Oh my I must be tired today...my brain just had a visual of "friendship bracelets". Maybe if Archer had given Silik a little "BFF" bracelet with little unicorns on it, maybe the Temporal Cold War may have turned out differently.....
Bakula: Enterprise Was The Wild West
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Oh my I must be tired today...my brain just had a visual of "friendship bracelets". Maybe if Archer had given Silik a little "BFF" bracelet with little unicorns on it, maybe the Temporal Cold War may have turned out differently.....
I preferred ENT's justification of Vulcan behaviour to the way DS9 made Vulcans devious and resentful for no reason. Which I agree they did just because it's easier to write.
I agree that young T'Pau was problematic, but I put a lot of blame on the actress, who obviously had NO idea what a Vulcan is like (she obviously hadn't watched Amok Time), and the director who didn't correct her.
The Vulcan casting for that arc was generally not good...
Agreed. But, then, we did have Soval. And I tend to compare all Vulcans to Soval. And no one compares. And T'Pau especially was just so so weak in comparison.
Young T'Pau was like an Elf. No other Vulcan has ever seemed elf like, despite the ears.
The late Leonard Nimoy may have been - at least partly - responsible for STAR TREK's establishing the trend of playing Vulcans as anything but logical. Throughout TOS, Spock's emotional detatchment would occassionally waiver, but there were reasons for that, like spores or Pon Farr, or whatever.
From TWoK onwards, though, he started playing Spock as less uptight. And by the reboot, of course, he was letting his emotions all hang out. Sybok was emotional. Even TNG's "Sarek," had Mark Lenard playing him more as Richard III than a Vulcan. Again, there were reasons for that, but the coldness, the sort of deadpan-ness of Vulcans had been dissolved and audiences simply got used to seeing Vulcans as emotional and/or acting in an illogical manner. Good for lazy writers. Bad for fans of Vulcans as TOS depicted them. Tim Russ, fortunately, was able to recapture some of that, to Tuvok's benefit.
But come time for ENT, which was aimed more at general audiences, initially, what do they care what a Vulcan acts like? When we saw T'Pau again, she was very cute and pixie-like this time, but had almost nothing to do with the established character, whatsover. She even talked like an American! Why did ENT have to show us Vulcan again, only to make it look like a rock quarry, here on Earth? TSFS made it appear majestic, imperial, mythical and mysterious ...
From TWoK onwards, though, he started playing Spock as less uptight. And by the reboot, of course, he was letting his emotions all hang out. Sybok was emotional. Even TNG's "Sarek," had Mark Lenard playing him more as Richard III than a Vulcan. Again, there were reasons for that, but the coldness, the sort of deadpan-ness of Vulcans had been dissolved and audiences simply got used to seeing Vulcans as emotional and/or acting in an illogical manner. Good for lazy writers. Bad for fans of Vulcans as TOS depicted them. Tim Russ, fortunately, was able to recapture some of that, to Tuvok's benefit.
But come time for ENT, which was aimed more at general audiences, initially, what do they care what a Vulcan acts like? When we saw T'Pau again, she was very cute and pixie-like this time, but had almost nothing to do with the established character, whatsover. She even talked like an American! Why did ENT have to show us Vulcan again, only to make it look like a rock quarry, here on Earth? TSFS made it appear majestic, imperial, mythical and mysterious ...
I would have been OK with the trellium storyline if it wasn't so half-assed. She did it to experience emotions? You mean with with all those neuropressure sessions, she didn't feel an ounce of Trip's emotions
I watched Damage knowing the spoilers and even there, I found it jarring they explained the addiction after the fact. It also would have made much more sense if T'Pol took trellium because of PTSD. Poor Jolene. No wonder she felt like a warm body in a role.I also don't understand the argument that ENT played fast and loose with Vulcans. I'm sure that if there was a TV drama about America for aliens, by that logic, people will say writers have no continuity with Jim Crow laws and the like. And that was just 50 years ago.
I recently did a rewatch of the series and after watching Demons and Terra Prime, I was actually a little sad we can't see how the series would continue. Those two episodes showed Enterprise going in a great direction that was unfortunately too late. After the rewatch, ENT became my third favorite series.
teacake's comment about T'Pau basically being an elf is so right. Maybe it never happened, but I'm sure that when Rick and Braga and Moore and the gang saw Lord of the Rings, they had to be like, "look they have pointed ears! That's how we want to do Vulcans! Plus, there's a built in audience for playing Vulcans as elves. Make it so ..."I would have been OK with the trellium storyline if it wasn't so half-assed. She did it to experience emotions? You mean with with all those neuropressure sessions, she didn't feel an ounce of Trip's emotions
I also don't understand the argument that ENT played fast and loose with Vulcans. I'm sure that if there was a TV drama about America for aliens, by that logic, people will say writers have no continuity with Jim Crow laws and the like. And that was just 50 years ago.
The MOTION PICTURE was the worst thing that ever happened to STAR TREK aliens, because once new-improved Klingons were accepted, then its open season on ALL the established aliens. Even to the point of having T'Pol justify becoming a junky to get along better with her crew. T'Pau's an Elf from Lord of the Rings. All of the Vulcans are wearing cheap wigs and have putty smeared over their eyebrows. What the hell's going ON with the Vulcans??? Yes, I know it's on FREE TV, but all of that popcorn at stake ... thank Providence for Tim Russ and his performance of Tuvok.
