TOS try again....

[BillJ]

Nimoy showing up on the viewscreen in Into Darkness is not that different from finding some elaborate rationalization to wedge a William Windom cameo into Phase II.

Except it made sense because of the way the universe is set up. It'd be silly not to at least attempt to ask someone who may have had a run-in with someone you're currently dealing with.

Nothing about what they did with Decker made sense in Phase II.

 

[Warped9]

There are fans that do get Star Trek on many different levels exampled by those who strive to keep their efforts consistent with the sensibilities of the original onscreen source materiel.

There are fans who write fanfic that is just an excuse to pkay in the Trek sandbox and they shovel in all kinds of stuff that would never have showed up onsceen. And then there are fans who write good fanfic that resonates with the onsceen source. This is true in extent to fan productions as well.

There are fans who like to play with the tech aspects and conjure up all sorts of things even though little if any of is consistent with has been established or inferred onscreen. Then there are fans who do great work that looks like it fits perfectly with what has been established including new never-before-seen ideas.

There are fans who grew up with TOS and were inspired to the extent that they managed to get work in newer Trek productions. Some did good work and some maybe not so much. But they were able to rein in any fannishness to do professional work.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

There's really no consistency in the quality of Trek produced by different "types" such that you can really draw a causal relationship. For instance, wouldn't the actors be the ultimate insiders?

Not necessarily. Star Trek was fortunate to have someone like Leonard Nimoy who was invested in the creation he was a part of. Many actors could not care less about their part once shooting wraps. Proud of their acting, sure.

 

[Vger23]

Quite a few shows are coming through now where a character just happens to be gay or bi-sexual

I've never understood the phrase "just happens to be gay." Characters on shows and in movies are deliberate constructions. Riker didn't just happens to be heterosexual, it was overtly established in the pilot and was an important and often referred to part of his character.

Every time I read this BBS I thank my lucky stars that Trek fans don't get to control what makes it to film

Considering the Trek writers and directors who come and gone through the years, and the producers we gotten, are the fans really any worse?

I'd certain say no.

I'm sorry, and I mean no disrespect to anyone, but the worst episode or movie of officially produced Star Trek is still better than 95% of the fanwank llama poop I've seen fans toss out as "ideas for a new series or movie."

 

[Pauln6]

I'm sorry, and I mean no disrespect to anyone, but the worst episode or movie of officially produced Star Trek is still better than 95% of the fanwank llama poop I've seen fans toss out as "ideas for a new series or movie."

But that's just hyperbole. There is a LOT more 'fanwank' than there is official Trek and the best of it is FAR better than the worst of official Trek. Some fans are just official writers that haven't been employed to write official Trek yet after all.

My advice is to stop reading all the unofficial stuff if it's not your cup of tea.

 

[Marsden]

I would prefer episodic adventures with the caveat that if something happens during an episode it's not forgotten at the end, so you could watch and enjoy each individually but watching them all and in order would enhance the experience but not be a requirement.

For example, the Enterprise encounters an alien race that upgrades their top speed in episode 10, then from 11 on that should still be there or it's explained, on line, that they removed it later.

 

[Vger23]

I'm sorry, and I mean no disrespect to anyone, but the worst episode or movie of officially produced Star Trek is still better than 95% of the fanwank llama poop I've seen fans toss out as "ideas for a new series or movie."

But that's just hyperbole. There is a LOT more 'fanwank' than there is official Trek and the best of it is FAR better than the worst of official Trek. Some fans are just official writers that haven't been employed to write official Trek yet after all.

My advice is to stop reading all the unofficial stuff if it's not your cup of tea.

I don't think it's hyperbole at all. I think most fanfic is crapola. I continue to read because there are rare instances where I run across something good. And, then it's worth it. But, most if it is not very good.

Thank you for offering your advice, though.

Sorry.

 

[Pauln6]

I'm sorry, and I mean no disrespect to anyone, but the worst episode or movie of officially produced Star Trek is still better than 95% of the fanwank llama poop I've seen fans toss out as "ideas for a new series or movie."

But that's just hyperbole. There is a LOT more 'fanwank' than there is official Trek and the best of it is FAR better than the worst of official Trek. Some fans are just official writers that haven't been employed to write official Trek yet after all.

My advice is to stop reading all the unofficial stuff if it's not your cup of tea.

I don't think it's hyperbole at all. I think most fanfic is crapola. I continue to read because there are rare instances where I run across something good. And, then it's worth it. But, most if it is not very good.

Thank you for offering your advice, though.

Sorry.

Ha! Well then you only have yourself to blame. I generally just wait for recommendations.

 

[Orphalesion]

But that's just hyperbole. There is a LOT more 'fanwank' than there is official Trek and the best of it is FAR better than the worst of official Trek. Some fans are just official writers that haven't been employed to write official Trek yet after all.

My advice is to stop reading all the unofficial stuff if it's not your cup of tea.

I don't think it's hyperbole at all. I think most fanfic is crapola. I continue to read because there are rare instances where I run across something good. And, then it's worth it. But, most if it is not very good.

Thank you for offering your advice, though.

Sorry.

Ha! Well then you only have yourself to blame. I generally just wait for recommendations.

There's a trope for that: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SturgeonsLaw

Sturgeon's Law: 99% of everything produced is poop. While I'd say that is a bit oversimplifying and there's many degrees of poopiness I largely agree with it.

However in this thread we're just having fun. No TV executive is going to browse this and say "Brilliant! That's what we're gonna do for the next ST series"

 

[Maurice]

90%

 

[plynch]

Funny that such a humane writer should be remembered for that. I'd say the percentage went up with the internet. The amount of "content" seems exponentially higher than before. So, so much of it is meh at best. Perhaps there is a new law where the meh percentage is up.

