DS9 on blu ray?

[Admiral Bear]

I'd be happy for now with a teaser Blu-ray, as was done with TNG, with the original footage scanned in HD, and the visual effects left in SD. Say 5 episodes from across the 7 seasons.

If it looks like crap, at least we'll all know and can stop asking for it.

 

[Relayer1]

I'd be happy for now with a teaser Blu-ray, as was done with TNG, with the original footage scanned in HD, and the visual effects left in SD. Say 5 episodes from across the 7 seasons.

If it looks like crap, at least we'll all know and can stop asking for it.

As long as it's better than the upscaled reproduction achieved from the current DVD's, I'll get it.

With the proviso that unless it's a limited edition I only ever buy well after release when it's reduced...

 

[MikeS]

So you're all telling me that even if I buy these things I won't be able to play them in a few years when my player inevitably dies? Bloody hell. Consumer, throw-away society gone mad.

 

[BillJ]

So you're all telling me that even if I buy these things I won't be able to play them in a few years when my player inevitably dies? Bloody hell. Consumer, throw-away society gone mad.

You can still buy Laserdisc players and VCR's on Ebay. You'll be able to find something to play the discs.

 

[DragonQ]

So you're all telling me that even if I buy these things I won't be able to play them in a few years when my player inevitably dies? Bloody hell. Consumer, throw-away society gone mad.

No. This is the digital age, the data exists thus it is obtainable. Even if your discs die or your player dies, you can always find the material online, and probably a remux without extra compression.

 

[Lance]

I'd be happy for now with a teaser Blu-ray, as was done with TNG, with the original footage scanned in HD, and the visual effects left in SD. Say 5 episodes from across the 7 seasons.

If it looks like crap, at least we'll all know and can stop asking for it.

Personally, I'd go for either this (as a "test-the-water scenario"), or something like a 'Best of DS9 Collection' and a 'Best of VOY Collection' (as a "worst-case, this-is-all-you're-gonna-get-so-make-the-most-of-it" scenaro).

Of course, the bottom line is that if CBS-D sees no profit in the project, then "neither" is the most likely scenario.

 

[kkt]

You can still buy Laserdisc players and VCR's on Ebay. You'll be able to find something to play the discs.

You can even still get your U-matic videotapes converted to DVD.

 

[asp7485]

I'd be happy for now with a teaser Blu-ray, as was done with TNG, with the original footage scanned in HD, and the visual effects left in SD. Say 5 episodes from across the 7 seasons.

If it looks like crap, at least we'll all know and can stop asking for it.

Personally, I'd go for either this (as a "test-the-water scenario"), or something like a 'Best of DS9 Collection' and a 'Best of VOY Collection' (as a "worst-case, this-is-all-you're-gonna-get-so-make-the-most-of-it" scenaro).

While I would be likely to buy any blu-ray release of DS9 or VOY, I wouldn't be satisfied unless we got the whole series. A "best of' collection would be particularly tough for DS9, because the whole of the series is so great. The episodes play so much better in context than on their own. I can pick a random episode of TNG or VOY to watch, but with DS9, I've found the only ways I can enjoy the episodes is to watch them start to finish (skipping a few for sure, but watching way more than I skip).

I hope that we will see a few years wait while CBS watches how TNG-R fares in streaming and (hopefully) syndicated markets and develops ideas on how a DS9 and VOY remaster can be profitable. Whenever more remastering does happen, I can see it coming out on discs as there will be people who'd buy it. I think it could selling the discs would work if they do a limited release (similar to how those expanded Star Trek soundtracks are now sold), and focus on getting profits from streaming sources?

 

[MikeS]

So you're all telling me that even if I buy these things I won't be able to play them in a few years when my player inevitably dies? Bloody hell. Consumer, throw-away society gone mad.

No. This is the digital age, the data exists thus it is obtainable. Even if your discs die or your player dies, you can always find the material online, and probably a remux without extra compression.

That's not the point. I bought the physical media because I want to be able to play it when I want to. I didn't buy the discs only to buy it again online.

BillJ's response is fair play though.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Call me a dinosaur, but I never have and never will buy anything digital. I don't want to be at the mercy of my internet connection (screw you, Time Warner!) or a company deciding they're going to shut down the servers for maintenance or need the bandwidth for whatever else the hell they're streaming. I want to be able to watch something WHEN I want to watch it, not when it's convenient for my internet or CBS Digital. My Blu-Ray collection is just fine, thanks.

Note: Everyone was up in arms when Microsoft announced the always-on DRM for Xbox One and cheered when they dropped it. I can tell you now, that all though you still need the disc to play a game, if your profile can't sign in to Microsoft's servers, the Xbox One becomes a giant paperweight. That's exactly where these digital only movies and shows are going.

And to all those who look down on us who still prefer physical media, what if a solar flare or something fries Paramount/CBS's servers? Well, kiss your beloved Star Trek (whether it be TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY or... *gasp* ENT) goodbye. Everyone acts like these servers will be up and running forever, but that's not the case.

