Agents of SHIELD - Season 2 Discussion Threads. (Spoilers Likely)

[bbjeg]

Last nights episode was one of the best of this season. I liked the reuniting of the gang with the stable super-powered Skye, the destruction of the Bus, the Real-Shield and Coulson's understanding, and Gonzales' look after Coulson's spoiler.

With that said, and though I liked the teams response to Ward's sincere bullshit, I'm surprised how free they let him be. When Coulson thought May was a double agent, he kept her bound and weaponless. Ward was a confirmed triple agent yet he was free to move about and they gave him a gun. Skye even left alone with Simmons who was unarmed (at least to everyone else's perception). Why the trust (and why was Simmons the only one willing to take the shot)?

So I'll have to watch it again, but was that Skye scene one of the coolest we've ever seen on this show?

Yeah, May taught her well.

...
Children on the school yard (in the real world) are going to be arguing about Ultron, even though one half of them are going to be citing the cartoons as source material and the other half will be citing the new Movie as gospel...

I'm sure one or two know the original story. Kids can read comics too.

Which begs the question... Who would win in a fight? Daredevil or Skye, and I'll be generous and say Sky is not using her quake power in the first couple of minutes to totally disrupt DD's heightened senses.
It is not that farfetched, they most likely know each other already.

In a fist fight? Daredevil could take more than Skye can give and could dish out more than Skye can take. He'd win, eventually.

 

[cylkoth]

The last 3 or four weeks of (Almost called it earth's Mightiest Heroes) Avenger's Assemble have been quite Ultron heavy.



In the cartoon (that I am watching) Stark just said "The Age of Ultron is Over!"

What a pompous twit.

LOL...That show has made me sick of Ultron already. And Thanos too. If you had a drinking game where you chugged down every time Thanos' or Ultron's name was mentioned in a single half hour, we'd all be pickled before the closing credits rolled. It's like what Alphas did in season 2 with Stanton Parrish this, Stanton Parrish that, Stanton Parrish, every 5 seconds.

Back to AoS. A fantastic episode. Simmons has me mystified. I kept wondering if she'd been mind frelled while undercover right up until Bakshi left the building. I'm really worried for her, she looks as if she could snap anytime now-if she hasn't already.
Ward returning Agent 33 'home' to SHIELD, was unexpected. Until his conversation with Coulson at the end, I was expecting it to be yet another deceptive maneuver, but it seems he genuinely wanted to help her.

Nooooo, not the Bus! Given how expensive those sets were, I still shocked they'd take her out. But as posted up thread, having a flying base stored inside a new main base was kinda redundant. The acquisition of a few Quinn Jets sealed the old girl's fate. Sniffle, I'll miss her.

Forget Skye verses Daredevil. The real content would be May vs Daredevil!!!

 

[Reverend]

Which begs the question... Who would win in a fight? Daredevil or Skye, and I'll be generous and say Sky is not using her quake power in the first couple of minutes to totally disrupt DD's heightened senses.
It is not that farfetched, they most likely know each other already.

Murdock has an edge in combat training experience alone. Remember that less that two years ago, Sky was a hacker living in the back of a van where Matt has had almost a lifetime's training.

That said, if he's allowed to use his radar sense then it's only fair Sky is allowed to use her abilities too and you have to think, someone able to control vibrations at the (sub?)atomic level can play merry hell with a person who's spacial awareness is mostly vibration detection through sound and touch. In theory she can pretty much blind him, but I doubt she have that level of control right now.

Speaking of, I like how they used that little bit of business to underscore that Sky isn't the kind of super-hero who's helpless without her abilities. Indeed, I'm looking forward for when they start showing her combining May's martial training with the ability to punch clean through a building. And now that I said that I wonder what would happen if she tried to manipulate vibranium...

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I would have loved to get int oWard's head when he saw what she can do now AND has superpowers on top of it.
He either shit his pants or got a major boner... or both!

 

[sojourner]

To paraphrase an old The Tick comic, Skye trained for "almost two weeks!".

 

[Christopher]

This was a pretty cool episode, and about as subversive as I'd expect -- one act ends with the original gang finally back together on the Bus, letting us feel that we've come home again, and the next act ends with the Bus being destroyed and guarantees that we can never go back. That was kinda painful to watch. No, not the Bus!