 

[Orphalesion]

^ Nah I just mistyped and didn't notice. That's why it's so much more difficult for new writers these days. Everybody and their grandma has access to a word processor.
Really all that keeps people from trying to publish their half-baked slash fanfiction is the dawn of copyright laws. A lot of earlier literature is fanfiction: The Lovecraft universe has a bunch of published fanfiction from Lovecraft's friends, during the Middle Ages they liked their (reinterpreted) Troy fanfiction. There are more examples but I can't really think of them right now. Though a modern example is "Beyond the Dawn" a Lord of the Rings fanfic that was published in Russia, where it is so popular that people hold it at the same level as the books by Tolkien.

 

[Kor]

I think Sturgeon was reacting to peoples' complaints about so much bad science fiction. Something like, "Of course 90% of SF is ****. 90% of EVERYTHING is ****!"

Kor

 

[TRON JA307020]

Take the Fantastic Four reboot that is coming out. They changed the Human Torch from a white young 20 something to a black 20 something. Why? Most fans of the fantastic four know exactly why the creator of the movie have done it and so far are turned off by it. They could easily have created a new black character for the movie but instead decided to make a statement and show how progressive they were. The problem is they changed the dynamic and Sue and Johnny are now adoptive brother and sister. It smacks of pandering to minorities to get them to come to the theater. Its not really progressive but in a way kind of racist. There are so many great black characters in the marvel universe that they haven't used and to just change the white ones to black is totally idiotic and lazy.

Or... they picked the best actor for the job and adjusted the back story accordingly. Or... they had the intent from the start and since blended families are no longer unique they decided to reflect the change in society.

Many of these characters were created when white folks ruled supreme over the United States. These changes reflect that is no longer the case.

It still smacks of white liberal guilt tokenism and it only hurts minorities. The liberal white male has to help minorities because only they can. Yuck.

 

[BillJ]

It still smacks of white liberal guilt tokenism and it only hurts minorities. The liberal white male has to help minorities because only they can. Yuck.

How exactly does changing the color of a fictional character hurt minorities? I'm intensely curious.

 

[Garak]

[Q
Take the Fantastic Four reboot that is coming out. They changed the Human Torch from a white young 20 something to a black 20 something. Why? Most fans of the fantastic four know exactly why the creator of the movie have done it and so far are turned off by it.

That's not true at all. It was widely accepted and only a small portion of people cried like children over it, inadvertently exposing how bitter and lame they are.

 

[Rincewiend]

Take the Fantastic Four reboot that is coming out. They changed the Human Torch from a white young 20 something to a black 20 something. Why? Most fans of the fantastic four know exactly why the creator of the movie have done it and so far are turned off by it. They could easily have created a new black character for the movie but instead decided to make a statement and show how progressive they were. The problem is they changed the dynamic and Sue and Johnny are now adoptive brother and sister. It smacks of pandering to minorities to get them to come to the theater. Its not really progressive but in a way kind of racist. There are so many great black characters in the marvel universe that they haven't used and to just change the white ones to black is totally idiotic and lazy.

And in 1961 they changed him from an Android into a white young 20 something human male...
So not exactly new what they've done...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Torch_(android)

 

[TRON JA307020]

It still smacks of white liberal guilt tokenism and it only hurts minorities. The liberal white male has to help minorities because only they can. Yuck.

How exactly does changing the color of a fictional character hurt minorities? I'm intensely curious.

There are plenty of sci fi, super hero etc. characters that are not white. Blade, Luke Cage, John Stewart/Green Lantern, The Falcon etc. there are more. I am 100% Italian and if some Hollywood idiot decided to make the Human Torch of Italian descent I would not be happy. Tokenism in Hollywood hurts minorities in several ways. Usually it is a liberal white director that is directing the film that has changed the race of a main or other specific character. That alone gives the impression that only a white liberal male can help minorities. Black people know what tokenism is and most don't like it. Its pandering. You will never see a movie reboot with a white Blade or Spawn. There are plenty of black characters out there and news ones being written all the time. Its better to let creations stand as the creator intended instead of using them to make a statement and appease white guilt and pander to other races.

 

[Pauln6]

I'm not 100% bothered either way. In the last movies Alicia Winters was black and it didn't bother me a bit. Jessica Alba is at least partially Hispanic isn't she? I haven't really bothered to follow the casting as I'm more of an X-man fan, which has its own more racially diverse history. It's more of an issue if he's a different ethnicity to his sister really.

Was the comic version of Blade black originally? I thought he was Romany? Nick Fury's racial conversion was so popular they effectively converted him in the comics too. I don't think it's anything to get overly sensitive about.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I'm not 100% bothered either way. In the last movies Alicia Winters was black and it didn't bother me a bit. Jessica Alba is at least partially Hispanic isn't she? I haven't really bothered to follow the casting as I'm more of an X-man fan, which has its own more racially diverse history. It's more of an issue if he's a different ethnicity to his sister really.

Was the comic version of Blade black originally? I thought he was Romany? Nick Fury's racial conversion was so popular they effectively converted him in the comics too. I don't think it's anything to get overly sensitive about.

Nick Fury in the Ultimate Marvel universe comics is black. Nick Fury in the Marvel Universe Comic is still white but his son who is black has now taken over and looks like the Ultimate version of Fury.

I am more sensitive about the reasons and the pandering. Minorities are quite capable of reaching greatness in anything on their own they don't need or want help from white people who think only they can help them achieve it. The attitudes of white liberal hollywood is so fake and really self serving in the long run. Most want major black heroes such as Luke Cage or the Black Panther on screen the way they were written not some small bone that's thrown to them.