Agents of SHIELD - Season 2 Discussion Threads. (Spoilers Likely)

[Christopher]

I didn't catch the name of the writer of "Melinda", but kudos.

The credited writer is DJ (Daniel J.) Doyle, who previously wrote the episodes "Nothing Personal" and "The Things We Bury" and has been on the production staff since the pilot. Apparently this is the first show he's gotten script credits for, having previously been a writers' assistant on Heroes and a couple of other things.

Jemma driving Fitz away? Totally something a HYDRA sleeper agent would do. I'm telling you guys, she was brainwashed (maybe Bobbi too) back when they were undercover. I get that she got him the actual box, but driing him away does put her in an awfully convenient position to be able to cause trouble on her own without him there to stop her.

Or, it puts Fitz in a convenient position to join up with Coulson and help the team. I think you're really reaching here.

Besides, if she were evil, she wouldn't have made Fitz his favorite sandwich. The sandwich was the writers' symbol to reassure us that all was well between Fitz and Simmons, that they've come through their tense period and become a team again. (And really, how could such an awesome sandwich be corrupted for evil? Don't dismiss the power of the sandwich!)

 

[Reverend]

Jemma driving Fitz away? Totally something a HYDRA sleeper agent would do. I'm telling you guys, she was brainwashed (maybe Bobbi too) back when they were undercover. I get that she got him the actual box, but driing him away does put her in an awfully convenient position to be able to cause trouble on her own without him there to stop her.

Or, it puts Fitz in a convenient position to join up with Coulson and help the team. I think you're really reaching here.

Besides, if she were evil, she wouldn't have made Fitz his favorite sandwich. The sandwich was the writers' symbol to reassure us that all was well between Fitz and Simmons, that they've come through their tense period and become a team again. (And really, how could such an awesome sandwich be corrupted for evil? Don't dismiss the power of the sandwich!)

Hogwash! Only a brainwashed agent of Hydra would give Fitz a sandwich to alay suspicions while she hatches her evil plot to....do.....something really evil.

Yeah, seriously, I think it's obvious that AoS is more or less done with Hydra for the time being. At least until after AoU.

I honestly can't see how anyone could have missed FitzSimmons's pantomime for what it was. I know I already said as much but I'm honestly just impressed that Simmons (the *really* painfully bad liar from season 1) managed to put one over on Bobbie TWICE in one episode. People really ought to stop underestimating her.

 

[Karzak]

Jemma driving Fitz away? Totally something a HYDRA sleeper agent would do. I'm telling you guys, she was brainwashed (maybe Bobbi too) back when they were undercover. I get that she got him the actual box, but driing him away does put her in an awfully convenient position to be able to cause trouble on her own without him there to stop her.

Or, it puts Fitz in a convenient position to join up with Coulson and help the team. I think you're really reaching here.

Besides, if she were evil, she wouldn't have made Fitz his favorite sandwich. The sandwich was the writers' symbol to reassure us that all was well between Fitz and Simmons, that they've come through their tense period and become a team again. (And really, how could such an awesome sandwich be corrupted for evil? Don't dismiss the power of the sandwich!)

I never said she was evil. I suggested that Simmons (and perhaps Bobbi) had been brainwashed by Whitehall while she was undercover at HYDRA last fall.

Simmons' being nice to Fitz or making his favorite sandwich or helping him to get closer to Coulson doesn't preclude the brainwashing from having happened, nor would it prevent Simmons being "acvitvated" at some key juncture (likely the finale). We just have to wait and see.

I mean, it's been a while, but they made a big fuss about "compliance" in those early season 2 episodes, and then the show just moved on from it. It could easily be a smoking gun the writers decide to use later on.

Whether it's reaching or not is certainly up for debate, I just happen to think it's a possible way the show will go.

 

[Marsden]

Hogwash! Only a brainwashed agent of Hydra would give Fitz a sandwich to alay suspicions while she hatches her evil plot to....do.....something really evil.

Yeah, seriously, I think it's obvious that AoS is more or less done with Hydra for the time being. At least until after AoU.

I honestly can't see how anyone could have missed FitzSimmons's pantomime for what it was. I know I already said as much but I'm honestly just impressed that Simmons (the *really* painfully bad liar from season 1) managed to put one over on Bobbie TWICE in one episode. People really ought to stop underestimating her.