"My God, May, what have I done?"
"What you had to do, Phil. What you've always done -- turn death into a fighting chance to live. And then maybe do some compulsive alien writing."

They certainly went all-out with the action, going for a cinematic flavor to whet our appetite for Age of Ultron, and leading us into the events of the movie. But they kinda went overboard there with that Raina scene at the end. I was almost expecting them to cut right from her vision into an AoU trailer. There's always been a "commercial for the movies" element to this show, but it was especially blatant there. It's a bit annoying. I was saying before about how the different works in a shared universe have to serve the needs of their own individual stories as well as, and generally above, the needs of the larger whole. Ideally you want to find a way to balance both, to have any reference to the larger continuity still serve a purpose within the story you're telling. This was just a promotion for a totally different story.

Although, well, we'll see next week. Raina said the coming events would change the world forever; maybe we'll see that impact in the remaining episodes of the season. Maybe the aftermath of that will be what brings the rival SHIELD factions to an understanding -- or a heightened conflict -- and propels them into the finale. So maybe it does serve a purpose for this series. Still, it feels kind of cheap to give a character precognition just to turn her into a walking coming-attractions trailer.

So I'll have to watch it again, but was that Skye scene one of the coolest we've ever seen on this show?

Yes, even if it did feel a bit video-gamey with the way the camera followed Skye. But it was great to see a continuous, uncut action scene rather than the usual "cut every 1.5 seconds or less" standard. I bet the AoS folks heard what Daredevil was doing in episode 2 and went, "Oh, crap, we need to raise our game now."

By the way, Joss Whedon has always been a fan of long, uncut master takes, though they're usually dialogue scenes, like the opening scene of Angel's season 5 premiere and the main-titles sequence of Serenity (which has one disguised cut for technical reasons but is otherwise continuous). But there were also a couple of Summer Glau fight scenes in Serenity that were done with unbroken takes. And of course there was that lengthy "single-shot" sequence during the climax of The Avengers where the camera and the action moved smoothly from one hero to the next to the next, though that wasn't really the same thing at all, since it was mostly CGI and stitched together from numerous unrelated bits of live action.

So it's kind of ironic to see Marvel's most impressive uncut fight scenes coming in shows that Joss Whedon isn't directing.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

By the way, Joss Whedon has always been a fan of long, uncut master takes, though they're usually dialogue scenes, like the opening scene of Angel's season 5 premiere and the main-titles sequence of Serenity (which has one disguised cut for technical reasons but is otherwise continuous). But there were also a couple of Summer Glau fight scenes in Serenity that were done with unbroken takes. And of course there was that lengthy "single-shot" sequence during the climax of The Avengers where the camera and the action moved smoothly from one hero to the next to the next, though that wasn't really the same thing at all, since it was mostly CGI and stitched together from numerous unrelated bits of live action.

So it's kind of ironic to see Marvel's most impressive uncut fight scenes coming in shows that Joss Whedon isn't directing.

You forgot the entire first act of Season 5 Buffy episode "The Body".
that was pretty much his masterpiece of single shot sequences for me.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

So it's kind of ironic to see Marvel's most impressive uncut fight scenes coming in shows that Joss Whedon isn't directing.

It's Kevin Tancharoen, who is brother to Maurissa. He has directed some cool action scenes, including the one earlier this season with the Melinda May table head slam.

 

[Christopher]

You forgot the entire first act of Season 5 Buffy episode "The Body".
that was pretty much his masterpiece of single shot sequences for me.

Oh, yes, that was amazing.

 

[Reverend]

Not sure if I've brought this up before, but I think it's worth commenting on just how good the chemistry is between Kyle MacLachlan and Dichen Lachman. Despite there being a 20+ year age difference between the two actors, I absolutely buy that they are (or at least were) a marred couple and that Lachman is the more emotionally mature of the pair.

Lachman also has some good chemistry with Bennet and again are very believable as an estranged mother and daughter despite there only being a decade between them in reality.

 

[bbjeg]

Which begs the question... Who would win in a fight? Daredevil or Skye...

... you have to think, someone able to control vibrations at the (sub?)atomic level can play merry hell with a person who's spacial awareness is mostly vibration detection through sound and touch. In theory she can pretty much blind him, but I doubt she have that level of control right now...

