Should Sisko have refused to let Kira use the Orb Time in Wrongs Darker Then Death or Night? It seems like letting her use it was a dangerous thing to do, she could have polluted the time line, heck she almost did by trying to assassinate Dukat and her own mother.
Should Sisko have refused to let Kira use the Orb Time?
- Thread starter The Overlord
- Start date
Not to mention, that the last time they used it, they first wiped out the federation from reality.
Yes from both an in-universe explanation AND a storytelling one:
-In-Story Reason: There had already been cases when messing around with the timeline had nearly led to disaster. So letting Kira time-travel, especially for such a petty reason, was stupid on Sisko's part.
-Story-telling Reason: Time travel was already an overused trope in ST back then. But at least there was an attempt to justify it as being really important in other cases. This was just such an ultimately mundane motivation that using it to justify going to time-travel AGAIN was just lame.
-In-Story Reason: There had already been cases when messing around with the timeline had nearly led to disaster. So letting Kira time-travel, especially for such a petty reason, was stupid on Sisko's part.
-Story-telling Reason: Time travel was already an overused trope in ST back then. But at least there was an attempt to justify it as being really important in other cases. This was just such an ultimately mundane motivation that using it to justify going to time-travel AGAIN was just lame.
Yes, Kira's personal curiosity is a really lame reason for time travel. Plus at the end of the story Sisko is not even shocked when he learns that Kira tried to kill dukat which would have resulted in dramatic changes to the timeline. It's as if he was sleepwalking the final scene...
I'm not sure how much jurisdiction Sisko has. It's a Bajoran orb, hence their property, so what right does he have to keep another Bajoran from using it? Even if it's Kira, an officer under his command, it would be considered an internal Bajoran religious matter.
Hell, even the Department of Temporal Investigations couldn't take the orb away or prevent anyone from using it.
Hell, even the Department of Temporal Investigations couldn't take the orb away or prevent anyone from using it.
It seems that Kira would have done whatever Sisko would have decided though. As she told him several times previously.
But I'm not sure Kira would have taken kindly to anyone, even her own CO, interfering in a personal religious matter.
Because that's exactly what orb experiences are. The Orbs are religious icons, and Starfleet is not in the business of restricting the personal religious freedoms of anyone (especially those who aren't in Starfleet).
And as I said, not even the DTI can take control of the Orb (it's property of the Bajoran government) or forbid anyone from using it. If the Bajoran government says you can use the Orb, then you can, and the Federation has no say in the matter.
Because that's exactly what orb experiences are. The Orbs are religious icons, and Starfleet is not in the business of restricting the personal religious freedoms of anyone (especially those who aren't in Starfleet).
And as I said, not even the DTI can take control of the Orb (it's property of the Bajoran government) or forbid anyone from using it. If the Bajoran government says you can use the Orb, then you can, and the Federation has no say in the matter.
Kira basically said that without Sisko's help she would never get permission to use the Orb. So whether he had a right to it or not, it's clear that he had total control over Kira getting to the orb.
^ That was probably because of Sisko's status as the Emissary.
I agree. That gave him much political clout over the Bajorans in general.
^ The reason I mentioned that, though, is because it wasn't Sisko's Starfleet rank or position (as Kira's CO) that allowed him to control whether Kira was allowed to use the Orb.
If it was any other officer in that position, they would not have any say in the matter. Sisko is the Emissary, so the Bajoran government listens to him. His role as a Bajoran religious figure is what gives him the right, because this is a religious matter.
(I should have been more clear on this, BTW. When I first questioned Sisko's jurisdiction I didn't even think of his status as the Emissary.)
If it was any other officer in that position, they would not have any say in the matter. Sisko is the Emissary, so the Bajoran government listens to him. His role as a Bajoran religious figure is what gives him the right, because this is a religious matter.
(I should have been more clear on this, BTW. When I first questioned Sisko's jurisdiction I didn't even think of his status as the Emissary.)
That's ok. We all forget some details sometimes.
The Orb should have granted Kira a vision of the past. Actually travelling to the past makes little sense, as was demonstrated by the previous posts in this thread.
Don't know why the writers chose that option.
Don't know why the writers chose that option.
DS9 was looser with the rules with regard to "polluting the timeline" than, for instance, Voyager. Just take a look at that Gabriel Bell--that's not how I remember him looking!
Anyway, time travel by Prophet seems to work differently than other means of time travel shown in ST. Akorem can go back in time, live his life and complete his work, but people in the present can remember his unsolved disappearance and incomplete poems. It is possible that they don't allow actions taken by time travellers using Orbs to have ripple effects into the future. If Bashir really should have been his own grandfather, the Prophets might not be willing to let him disappear in the present, and intervene appropriately.
Anyway, time travel by Prophet seems to work differently than other means of time travel shown in ST. Akorem can go back in time, live his life and complete his work, but people in the present can remember his unsolved disappearance and incomplete poems. It is possible that they don't allow actions taken by time travellers using Orbs to have ripple effects into the future. If Bashir really should have been his own grandfather, the Prophets might not be willing to let him disappear in the present, and intervene appropriately.
I don't recall that ever happening.
"Trials and Tribble-ations"
^ The Orb of Time did appear in that episode, but it didn't wipe out the Federation.
Here's a question. Why aren't the Cardassians ruling the Alpha + Beta Quadrants? The Carddies had the orb and gave it back to the Feds/Bajorans. Trials and Tribblations established that:
1. You don't have the be Bajoran to use the orb.
2. You don't have to be a believer in the prophets to use the orb.
3. The orb will transport you back in time and you can meddle with the timeline and change history.
4. The orb or the prophets will transport you back to the future. With the effects of your actions taking effect in the future you returned to.
With all the Orb of Time can do, the seemingly unlimited applications for it's use and the lack of risk for using it to achieve one's own goals. Why aren't the Cardassians ruling the universe? Also why didn't Sisko think to use the orb to go back and save Jennifer? Or change how FC with the Dominion happened or prevent the massive amount of casualties that resulted from the war?
I can think of any number of things that would make the DS9's crew easier by simple application of the Orb of Time. Once again, just like with the Nexus on GEN. The writers came up with an omnipowerful object/force but failed to define it and it's limitations.
1. You don't have the be Bajoran to use the orb.
2. You don't have to be a believer in the prophets to use the orb.
3. The orb will transport you back in time and you can meddle with the timeline and change history.
4. The orb or the prophets will transport you back to the future. With the effects of your actions taking effect in the future you returned to.
With all the Orb of Time can do, the seemingly unlimited applications for it's use and the lack of risk for using it to achieve one's own goals. Why aren't the Cardassians ruling the universe? Also why didn't Sisko think to use the orb to go back and save Jennifer? Or change how FC with the Dominion happened or prevent the massive amount of casualties that resulted from the war?
I can think of any number of things that would make the DS9's crew easier by simple application of the Orb of Time. Once again, just like with the Nexus on GEN. The writers came up with an omnipowerful object/force but failed to define it and it's limitations.
Given the specific points made in the pilot, it would be safe to assume that the Prophets denied the Cardassians the use of all Orbs. Moreover, they seemed to have punished those who misused them, like the Grand Nagus.
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