I'm impressed that characters I was hoping would get a bullet in the head or death by Chitari expoditis the beginning of season 1 are now interesting and I'm concerned about them. I'm happy we had that dull stretch in the beginning, it really gave a nice setting and depth to the characters that's really paying off this year.

 

[Reverend]

Jemma driving Fitz away? Totally something a HYDRA sleeper agent would do. I'm telling you guys, she was brainwashed (maybe Bobbi too) back when they were undercover. I get that she got him the actual box, but driing him away does put her in an awfully convenient position to be able to cause trouble on her own without him there to stop her.

Or, it puts Fitz in a convenient position to join up with Coulson and help the team. I think you're really reaching here.

Besides, if she were evil, she wouldn't have made Fitz his favorite sandwich. The sandwich was the writers' symbol to reassure us that all was well between Fitz and Simmons, that they've come through their tense period and become a team again. (And really, how could such an awesome sandwich be corrupted for evil? Don't dismiss the power of the sandwich!)

I never said she was evil. I suggested that Simmons (and perhaps Bobbi) had been brainwashed by Whitehall while she was undercover at HYDRA last fall.

Simmons' being nice to Fitz or making his favorite sandwich or helping him to get closer to Coulson doesn't preclude the brainwashing from having happened, nor would it prevent Simmons being "acvitvated" at some key juncture (likely the finale). We just have to wait and see.

I mean, it's been a while, but they made a big fuss about "compliance" in those early season 2 episodes, and then the show just moved on from it. It could easily be a smoking gun the writers decide to use later on.

Whether it's reaching or not is certainly up for debate, I just happen to think it's a possible way the show will go.

^It's a boring way the show could go, hence I don't buy it. They've already pulled the double agent card FIVE TIMES already. May working for Fury, Ward and Garret working for Hydra and now Bobbie & Mac working for Director Adama. It's trite, it's done and I can't see them going bck to that well in a hurry. Whitehall is dead and done. That part of the plot now centres on Ward, Agent 33 and whatever they've done to Bakshi.

Besides, narratively it makes zero sense. FitzSimmons whole character arc this season has been about them both changing, separating and learning to accept and trust one another again instead of just expecting it all to go back to how it was.

From a plot logic POV it still makes zero sense. If anyone is a plant, who's running them and to what end? Whitehall is dead and all the major players save List & Strucker are off the board. That aside, not only could both Jemma & Bobbie have sabotaged *both* SHIELDs several times over by now, they actively aided in dealing Hydra's leadership a crippling blow.
Most of all, there's absolutely no way in the seven hells that a Hydra agent would have given Fury's toolbox away for *any* reason. That is the motherlode as far as Hydra is concerned, if they even knew it existed.

So no, frankly it's not debatable whether or not it's a reach. It's just a reach and a damned long one at that.

 

[Corran Horn]

I never said she was evil. I suggested that Simmons (and perhaps Bobbi) had been brainwashed by Whitehall while she was undercover at HYDRA last fall.

Just go all-out and have her have a hand in creating the Sentinels and pay whatever it is Fox wants.

 

[Karzak]

Or, it puts Fitz in a convenient position to join up with Coulson and help the team. I think you're really reaching here.

Besides, if she were evil, she wouldn't have made Fitz his favorite sandwich. The sandwich was the writers' symbol to reassure us that all was well between Fitz and Simmons, that they've come through their tense period and become a team again. (And really, how could such an awesome sandwich be corrupted for evil? Don't dismiss the power of the sandwich!)

I never said she was evil. I suggested that Simmons (and perhaps Bobbi) had been brainwashed by Whitehall while she was undercover at HYDRA last fall.

Simmons' being nice to Fitz or making his favorite sandwich or helping him to get closer to Coulson doesn't preclude the brainwashing from having happened, nor would it prevent Simmons being "acvitvated" at some key juncture (likely the finale). We just have to wait and see.

I mean, it's been a while, but they made a big fuss about "compliance" in those early season 2 episodes, and then the show just moved on from it. It could easily be a smoking gun the writers decide to use later on.

Whether it's reaching or not is certainly up for debate, I just happen to think it's a possible way the show will go.

^It's a boring way the show could go, hence I don't buy it. They've already pulled the double agent card FIVE TIMES already. May working for Fury, Ward and Garret working for Hydra and now Bobbie & Mac working for Director Adama. It's trite, it's done and I can't see them going bck to that well in a hurry. Whitehall is dead and done. That part of the plot now centres on Ward, Agent 33 and whatever they've done to Bakshi.

