Hercules/Xena (Spoilers)

[kirk55555]

I don't know. The actor playing Young Hercules in this episode played him I a few episodes of Hercules, and the TV movie for Young Hercules, but not the YH series. But, the wiki says the flashbacks seem to take place after Hercules had left Cheiron's Academy, placing the flashbacks in this episode after the Young Hercules series.

 

[kirk55555]

Punch Lines (Xena) - This was a clip show with a decent framing story. Actually, it kind of had two. The main framing story was Gabrielle telling aphrodite about her day, while the falshbacks to earlier that day also had flashbacks. During the day, Gabrielle annoys the god of dispair, who shrinks Argo, and later Gabrielle. This leads to some funny scenes, especially at the end when Xena sees mini-Argo. There is also a completely ridiculous pie throwing fight at the end that is entertainingly goofy. Overall, when it comes to clip shows, this one was decent.

 

[kirk55555]

God Fearing Child (Xena) - I'm just going to say this right now: I HATE the fact that the show has gotten a theme of showing the "end of the greek gods". Whether its implying that not-christians are ising up like with the Eli stuff, or outright killing them off, its stupid. I like the greek Mythology, its at the core of why the Xena/Hercules universe is cool. I've never had any desire to see the fall of the greek gods, so this episode was pretty intolerable. Plus, all I can think about is that we're really close to the horrible time jump, and the pointless death of Joxer and a bunch of greek gods.

So, yeah, this was pretty bad. Also, the elysian fields do seem like a horrible place, I don't really blame Solan for not basically becoming a goldfish. It was nice to see Hercules, but like I said I didn't like the situation. Overall, the episode wasn't made badly, but I HATE the premise, and I especially hate that they're protecting the thing that will grow up to murder Joxer

 

[DWF]

God Fearing Child as the only Xena ep. written Orci and Kurtzman and really was meant as a late cross over with Hercules. Kevin Sorbo had already gone on to Andromeda by this point, hence his short hair and his weight loss. And really it was time for Ted Raimi to move on as well. This ep. kind of made Hera into a good guy so to speak. And the gods were more than tiring at this point, but we know that many of them survived to the present day, but it was time for Xena to move on away from the older storylines. Poor Kevin Smith died not long after the season ended.

 

[kirk55555]

God Fearing Child as the only Xena ep. written Orci and Kurtzman and really was meant as a late cross over with Hercules. Kevin Sorbo had already gone on to Andromeda by this point, hence his short hair and his weight loss. And really it was time for Ted Raimi to move on as well. This ep. kind of made Hera into a good guy so to speak. And the gods were more than tiring at this point, but we know that many of them survived to the present day, but it was time for Xena to move on away from the older storylines. Poor Kevin Smith died not long after the season ended.

Well, I definitely don't agree about Raimi. The ONLY good episodes of season 4 Xena had Ted Raimi. Joxer being absent from so much of Season 4 really hurt it. The season could really have used him, since Xena and Gabrielle were both fairly unlikeable for the majority of the season.

When the "older storylines" were from when Xena was actually a good show, I don't want to see them go. The show is the supporting cast, especially since both the main characters spent season 4 being unlikeable idiots and Xena spent half of Season 5 barely doing anything because she was pregnant. Without Joxer, Ares, and Aphrodite there would be barely anything keeping me watching season 4 and 5. Plus, they don't even "move away" from the really bad storylines. The Eli stuff continues into Season 6, and I think even Hope shows back up.

Also, its Greek Mythology. The gods are the point, especially when I'm sympathizing with Zeus more than Xena. I only starting watching Xena/Hercules because of the greek mythology. I sure as heck am not watching it for the Christianity stuff, or the horrible Ancient Chinese Magic, and they've basically ruined Xena and Gabrielle as characters. Honestly, I'm about done with Xena. The writing never recovered from season 4, and Season 6 doubles down on the Christianity stuff, while giving Eve a free pass for doing the kind of things Xena is still trying to atone for. They're killing off one of the the only characters on the show who hasn't turned to garbage over the last few seasons (the others being Ares and Aphrodite), and I already know they treat his death like he was a one shot character.