She focused and restarted Lincoln's heart. She could probably vibrate an ear drum.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You're talking about an interference pattern.

But what about noise nullification?

How much "noise" can she absorb without turning her bones to powder?

Although if she emits matching resonances, that'll cause breaks in his radar.

 

[bbjeg]

Come to think of it, it doesn't really have to be his ear. If Skye vibrated the room, it could effect Daredevil's senses, especially his x-ray abilities.

(These are the sort of topics I want to see more of in the MCU thread. It wouldn't be too far fetched that Skye already knows of Daredevil. Her crime junky friend Micro probably sent some of his photos her way.)

 

[Locutus of Bored]

As awesome as Skye's single-take fight was, equally impressive to me was the Coulson Maneuver with The Bus (RIP) and the Quinjet (can't help but think that Admiral Adama's presence was inspiration for the "falling like a rock" maneuver), and Coulson's drop the mic moment when he mentioned to Gonzalez that he was working with Maria Hill and revealed that Fury was still alive. I loved the look on EJO's face when Coulson said that.

It was also good to have the band back together for an episode, even if the dynamic has totally changed.

I'm glad they're giving Agent 33 a chance to come back into the fold, since she really was a victim every bit as much as Mike was, if not more so.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I haven't seen it yet, but-- oh, no, not the Bus.

I said a few weeks back that it probably wouldn't make it to season 3. They've been using it and the sets less and less in season 2 and now that they have access to the quinjet set pieces from the movies, it only makes sense they'd retire the Bus. Honestly though, I expected them to make a bigger deal of it. This felt almost casual.

Looks like you were right. At first, I thought that must be the end of Lola, too, but no, it was part of the plan, so Coulson would have taken her off.

Gonzalez is definitely going to be a problem. But I loved his reaction when Coulson revealed his "spoiler." Not to mention Bobbie's almost-off-camera smirk.

Ward's apology scene at the briefing was bizarre. The thing he regretted most was breaking up their "family." It almost sounded like the writers apologizing to the audience for messing things up. Okay, that's probably my imagination.

I loved the scene with Hunter and Mack. Hunter was a big man in that one, and there is still hope for Mack. What I really want is to see him reconcile with Fitz. He should really be Fitz's best friend. He was the one who really helped Fitz out when he was struggling with his brain damage and everybody else was all awkward around him.

As for Theta Protocol, I'm confused. Coulson mentioned it to May when they were in Puerto Rico, but now she acts like she knows nothing about it. Continuity error? And at the end when Coulson was talking to Maria Hill, it almost sounded like the Avengers are Theta Protocol.

It seems that May was most upset about him seeing her ex, and she has no justification for that. I knew Coulson would have a good reason for seeing him, but I was surprised that he was seeing him professionally. It was a nice touch.

I don't know about Ward. He does seem like he wants to be as rehabilitated as possible-- the scene in the ready room, the scene with Simmons, leaving 33 in Coulson's custody-- but I don't know. I almost think that he's leaving 33 as a plant, but the look on her face said otherwise.

 

[Reverend]

Which begs the question... Who would win in a fight? Daredevil or Skye...

... you have to think, someone able to control vibrations at the (sub?)atomic level can play merry hell with a person who's spacial awareness is mostly vibration detection through sound and touch. In theory she can pretty much blind him, but I doubt she have that level of control right now...

She focused and restarted Lincoln's heart. She could probably vibrate an ear drum.

Come to think of it, it doesn't really have to be his ear. If Skye vibrated the room, it could effect Daredevil's senses, especially his x-ray abilities.

(These are the sort of topics I want to see more of in the MCU thread. It wouldn't be too far fetched that Skye already knows of Daredevil. Her crime junky friend Micro probably sent some of his photos her way.)

Yeah, she probably could effect an eardrum, but probably not in the middle of a fight. One has to think it would take a not inconsiderably amount of concentration to focus in on such a small target without accidentally making his whole head pop like an overripe melon.

A more viable tactic is to make the air vibrate to create a static noise effect, making it impossible to get a bead on anything. Or cause a high frequency oscillation that deafens him but not her.

Actually does that ever come up in the comics? Are dog whistles Daredevil's kryptonite?