Besides, narratively it makes zero sense. FitzSimmons whole character arc this season has been about them both changing, separating and learning to accept and trust one another again instead of just expecting it all to go back to how it was.

From a plot logic POV it still makes zero sense. If anyone is a plant, who's running them and to what end? Whitehall is dead and all the major players save List & Strucker are off the board. That aside, not only could both Jemma & Bobbie have sabotaged *both* SHIELDs several times over by now, they actively aided in dealing Hydra's leadership a crippling blow.
Most of all, there's absolutely no way in the seven hells that a Hydra agent would have given Fury's toolbox away for *any* reason. That is the motherlode as far as Hydra is concerned, if they even knew it existed.

So no, frankly it's not debatable whether or not it's a reach. It's just a reach and a damned long one at that.

Perhaps from your perspective. I could still see it happening.

Just because HYDRA is allegedly over and done with doesn't rule out the possibility.

The whole point about brainwashing is to hide the fact that the brainwashee is a sleeper agent. Bobbi and Simmons don't know that they've been made "compliant" and won't, until they get activated. It's entirely possible Ward knows all about it; maybe he's the guy who flips the switch, so to speak, at the end of the season.

I'm not saying that's what WILL happen. I'm suggesting that it's a possible way things COULD happen. Regardless of whatever throughline you seem to think the show might be following in your own interpretation, I'd still submit that the Simmons-as-Boomer idea could still be entirely possible, particularly since you seem to think it's so out of left field/redundant. What a shock for us, sweet Jemma just put a slug in Coulson!

It's fun to consider all possibilities. That's all I'm saying.

 

[DEWLine]

Thanks, Guy. After consulting the site you linked to, though, I figured out that I misremembered. The episode I had in mind was actually "Making Friends and Influencing People".

Fitz: And is, um is there anything - is there anything more?
Coulson: That I'm keeping from you? Yeah. I'm director. There's a hell of a lot more.

 

[Christopher]

Just because HYDRA is allegedly over and done with doesn't rule out the possibility.

If the only defense you can offer for an idea is "It's not impossible," that generally means it's a bad idea. Technically, anything is possible in a work of fiction, so just calling an idea possible does not make it a good story.

I'd still submit that the Simmons-as-Boomer idea could still be entirely possible, particularly since you seem to think it's so out of left field/redundant. What a shock for us, sweet Jemma just put a slug in Coulson!

Shock value alone is not an excuse for doing something random and pointless to the narrative. It needs to serve a purpose in context, to mean something beyond just jumping out and yelling "Boo!" at the audience.

It's fun to consider all possibilities. That's all I'm saying.

No, it's fun to consider interesting possibilities. New stuff we haven't seen already rather than rehashes of HYDRA and sleeper agents. Character conflicts that come from real emotions and relationships rather than being the artificial result of brainwashing. If you really want to consider all possibilities, then surely you can think of something more interesting than you've suggested so far.

 

[Karzak]

Jeez. You guys really get bent out of shape over somebody having an opinion around here, or thinking something might be interesting that you don't.

Sorry to mess up your precious sandbox.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Some opinions are made from gold, other opinions are made form shit.

Thing is, that you can smoosh together shitty opinions into a giant moist pellet.

But if you try to smoosh gold together (at room temperature), you're just going to get a lot of clanging, which is what you are witnessing.

Total clang.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Maria Hill to return.

 

[kitik]

So I guess my question is: how do you use a hand-dryer to shake a tail?


I think my absolute favorite part of last night's episode was seeing happy Cal eating dinner with his family. Happy Cal is awesome.


Thanks to whoever above mentioned that Raina is clairvoyant. My brain processed that she can see the future, but it totally neglected to make the simple leap to that word she was so fond of last season, clairvoyant.

Whitehall is dead and done.

...Whitehall is dead...

Uhm, just how certain are we that Whitehall is dead and done? If Skye's mom is still alive, and he stole some of Skye's mom's powers, it's not too hard to make the jump to him still being alive.

If she got sliced up into a million pieces and survived, surely Whitehall can survive one measly bullet. (Wait, is that how he died? I forget.)


Plus hey, maybe Cal can finally get his revenge. (Though you know it would be the opposite. If Whitehall comes back, he's going to be the one to kill Cal, and spoil the happy family reunion.)