I'll probably get through the rest of Season 5, if only to see more Joxer before he's gone (I will not be watching Married with Fishsticks though, and if someone doesn't like that I really don't care). I'm also morbidly curious how so many season 6 episodes were put on the Xena 10th anniversary DVD a few years ago, apparently voted for by fans. So, I'm probably not done yet, and probably have about a 75% chance of continuing until the end. But the show has definitely left its best stuff far behind, and I doubt it will ever be a good show again. Hercules has managed to stay much more consistently good, not generally being as good as the best Xena but with far less garbage.

 

[DWF]

I only said that Ted Raimi and is brother Sam would move on to other things. And really from your point of view years of both Hercules and Xena has taken only months. There's some good stories in the final season the ring trilogy I thought was a good one and I know I"m one of the few who liked the Motherhood storyline, but jumping the show forward in time was IMO creatively a good move.

 

[kirk55555]

Jumping the show forward in time meant none of the supporting cast could return. Joxer basically had to either be left at home or killed because he was too old. There was no reason to skip ahead 25 years, its just more hack writing that the show has suffered from since Season 4. Since Season 6 is partially about the woman who killed one of only three remaining good characters on the show basically becoming late season 4 Gabrielle, I'm pretty sure Xena season 6 is the worst thing I could possibly imagine.

As far as I'm concerned, the show ends with the time skip. Xena and Gabrielle actually die and never wake up. It sounds better than them leaving the good characters behind and then screwing around with more Christianity stuff (I'm surprised they didn't make Xena team up with the actual Jesus, since the show has more Christianity in it than your average bible themed show). So, yeah, I've basically decided I'm stopping with Looking Death in the Eye. That gives me seven more episodes, while my ending leaves Joxer alive and two characters that have mostly sucked since Season 4 apparently dead/entombed forever. A bad ending, but better than what comes after, or Xena's actual series finale.

 

[DWF]

If I remember correctly Joxer isn't killed off and the ring trilogy is certainly worth watching. And really not much has changed after the time jump, it only means that Livia is a grown woman by that time.

 

[kirk55555]

If I remember correctly Joxer isn't killed off and the ring trilogy is certainly worth watching. And really not much has changed after the time jump, it only means that Livia is a grown woman by that time.

Joxer is murdered by Livia/Eve in the episode titled Eve. Eve is then completely forgiven and proceeds to join Eli's followers, basically getting Gabrielle's old "way of Love" persona from season 4, but apparently even more boring. So, a character I think is pointless murders one of the three best characters left on the show, then the killer becomes a new variation "Way of Love" Gabrielle, the worst character in the entire series.

Seeing Xena screw up Norse Mythology really isn't enough to make me stomach the other stuff (seriously, Xena was a valkyrie? ), especially when Xena isn't a character I particularly care about anymore. As far as I'm concerned I'm watching a show about the Adventures of Joxer, Ares and Aphrodite, co-starring a pair of poorly written characters named Xena and Gabrielle. I doubt Season 6 will be able to save a show that peaked in Season 3, especially with most of the interesting gods and supporting characters gone, and a renewed focus on Eli's followers and more shoehorned Christian stories.

 

[Timewalker]

As someone who has studied 1st-century Roman history for many years, I was appalled by the cartoonish take on the Julio-Claudians in Xena. Come on - the historical Octavian really was married to a woman named Livia, but she was determined to put her own son, Tiberius, on the imperial throne and thus take the Empire away from the Julii and put it into the hands of her own family, the Claudians. There's no room for any Xena-type BS in this.

The only decent I, Claudius crossover I ever read was one I ran across on fanfiction.net, and was an I, Claudius/Stargate story. This Xena stuff is just... garbage, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Forbin]

I agree on a general dislike of this turn of events on the show, with the death of the gods and the Christian theology intruding. For another thing, it nails down exact historical dates, which should never have happened on Xena.