 

[MikeS]

^ Well said.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Call me a dinosaur, but I never have and never will buy anything digital.

You mean that you never have bought and never intend to buy without getting physical media, right? Because Blu-ray is a digital format, i.e. it's digital.

My Blu-Ray collection is just fine, thanks.

And to all those who look down on us who still prefer physical media, what if a solar flare or something fries Paramount/CBS's servers?

If a solar flare took out Paramount/CBS's servers, then losing Star Trek would be the least of our concerns. Perhaps you were just being hyperbolic, and it's only really the "or something" that you're worried about, because it's far more likely that they would simply elect not to make Star Trek available for streaming online, than it would for all of Paramount/CBS's master copies to be destroyed by solar radiation or any other natural disaster or act of sabotage. Ya?

 

[Salinga]

The streaming digital age: When you are old, all the movies, music, books and images of you are lost and you sit at your home and stare at empty walls.

 

[Lance]

I hope that we will see a few years wait while CBS watches how TNG-R fares in streaming and (hopefully) syndicated markets and develops ideas on how a DS9 and VOY remaster can be profitable. Whenever more remastering does happen, I can see it coming out on discs as there will be people who'd buy it. I think it could selling the discs would work if they do a limited release (similar to how those expanded Star Trek soundtracks are now sold), and focus on getting profits from streaming sources?

I share these hopes, but I imagine that if they were going to be released on an optical disc format, the restoration certainly won't be to the level of TNG-R. This project seems to have been budgeted on the assumption that the home video (ie. 'Blu-Ray') sales would reach a certain profitability, a state of affairs which obviously hasn't happened. Basically, they used projected sales to convince the stakeholders of the integrity of the outlay of cash in the beginning, and unfortunately sales haven't actually met that anticipated level.

What I'm saying is that any DS9/VOY project would likely be a stripped down restoration based on the new figures. Now that they've got those TNG-R figures to work with, the budget for the restoration process will be drawn within the defined boundries of how well TNG-R has sold on disc, to minimise the risks of losing more money. Not to say they can't do some good work within that reduced budget, but it won't quite be to the same level of quality that TNG-R is... unless the technology gets cheaper.

In any case, it would be clear to them after this experience that they can no longer 'trust' the projected sales of physical disc sets as a barometer for setting the budget for the project in the beginning...

Call me a dinosaur, but I never have and never will buy anything digital. I don't want to be at the mercy of my internet connection (screw you, Time Warner!) or a company deciding they're going to shut down the servers for maintenance or need the bandwidth for whatever else the hell they're streaming. I want to be able to watch something WHEN I want to watch it, not when it's convenient for my internet or CBS Digital. My Blu-Ray collection is just fine, thanks.

Note: Everyone was up in arms when Microsoft announced the always-on DRM for Xbox One and cheered when they dropped it. I can tell you now, that all though you still need the disc to play a game, if your profile can't sign in to Microsoft's servers, the Xbox One becomes a giant paperweight. That's exactly where these digital only movies and shows are going.And to all those who look down on us who still prefer physical media, what if a solar flare or something fries Paramount/CBS's servers? Well, kiss your beloved Star Trek (whether it be TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY or... *gasp* ENT) goodbye. Everyone acts like these servers will be up and running forever, but that's not the case.

Well said, and on a fundamental level I agree with you (I've been expressing similar sentiments for years, and you're absolutely right re: the XBone and in general DRM; the SimCity launch debacle on PC, with users being unable to play their brand new game because EAs servers were down on day one, is a case in point). I too am dubious of these things, but I've become resigned to the fact in more recent years that physical media is now on the nose. It's not for any lack of support from me, however. The trouble is that it seems that the industry itself is taking measures to try and shut down anything that isn't online streaming: they're creating the self-fulfilling-prophecy of physical media dying, because sites like Amazon are now encouraging people not to buy discs any more. I find that bizarre, I feel like a dinosaur with my shelves full of discs, but there you go. I just can't deny anymore where things seem to be headed...

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Call me a dinosaur, but I never have and never will buy anything digital.

You mean that you never have bought and never intend to buy without getting physical media, right? Because Blu-ray is a digital format, i.e. it's digital.

My Blu-Ray collection is just fine, thanks.

And to all those who look down on us who still prefer physical media, what if a solar flare or something fries Paramount/CBS's servers?

If a solar flare took out Paramount/CBS's servers, then losing Star Trek would be the least of our concerns. Perhaps you were just being hyperbolic, and it's only really the "or something" that you're worried about, because it's far more likely that they would simply elect not to make Star Trek available for streaming online, than it would for all of Paramount/CBS's master copies to be destroyed by solar radiation or any other natural disaster or act of sabotage. Ya?

I'm not sitting here worrying about a solar flare knocking out a streaming service, I was just giving the first example that popped in my head It doesn't take a force of nature or act of God for a service to go down for no reason (hacking would be a lot bigger of a concern). Just look at the hackers that took down PSN and Xbox Live on Christmas.