That said, I'm not holding my breath for Whitehall to come back. From a narrative perspective, there's just no need to bring him back right now. We've got enough going on with the battle for Shield and the Inhumans. (Though he would be a logical foil for the Ward/33 pairing. It might be a fun scene to see Whitehall order 33 to kill Ward.) But from a powers-and-abilities perspective, there's every reason to think we could still see him at some point.

 

[Turtletrekker]

So I guess my question is: how do you use a hand-dryer to shake a tail?

I hope we never get an answer to that, just a running joke with vague comments like, "Wow, I never knew you could do that with a hand-dryer", or "I can't believe they fell for the old hand-dryer trick."

 

[Sci]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the writers wouldn't be able to find an interesting way to do Brainwashed!Jemma. But I do agree that it seems implausible at this point. Certainly she would have to be some kind of sleeper agent if it were to happen, because there's no way anyone consciously working for Hydra would let Fitz walk out with Fury's Toolbox.

I do hope Reinhardt comes back. Reed Diamond is just delightfully menacing, whether he's playing slightly-campy-WW2-Nazi!Reinhardt, or modern-day-corporate-board-member!Reinhardt.

I do hope Hydra comes back after Age of Ultron is done with them. The show is at its most interesting when it's about the conflict between SHIELD and Hydra. They're like the institutional versions of Superman and Lex Luthor or Batman and the Joker.

 

[RJDiogenes]

The hand-dryer gag was my favorite part of the episode.

Well, not really, because May's story was incredibly heartbreaking and very well done. It's easy to see why she became so closed off.

In the present day, the SHIELD vs. SHIELD storyline has taken an interesting turn, with both May and Simmons becoming increasingly suspicious of Coulson's activities. Of course, either nuSHIELD is lying or Coulson has good reasons for what he's doing. At least he better. I have no interest in them pulling an Evil Coulson twist on us.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Y'all remember True Lies right?

Arnie bludgeoned an assassin with a hand dryer.



Although frankly, you could do the same damage with a chair.

 

[kitik]

Y'all remember True Lies right?

Arnie bludgeoned an assassin with a hand dryer.

That scene in True Lies was the first thing that popped into my head tonight. And the very next thing that popped into my head was "Fitz ain't doing that".

Well, not really, because May's story was incredibly heartbreaking and very well done. It's easy to see why she became so closed off.

I knew right from the start that the little girl was going to be a bad guy or involved with them somehow.

In the present day, the SHIELD vs. SHIELD storyline has taken an interesting turn, with both May and Simmons becoming increasingly suspicious of Coulson's activities. Of course, either nuSHIELD is lying or Coulson has good reasons for what he's doing. At least he better. I have no interest in them pulling an Evil Coulson twist on us.

The simplest solution is usually the best, and someone upthread suggested that he may just be building a new prison for super powered people. While there's some logic there, the problem is that he's been hiding it from May and Simmons and everyone else. Even if what he's doing is not evil and there are good reasons behind it, the way he's doing it actually does kind of make him out to be a villain. Too much hiding, too many secrets. The fact that May had no clue he'd been working with Deathlok and had no idea what Theta Protocol was is a bad sign.

I have a feeling they're going to blame the Avengers, and have Stark or Fury or Maria Hill be the one who told Coulson to do this job in secret, but that's still a cop out.


Just as I type this, I wonder of Theta Protocol, or some of Coulson's mysterious journeys and meetings, have anything to do with all the Agent Koenig's. He's been absent lately, maybe a bit too absent if you know what I mean. Maybe the cots are for new bases and safehouses since so many of the old ones were compromised.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Looking through wikipedia.

Lower case theta = The Watterson estimator for the population mutation rate in population genetics.

 

[Sci]

The hand-dryer gag was my favorite part of the episode.

Well, not really, because May's story was incredibly heartbreaking and very well done. It's easy to see why she became so closed off.

In the present day, the SHIELD vs. SHIELD storyline has taken an interesting turn, with both May and Simmons becoming increasingly suspicious of Coulson's activities. Of course, either nuSHIELD is lying or Coulson has good reasons for what he's doing. At least he better. I have no interest in them pulling an Evil Coulson twist on us.

Coulson doesn't have to be evil for him to have been wrong in how he's been going about the business of implementing the Theta Protocol, whatever that is.

And G-SHIELD doesn't have to be justified in their treatment of C-SHIELD to have valid concerns about how Coulson has been operating.

People can be right and some things and wrong above others.