 

[kirk55555]

Eternal Bonds (Xena) - This was a mixed episode. I liked the Joxer/Gabrielle stuff, but didn't care for the Ares/Xena stuff. While some people really seem to hate him, I consider Joxer a big element of the show and Ted Raimi could do a good job with serious stuff, like he did here. The big fight between Xena/Gabrielle and the armies of three gods was entertaining, but the fight scenes are usually at least decent even when the episode isn't. The Ares/Xena stuff was just kind of pointless, there is basically no chance of Xena/Ares hooking up, so it just felt like a retread of Ares other attempts to sway her. Overall I liked part of this episode, but found the other half fairly uninteresting.

 

[kirk55555]

Amphipolis Under Siege (Xena) - This was a mediocre episode. I spent most of it cheering for athena, especially once Xena convinced people to help her because they don't need the gods, they have Eli's way. Since I loathe Eli, as a viewer I instantly start cheering for his opposite number, and the fact that I'm already inclined to cheer for the greek gods just made me loathe Xena in this episode. I'm not saying I want to see baby Eve killed, but I'm definitely not a fan of killing the greek gods, especially if the alternative is Eli's cult. This also had huge plot holes.

Also, Athena can instantly teleport anywhere, even be invisible to people (like all the greek gods), but she doesn't use these abilities to instantly kill Eve? She could do it in a second, and we've seen greek gods kill mortals directly before, so this whole episode, heck the whole "hunt for eve" storyline, is really stupid if you think about it for one second. Overall, this episode sucked.

Married with Fishsticks (Xena) - I skipped this one, and I don't care if that annoys someone. It seems to be one of the most hated Xena episodes, and I've loathed the few episodes similar to it.

Lifeblood/Kindred Spirits (Xena) - I'm lumping these two together. They're your average bad Amazon episodes, except that Lifeblood was made using footage of the stupidest spin off pilot possibly in history, Amazon High. Whoever thought that would work was either a moron or off their rocker. Either way, time traveling girl was irritating, and the episode was lame. Kindred Spirits was just a completely standard Amazon episode, so it was very mediocre and a waste of time.

Antony & Cleopatra (Xena) - This episode was completely worthless. The Rome stuff should have ended with Caesar's death, since he was the only part that really worked. This episode had basically nothing that worked. It was extremely bland and mediocre.

So, there is only one episode left. Will Looking Death in the Eye end the series (for me, at least) on a high note? I'm betting not, but I guess I'll see soon.

 

[Forbin]

Isn't it amazing that a series can introduce a Christ allegory and make us HATE him!

Fishsticks was probably the stupidest of a lot of stupid episodes. It had some laughs, but won't blame you for skipping it.

Lifeblood confused me until I found out about the spinoff. But I Selma Blair, so I watch it.

 

[kirk55555]

Isn't it amazing that a series can introduce a Christ allegory and make us HATE him!

Yeah, I felt kind of bad about it for a bit, but in the end he's just a horrible character. Its not like I have a problem with people wanting peace, but Eli was just irritating. Ares sticking a sword through Eli made me cheer, which I don't think was the intention of the scene Unfortunately he came back as an angel, but honestly I feel lucky they didn't just say screw it and have him come back from the dead three days later

 

[Timewalker]

Married with Fishsticks (Xena) - I skipped this one, and I don't care if that annoys someone. It seems to be one of the most hated Xena episodes, and I've loathed the few episodes similar to it.

Yeah, that one was a waste of pretty much everything. What a dumb episode. You didn't miss a thing.

 

[kirk55555]

Looking Death in the Eye (Xena) - Xena goes out with a whimper. The plot holes in this twilight story are just hilarious at this point. All of the gods have the power to kill Eve by themselves, everything from random fireballs from the heavens to teleporting and instantly killing Eve (seriously, they could have killed Eve at any time in Xena's home town). But, they mostly act less effectively than most warlords of the week. Xena's plan was stupid. Why would Death's tears give someone the appearance of death? Well, its not my problem anymore.