Other tactics include making objects move from across the room, causing false echoes, mimicking her own sounds. Perhaps even cancel out the noise of her own movments, breathing and heart beat altogether.
I wonder if she can do the speedster/Flash trick of accelerating her heartbeat to such a high frequency is sounds like she's flatlined.

Mind you, being truly stealthy around that guy would be a singular challenge since even if she can be totally silent, that'd just create a void that shouldn't be there and would probably stand out even more to his senses than if she did nothing. Like standing in front of a person wearing IR goggles while wearing some 100% insulating material. You'd just appear as a person shaped hole against the ambient background temperature.
In short, she'd have to not only mask her noises <insert fart joke here> but emit normal sounding vibrations as cover.
That sounds like it would take a *huge* amount of focus to pull off.

As awesome as Skye's single-take fight was, equally impressive to me was the Coulson Maneuver with The Bus (RIP) and the Quinjet (can't help but think that Admiral Adama's presence was inspiration for the "falling like a rock" maneuver), and Coulson's drop the mic moment when he mentioned to Gonzalez that he was working with Maria Hill and revealed that Fury was still alive. I loved the look on EJO's face when Coulson said that.

EJO does a good a very good "shocked, confused and furious" look. Must be from finding out that almost everyone around him was a Cylon the whole time.

It was also good to have the band back together for an episode, even if the dynamic has totally changed.

I'm glad they're giving Agent 33 a chance to come back into the fold, since she really was a victim every bit as much as Mike was, if not more so.

I wonder if she'll be on the team come next season. With Trip gone, Hunter & Bobbie apparently off on their own spin-off show they could do with a new cast member. If so (and this is just now occurring to me) then cast wise, that would probably make this the most female heavy action adventure show on TV in quite a while. Not that I expect they'll rebrand the show "Coulson's Angels" or anything.

Ward's apology scene at the briefing was bizarre. The thing he regretted most was breaking up their "family." It almost sounded like the writers apologizing to the audience for messing things up. Okay, that's probably my imagination.

It just shows how twisted and desperate to feel accepted he is that this is the thing that meant the most to him.

As for Theta Protocol, I'm confused. Coulson mentioned it to May when they were in Puerto Rico, but now she acts like she knows nothing about it. Continuity error? And at the end when Coulson was talking to Maria Hill, it almost sounded like the Avengers are Theta Protocol.

My money is still on the helicarrier (100 bunk beds, remember?), but we'll see next week one way or the other. As for May, she didn't have to know what Theta Protocol was, just go to the toolbox and say "initial Theta Protocol". Which she would have done without question because she trusted Coulson.

It seems that May was most upset about him seeing her ex, and she has no justification for that. I knew Coulson would have a good reason for seeing him, but I was surprised that he was seeing him professionally. It was a nice touch.

I understand not telling her initially, but in hindsight Coulson should probably have mentioned it after bringing him back in to talk to Skye.

I don't know about Ward. He does seem like he wants to be as rehabilitated as possible-- the scene in the ready room, the scene with Simmons, leaving 33 in Coulson's custody-- but I don't know. I almost think that he's leaving 33 as a plant, but the look on her face said otherwise.

I think he was genuine in what he said. Aside from as we discussed this last week yet another double agent twist will be so far beyond redundant as to be groan worthy, I kind of like that they're going against the reformed betrayer trope.

The easy thing to do would be to kill Ward off in some redemptive act of self-sacrifice (which is what I expected them to do) but keeping him around and actually dealing with the idea that he's his own person now and the long term consequences of that are quite interesting. I should have remember this is a Whedon show and Whedon shows just love to turn tropes on their heads.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

... you have to think, someone able to control vibrations at the (sub?)atomic level can play merry hell with a person who's spacial awareness is mostly vibration detection through sound and touch. In theory she can pretty much blind him, but I doubt she have that level of control right now...

She focused and restarted Lincoln's heart. She could probably vibrate an ear drum.

Yeah, she probably could effect an eardrum, but probably not in the middle of a fight. One has to think it would take a not inconsiderably amount of concentration to focus in on such a small target without accidentally making his whole head pop like an overripe melon.

A more viable tactic is to make the air vibrate to create a static noise effect, making it impossible to get a bead on anything. Or cause a high frequency oscillation that deafens him but not her.

Actually does that ever come up in the comics? Are dog whistles Daredevil's kryptonite?

