reason Trek shows don't generally focus on the lower decks... because that's not where the most engaging, thrilling, and enthralling action is taking place. If you're doing a medical show and have a bus full of nuns crashing into a school bus full of disabled kids, the action isn't with the administrator or the janitor, it's with the hospital staff that is either directly dealing with the chaotic situation of the families or the chaotic situation of the patients themselves.

It's really that simple. So if the show is about military police solving crimes, you get maybe a guest appearance by the Secretary of the Navy, but the focus of the show is on the military police solving crimes. But that's a tautology, of course a show focused on X will feature X. But that's not enough. Consider why the show focuses there instead of with the Secretary of the Navy. The viewers expect to be where the action is. I'm sure a character focused show could do below decks well, but if you're going to have any kind of action-adventure going on, that's not really going to be below decks. Why? Because all the action-adventure stuff is going to be on a larger scale than the below decks characters.

I don't think your separating in universe from reality.

When you run into the romulans, why couldn't some junior officers be on an assault team. Or maybe in a ultra high part of the ship doing repairs.

They absolutely can, but they're not the ones in charge. They have no agency. They can't make any real decisions. That's the point. Shows focus on characters with agency who can make decisions and affect things on their level of conflict, you also get higher ups as foils often in say cop shows. The near-politician police captain, for example. (Despite captains not really being case-by-case hands-on types, that would be a lieutenant, but whatever.) The beat cop who solves the crimes (note that's where the action is), who's hindered by the criminals and at times by the brass (usually for political reasons).

Okay. So what agency does a Lt. Jg. in engineering have? Basically none. There are dozens of officers above them that can order them around and second guess every call they make. That's why the main character from engineering is always the boss. So what agency does an Ensign in security have? Basically none. There are dozens of officers above them... on and on with basically every department on a starship or at a starbase. Unless you're dealing with the department heads, the characters have no autonomy and no agency. The point isn't "no one above them", rather "only enough above them to cause problems, but not enough to shut down the character at every turn". It's a balance between oversight (higher ups) and autonomy and agency. The more oversight, the less autonomy and agency. The less autonomy and agency, the less engaging and interesting the story becomes (if it's any kind of action-adventure story that is).

Take a few modern genres and plunk them into the Trek universe. Some will only work in certain places, because that's where the action is, where the characters with enough autonomy to have agency are to have a decent action-adventure story. Mystery / investigation shows, like cop shows or medical mysteries. The action isn't focused on the administrators, nor with the day-one beat cops/fresh-faced doctors who don't have a clue, it's with the seasoned detectives/medical people. Sure, they might occasionally feature a fresh-faced character, but they're often the initial viewpoint into a chaotic world the audience knows nothing about, and they quickly become knowledgable and autonomous enough to have agency. Think DS9's "Nor the Battle to the Strong".

But what about a Trek cop show? Where could it work? It would have to be on a planet or starbase, or the cop would need enough autonomy to have the agency to travel around at their discretion to find adventures. If you put it aboard a starship and there's anything like the case of the week, then that's the ship with the worst security in the entire fleet and the show becomes a joke after a few episodes. But that character is where the action would be, not in the administrator's office or with the filing clerk. The focus would need to be on the "cops" as they're the ones doing the work and making the decisions.

How about a Trek medical drama? Where could it work? It would have to be on a front line ship, a planet, or a starbase. But you would have to have either a war on (MASH) or a centralized enough point for enough patients with enough variety of problems to keep things interesting (ER, House, etc). But again, the actual doctors doing the work would be where the action is. They're the ones doing the work and making the decisions. Not with the administrators or the filing clerks.

On a starship, where's the action? Where are the characters with enough autonomy to have the agency required to make decisions? On the bridge. A below decks (implying on board a starship) and lower ranks (implying the main characters are explicitly not in charge) focused show could work, but it would needs be a nearly pure character-based drama. It would be a technobabbly soap opera. Nothing wrong with that, but basically the opposite of anything I'd want to watch.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm only objecting to having regular action-adventure stories from a below decks / lower ranks POV. You can do compelling character-drama from literally anywhere. From two filing clerks competing for the same promotion on up to the President's secret meetings and politicking. Which is also why you tend to get a mix of action-adventure and character-drama. You can do the drama anywhere and it still makes sense, you can't do the action-adventure anywhere on a serialized show. Filing clerks getting into phaser fights would become a sitcom rather quickly. New this Fall, "The Office Trek". Filing and phasers in the 24th-century. "Michael, if you say that again, I'm going to stun you." "Oh, shut up Dwight." zzaapp. twitch.

 

[T'Girl]

of course a show focused on X will feature X

And that's the whole point, if the show is structure to focus on junior officers and enlisted and their adventures, then that is what the stories will center on. The senior officers can assign the team to do something (which can easily happen off screen) and the story unfolds.

 

[Overgeeked]

And that's the whole point, if the show is structure to focus on junior officers and enlisted and their adventures, then that is what the stories will center on. The senior officers can assign the team to do something (which can easily happen off screen) and the story unfolds.