Overall, as a series, Xena at its best was a glorious adventure, and at its worst a pretentious pile of #$%^. It had three solid seasons (well, Season three was shaky but its good episodes were very good), one horrible season and a fifth season that was mostly mediocre.

Its really hard to pick a favorite episode, so I'll just list a bunch that I really enjoyed: Been There Done That, Warrior...Princess (and its sequels, basically every Xena lookalike episode), King of Assassins, Key to the Kingdom, The Royal Couple of Thieves, Orphan of War, A Solstice Carol, Lost mariner, The Furies, The Quill is Mightier..., Maternal Instincts, Fins, Femmes, and Gems, In Sickness and In Hell. I'll also add Chakram and Succession to that list since, while they're not nearly as good as the listed episodes or a bunch of episodes I didn't list, they're rare in that they were actually decent episodes in season 5.

I could go on about the bad episodes, but I'll just say that I hated the whole Hope arc (except Maternal Instincts) and everything related to Eli and "the way of love". I'll single out Paradise Found though, since it was the beginning of Gabrielle's "way of love" persona.

When it comes to characters, it took awhile for gabrielle to grow on me, but once she did I liked her, until the "way of love stuff". Xena was pretty good from the beginning, but Season 5 made her fairly unlikeable. Joxer didn't have the strongest start, but by the end I considered him indispensable. Aphrodite was also a bit annoying in the beginning, but I ended up really liking her as a character, and her brother Ares. I'm glad that (looking online) Xena doesn't murder Aphrodite, since I could easily see Season 5 Xena doing that just for fun.

I'll probably keep watching Hercules, but with my Season 4 set being partially defective it won't be consistent, so I don't plan to make anymore write ups about it. I'll just say that, while it only rarely gets as good as Xena's best episodes, Hercules is a lot more consistent, especially compared to the last few seasons of Xena.

Its been a long trip, and I don't regret it. I just wish Xena had kept getting better, and not peaked at Season 3. Heck, if it had kept the quality of the good season 3 episodes it could easily be one of my favorite shows. But it didn't, so its something I enjoy a lot when its good, but not on my list of favorite TV shows.

 

[Forbin]

There are 3 more season 5 eps, aren't there? Don't want to give them a shot?

You probably explained it earlier, but why aren't you going to do season 6?

 

[kirk55555]

There are 3 more season 5 eps, aren't there? Don't want to give them a shot?

You probably explained it earlier, but why aren't you going to do season 6?

I refuse to watch Joxer die. By Season 5 I have been literally only watching the show for Joxer, Ares and Aphrodite. I'm not going to watch a character murder Joxer then get instantly forgiven. Eve does stuff Xena is still trying to atone for years later, but because Eve becomes one of Eli's idiot followers she's instantly forgiven? Yeah, I'm not watching that, which is why I chose the episode I did to end the show. Joxer is still alive, and Xena and Gabrielle are locked away for all eternity. The three remaining Season 5 episodes involve Joxer's murder, Xena and gabrielle instantly forgetting about it and forgiving Eve and then Eve becoming Season 4 Gabrielle basically. So, yeah, I'd rather just save myself the pain.

As for Season 6, I'm not watching Xena after the time skip. No Joxer = no viewing. Yes, I know that he is actually in flashbacks in an episode of Season 6, but its not the same thing. Xena and Gabrielle have been two of the worst characters on the show for awhile. I really don't care about them anymore, so I have no desire to watch the show after an idiotic time skip and a murder of one of the three remaining good characters on the show.

Xena dies in Japan to a random villain from her past that we've never heard of, all because the people in charge wanting a Series finale that very casual viewers could understand (Tapert actually said as much in an interview). So, we don't even get real closure with the actual series finale. My way, the future of the Xena/Hercules universe is an open book, one without Xena or Gabrielle but still with Ares, Aphrodite and Joxer. That's just about the happiest ending that could be expected at this point. There is nothing in Season 6 that could top that. The writing has been generally horrible since Season 4, and I doubt Season 6 would be an improvement, even if I could get past Eve not dying for her crimes, the time skip and Joxer being gone.