I dunno... It's a while since I watched the LOTR movies, but I recall those elves being a lot more Vulcan-like than T'Pau was! There was something aloof and mystical about them, whereas T'Pau was just bratty.
I agree that Tim Russ was a great Vulcan. Shame he wasn't in a different series.
I would have been OK with the trellium storyline if it wasn't so half-assed. She did it to experience emotions? You mean with with all those neuropressure sessions, she didn't feel an ounce of Trip's emotions
She did it to experience them without feeling like shit about it. Drugs are like that, you don't feel guilt about your incredible feeeeeeeelings because they are so intense. That's my theory.
teacake's comment about T'Pau basically being an elf is so right. Maybe it never happened, but I'm sure that when Rick and Braga and Moore and the gang saw Lord of the Rings, they had to be like, "look they have pointed ears! That's how we want to do Vulcans! Plus, there's a built in audience for playing Vulcans as elves. Make it so ..."I would have been OK with the trellium storyline if it wasn't so half-assed. She did it to experience emotions? You mean with with all those neuropressure sessions, she didn't feel an ounce of Trip's emotions
I also don't understand the argument that ENT played fast and loose with Vulcans. I'm sure that if there was a TV drama about America for aliens, by that logic, people will say writers have no continuity with Jim Crow laws and the like. And that was just 50 years ago.
The MOTION PICTURE was the worst thing that ever happened to STAR TREK aliens, because once new-improved Klingons were accepted, then its open season on ALL the established aliens. Even to the point of having T'Pol justify becoming a junky to get along better with her crew. T'Pau's an Elf from Lord of the Rings. All of the Vulcans are wearing cheap wigs and have putty smeared over their eyebrows. What the hell's going ON with the Vulcans??? Yes, I know it's on FREE TV, but all of that popcorn at stake ... thank Providence for Tim Russ and his performance of Tuvok.
Eh, I think the Enterprise portrayal of T'Pau was pretty bad, but I have to say a lot of that may fall on the actress. I don't think there was any LOTR conspiracy involved. Just bad acting and possibly bad directing.
T'Pol on the other hand, I think was portrayed just fine, and is my 4th favorite Vulcan, after Spock,Tuvok, and Sarek. You may have a problem with the addiction story line, but I actually enjoyed it. When not affected by external forces, I don't think T'Pol was any more emotional than any other Vulcan character, including those listed above.
One thing I do wish is that T'pol should have actually been T'Pau, which I believe was considered.
I've heard, also, that the ONLY reason T'Pau was changed to T'Pol was because of some copyright issue. T'Pau onboard would've been a mistake, I feel. In AMOK TIME, I got the impression that she'd very rarely ever seen Humans and that she didn't quite know what to do with Bones and Jim. I just don't see her as serving for years on a STARFLEET vessel ... even when she was still a cute & emotional pixie. As to LOTR being any kind of influence, yes ... I'm just throwing that in.
Galadriel seemed kind of bratty to me, when she treated Frodo to some of the worst CGI I've ever seen used on someone, to test her resistance to The Ring. Arwen, of course, was spunky. Legolas was always quick on the trigger. But yes, elves could get a little Zen, when things were particularly slow in LOTR. Compare that to T'Pau's being "bratty" - haha! Aww ... she could've spared Archer & T'Pol some grieving, that's true. But she likes people to know where they stand in the order of things. It excites her ...
I didn't get that impression, and really T'Pau didn't say a whole lot or interact with Kirk and McCoy that much. In fact, one could argue the fact that T'Pau allowed two humans to attend the ceremony and participate in the fight was very progressive for a Vulcan.
That all said, point taken and maybe it is better T'pol was a separate character after all.
Indeed. It didn't help when the writers (or just as likely, the studio) kept changing what Archer was supposed to be every other episode, and what was supposed to be gruff often came across as petulance. I was around this board when the show was on the air. Suffice it to say no one had ever heard a negative work about Bakula prior to him doing Enterprise.
I know it's inevitable that comparisons of Enterprise captains will take place, but I don't believe it explains the shorter than normal run of ST:ENT. Although I agree Sir Patrick Stewart is a better actor, but that would be the case in most comparisons, so that surely can't be a major cause. Actually. I found Scott Bakula a more than capable steward of the Enterprise captain legacy.
I think Scott Bakula was the perfect choice as Archer precisely because he's such a nice guy. It kind of puts him in league with the likes of Neil Armstrong. Armstrong's been reported to have been an important part of America's space program from the time he joined, but more than that ... he was a really decent person. A good Man. He wasn't arrogant and even the achievement of the Moon landing did nothing to change that about him. And I think it's awesome that Archer embodies all of those qualities.
I would argue that once Scott was cast, the part should've been written to fit his skill-set, if you like. Yes, as an actor, I'm sure he likes having his abilities pushed, but he wouldn't be convincing at it. His strengths should've been focused on in relation to how Archer functioned in these stories and, as you say, be fairly consistant about that ...
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