 

[Oso Blanco]

No offense, but I'd say we're all pretty spoiled as entertainment consumers if we consider upscaled dvd-quality video "borderline unwatchable".

Exactly! I've been re-watching DS9 lately, and my BD player seemed to do a pretty good upscaling job. It didn't look bad at all, definitely much better than the old VHS tapes I bought for a lot of money when they came out back then.

I simply cannot and will not pay a shitload of money just to have all my Trek stuff on BD. I bought Enterprise when it was cheap at Amazon, but I wasn't that impressed. I fact, I was pretty annoyed about that "commercial break syndrome" I mentioned early in this thread (I believe).

I didn't buy TNG because I refuse to watch any Star Trek with redone special effects, I'd rather have the original effects upscaled.

And I didn't buy TOS for the same reason, although you might be able to watch the original version via seamless branching, but I was told that there were some screwups with that and I think the TOS DVDs look good enough for me.

 

[Dream]

So is there a reason why they didn't start releasing TNG-R three years ago?

If they did we might be done with DS9-R by now, with CBS deciding that VOY wasn't worth the cost to remaster. I'm sure by now we have all noticed that VOY fans didn't even bother to even start a topic about wanting a remastering for their show in that forum! VOY fans are satisfied with their dvds I guess.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'm not sitting here worrying about a solar flare knocking out a streaming service, I was just giving the first example that popped in my head It doesn't take a force of nature or act of God for a service to go down for no reason (hacking would be a lot bigger of a concern). Just look at the hackers that took down PSN and Xbox Live on Christmas.

Well, this dang Internet, people will say anything!

Streaming services getting hacked and brought down temporarily is one thing and is to be expected with some frequency, I agree. But having all existing digital masters in the corporation, of say a show like Star Trek, destroyed by sabotage is another thing altogether and would be both unprecedented and an appalling milestone in the destruction of contemporary art.

I favor owning physical media myself, so it's not like I'm arguing against the utility of that. I'm just trying to keep things in perspective here.

 

[Praetorian]

No offense, but I'd say we're all pretty spoiled as entertainment consumers if we consider upscaled dvd-quality video "borderline unwatchable".

Exactly! I've been re-watching DS9 lately, and my BD player seemed to do a pretty good upscaling job. It didn't look bad at all, definitely much better than the old VHS tapes I bought for a lot of money when they came out back then.

I simply cannot and will not pay a shitload of money just to have all my Trek stuff on BD. I bought Enterprise when it was cheap at Amazon, but I wasn't that impressed. I fact, I was pretty annoyed about that "commercial break syndrome" I mentioned early in this thread (I believe).

I didn't buy TNG because I refuse to watch any Star Trek with redone special effects, I'd rather have the original effects upscaled.

And I didn't buy TOS for the same reason, although you might be able to watch the original version via seamless branching, but I was told that there were some screwups with that and I think the TOS DVDs look good enough for me.

It is known that the Enterprise Bluray transfer is barely a step up from the dvd release, specially the first three seasons. In fact, when I play one after the other I barely notice a difference. Even on Trekcore's comparison videos it's hard to notice (though it's there and, of course, if you have a huge TV or a projector, you will notice the difference quite quickly).
CBS just rescanned the master tapes or whatever, and upscalled effects shots.

They didn't re-edit and recompose the show, as they did with TNG (and TOS too, I believe)

TNG BD are a huge upgrade, and should be the term of comparison.

DS9 DVD don't look that bad, especially the later seasons, though having rewatched Emissary yesterday, I can safely say it looked goddamned horrible, as does the rest of the first season.

In any case, even the last seasons look bad when compared to the TNG BD.

It's like night and day.

Also, I think you're being unfair to the project, being unwilling to buy TNG BD because they redid some effects.

They had to, some elements simply couldn't be found or would look like crap when upscalled.

TOS, yes, I think they went a little too far in some cases, but, as you said, you can still watch the originals effects.
And in case, the live action footage looks much better than the old DVDs.

But TNG? They were quite conservative, and did what they had to, essentially.

 

[SPCTRE]

I'm not sitting here worrying about a solar flare knocking out a streaming service, I was just giving the first example that popped in my head It doesn't take a force of nature or act of God for a service to go down for no reason (hacking would be a lot bigger of a concern). Just look at the hackers that took down PSN and Xbox Live on Christmas.

Well, this dang Internet, people will say anything!

Streaming services getting hacked and brought down temporarily is one thing and is to be expected with some frequency, I agree. But having all existing digital masters in the corporation, of say a show like Star Trek, destroyed by sabotage is another thing altogether and would be both unprecedented and an appalling milestone in the destruction of contemporary art.

I favor owning physical media myself, so it's not like I'm arguing against the utility of that. I'm just trying to keep things in perspective here.

Meh, physical media will be around forever, it's just that you old timers* (and collector types such as myself) will become a more niche-y segment of the audience.


*only intended as friendly ribbing

People such as Navy soldiers or hermits out in the woods completely without internet can expect to have an increasingly bad time all around, though.