Other tactics include making objects move from across the room, causing false echoes, mimicking her own sounds. Perhaps even cancel out the noise of her own movments, breathing and heart beat altogether.
I wonder if she can do the speedster/Flash trick of accelerating her heartbeat to such a high frequency is sounds like she's flatlined.

Mind you, being truly stealthy around that guy would be a singular challenge since even if she can be totally silent, that'd just create a void that shouldn't be there and would probably stand out even more to his senses than if she did nothing. Like standing in front of a person wearing IR goggles while wearing some 100% insulating material. You'd just appear as a person shaped hole against the ambient background temperature.
In short, she'd have to not only mask her noises <insert fart joke here> but emit normal sounding vibrations as cover.
That sounds like it would take a *huge* amount of focus to pull off.

I have no doubt Skye could potentially generate terrible static or even screw with his hearing, but I don't think these general confusion tactics would work very well. I mean, if Skye's making things move from across the room, for instance, she's doing so with vibrations, right? Daredevil should still be able to hear the vibrations that are linking her with the object and understand that one end of that equation isn't actually a person.

 

[The Old Mixer]

All of these artsy-fartsy tricks that Skye might pull to confuse Daredevil's senses assume that she knows he's blind and relies upon heightened other senses in the first place.

I have to wonder if this is more or less it for Ward...they left things for him a little too wide open with no real hook. Is he leaving the cast?

 

[Reverend]

All of these artsy-fartsy tricks that Skye might pull to confuse Daredevil's senses assume that she knows he's blind and relies upon heightened other senses in the first place.

I have to wonder if this is more or less it for Ward...they left things for him a little too wide open with no real hook. Is he leaving the cast?

Sure, but then the whole scenario is purely hypothetical, no? The whole point is to speculate how one power set might go up against another.

She focused and restarted Lincoln's heart. She could probably vibrate an ear drum.

Yeah, she probably could effect an eardrum, but probably not in the middle of a fight. One has to think it would take a not inconsiderably amount of concentration to focus in on such a small target without accidentally making his whole head pop like an overripe melon.

A more viable tactic is to make the air vibrate to create a static noise effect, making it impossible to get a bead on anything. Or cause a high frequency oscillation that deafens him but not her.

Actually does that ever come up in the comics? Are dog whistles Daredevil's kryptonite?

Other tactics include making objects move from across the room, causing false echoes, mimicking her own sounds. Perhaps even cancel out the noise of her own movments, breathing and heart beat altogether.
I wonder if she can do the speedster/Flash trick of accelerating her heartbeat to such a high frequency is sounds like she's flatlined.

Mind you, being truly stealthy around that guy would be a singular challenge since even if she can be totally silent, that'd just create a void that shouldn't be there and would probably stand out even more to his senses than if she did nothing. Like standing in front of a person wearing IR goggles while wearing some 100% insulating material. You'd just appear as a person shaped hole against the ambient background temperature.
In short, she'd have to not only mask her noises <insert fart joke here> but emit normal sounding vibrations as cover.
That sounds like it would take a *huge* amount of focus to pull off.

I have no doubt Skye could potentially generate terrible static or even screw with his hearing, but I don't think these general confusion tactics would work very well. I mean, if Skye's making things move from across the room, for instance, she's doing so with vibrations, right? Daredevil should still be able to hear the vibrations that are linking her with the object and understand that one end of that equation isn't actually a person.

Sure, but understanding and focusing through it are two different things. I can understand that there's a person in front of me flashing a strobe in my face, but that doesn't make it any easier for my retinas to see the bugger, much less dodge or block a punch or a kick coming from that direction.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

All of these artsy-fartsy tricks that Skye might pull to confuse Daredevil's senses assume that she knows he's blind and relies upon heightened other senses in the first place.

I have to wonder if this is more or less it for Ward...they left things for him a little too wide open with no real hook. Is he leaving the cast?

Sure, but then the whole scenario is purely hypothetical, no? The whole point is to speculate how one power set might go up against another.

And it is only an actual fight as long as Sky wants to play nice anyway. For her it would be a simple question of keeping him in check enough. If she went in for the kill for whatever reason the fight'td be over in less than a second.
She moved a freakin mountain!
If that is not Avenger level power, I don't know what is...