Then what happens on screen? All the big action-adventure stuff is being handled by the department heads on the bridge. The only action the lower decks crew would get would be the minor tasks the senior officers give them. And if that's going to happen off screen... what the hell is the show about? A slice of life of your average mutt ensign or enlisted person as they go about their day (keeping all the action off screen of course), and interact with their colleagues. Again, for a single palette-cleanser episode, perhaps, but what you're proposing as a series is as literally opposite to anything I'd be interested in watching as is possible to get.

By only responding to that single snippet of a line out of the long post I made, you're opting to miss the point entirely. To have action-adventure, you have to have the characters be in positions where the action-adventure can happen. That's on the bridge, not the lower decks. The premise is made even sillier considering what little action these character could have you're proposing that could happen off screen. Drama and character interaction can happen anywhere. So what's left, what you're proposing is reduced to a Trek based soap opera. Star Trek 90210 perhaps? Or Coronation Street in Space?

 

[Autistoid]

Reasons being on the bridge is so far from teh action.

1) IT's safe, not only from danger but from political recourse it's been established as a place where folks can break orders, etc.

2) It's a place that glosses over all the details that people are missing and for the sake of making a new series, means were reliant on all the cliche's of the past.

3) It means flexiblity is gone, you can't recast a bridge crew, etc.

4)Politics etc lends itself to the alien of the week format, with a bunch of pseudo political moral blah blah.

 

[BillJ]

3) It means flexiblity is gone, you can't recast a bridge crew, etc.

Sure you can. You've taken resistance from the creators in the past as some iron clad rule that can never be violated in the future. And the Enterprise crew has been recast twice, "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and Star Trek (2009).

4)Politics etc lends itself to the alien of the week format, with a bunch of pseudo political moral blah blah.

I tend to like this format. Something satisfying about getting a whole story in an hour and being able to move onto other things.

Personally, I'm more interested in the people who are involved in carrying out General Order 24 than the dude who scrubs the plasma vents. I know Pocket Books tried a lower decks approach with TOS and it died a pretty quick death.

 

[T'Girl]

All the big action-adventure stuff is being handled by the department heads on the bridge.

But only if the story is written that way.

 

[Overgeeked]

All the big action-adventure stuff is being handled by the department heads on the bridge.

But only if the story is written that way.

There are only so many times you can defy all logic and reason and credibility by having the action bypass the bridge and somehow focus on the lower decks. If the ship gets boarded week after week it will devolve into a sitcom.

Since you keep arguing for lower decks focus without offering up any insight on what the show actually would be, how about a nice change of pace where you say what the focus actually would be, you know with specifics.

 

[Nerys Myk]

All the big action-adventure stuff is being handled by the department heads on the bridge.

But only if the story is written that way.

There are only so many times you can defy all logic and reason and credibility by having the action bypass the bridge and somehow focus on the lower decks. If the ship gets boarded week after week it will devolve into a sitcom.

Since you keep arguing for lower decks focus without offering up any insight on what the show actually would be, how about a nice change of pace where you say what the focus actually would be, you know with specifics.

You would have to develop a show with Lower Decks types in mind. So plots that involve "bridge" level stuff would be avoided. Ship to ship combat. Alien boarding parties. Diplomatic mixers. All plots to be used sparingly.

 

[T'Girl]

Have a show where you have a senior lieutenant with junior officers and enlist who compose the ship's regular away team and general trouble-shooters. Other specialists from the ship would be added to the team as needed. The ship's captain and senior officers would be reoccurring characters.

Since you keep arguing for lower decks focus without offering up any insight on what the show actually would be, how about a nice change of pace where you say what the focus actually would be, you know with specifics.

The upper quote was post number seven of this thread, apparently you missed it

They would be the ones who beam down, they would be the ship's trouble shooters, they would be the focus of the show, they would undertake missions.

The weekly guest stars would be the people they encounter, or people who are temporarily attached to the team. There would be people on the ship outside of the team who would assist them, something like a support team.

The core team will be four people, but others can be added if the story needs them.

I see the team as being lead by a senior lieutenant, a academy graduate, late twenties to early thirties, a Human male. Let's have him be handsome and sure of himself, he's been on teams like this on three different ships and he's experienced in the duty. He has worked his way up to leading his own team.

Next there is a Bolian female, ensign and relatively inexperienced. I see someone looking like the (fake) Bolian Mitena Haro from TNG Allegiance. Sciences field. She's the one things are explained to so the audience knows what's going on.

Then there is a senior petty officer, female from a long lived species and at sixty years is in the flower of her youth. A career security specialist, expert in investigative and forensics. A bit more hard nosed and jaded than the others.

And the forth member of the team is a petty officer (2nd class), a non-Human male in his mid twenties. Engineering and technology expert. Has a husband and wife on the ship.

Without the crime aspect, I imagine the show being like NCIS or CSI in that there would be a situation that the team would be assigned to. Exploration, or a investigation, or potential combat, or initial meet and greets of new civilization (like a advance party). Maybe they would even investigate a crime too.

If invaders gets on board they would be in the thick of it.

And all during these events, the captain would stay on the bridge where he belongs.