Controversies between fans based on misunderstandings

[alpha_leonis]

I'm one of those old folks, I've been discussing Star Trek on message boards since about as long as there's been an Internet for that purpose. (Is anybody else old enough to have used ISCA BBS back in the early 90s?) I was in Junior High when TNG premiered, and in college when it ended.

(Edit to say, *ahem*, no offense to those of you who were around to watch TOS during its original run.)

I just watched "All Good Things" again, and it brought back memories of what kinds of things Trek fans were discussing back then. I remember, about a year after "All Good Things" (it was still fresh in the minds of a lot of us), when "Generations" came out in theatres for the first time. The movie led to a couple of topics of nitpicky debate -- one of which was, "How could Scotty have witnessed Kirk's apparent death in 'Generations' but still expect Kirk to lead his rescue in 'Relics'" ... (fair question for debate, sure, I'll grant that.)

I remember another one: "How could the Enterprise-D have been destroyed when Admiral Riker still had possession of it in the All Good Things future?" It's a question which completely ignores the scene at the end of AGT that discussed how that potential future was no longer set in stone. I had to shake my head and laugh whenever that question came up, and it came up a lot.

Another one, also related to "Generations". Right after the movie came out, Jonathan Frakes appeared as a guest star on DS9, playing Thomas Riker, who was impersonating William Riker for this particular story. A couple of confused questions came out of that one: "Why did Riker talk about being on leave from the Enterprise when the Enterprise was destroyed?" (Answer, the Stardates in that episode were a couple of hundred less than the Stardates quoted in "Generations". Therefore the DS9 episode occurred first chronologically, even if it was filmed later.)

Also, "What was the event that set Riker and O'Brien at odds with each other? I don't remember seeing that during TNG." (Answer: Because it didn't happen. Thomas didn't want to blow his cover by getting into too deep of a conversation with somebody who knew William as well as O'Brien did. Seriously, some folks needed to be hand-held through it.)

Yet another: in the "Voyager" episode that retroactively placed Tuvok on Excelsior's crew under Captain Sulu during the events of ST6:TUC, a lot of fans complained, "But his Excelsior character was a human! He had round ears!" Misremembering the fact that Tim Russ actually played a human bridge officer on the Enterprise-B during the opening scene of "Generations", an entirely different movie.

These are my "good old days" of Trek fandom. What about yours?

 

[Therin of Andor]

The fan furore caused by the creation of T'Pol, because "Spock was the first/only Vulcan in Starfleet". Forgetting that there was a whole ship of Vulcans running a Starfleet vessel in TOS.

Saavik changing her hair, her eye colour and her whole face!

Angry, opinionated fans not understanding IDIC.

Saying that Star Trek didn't need newcomers on the creative team, while forgetting that they boasted how loved ST II (Bennett, Meyer) and hated TMP (Roddenberry).

 

[alpha_leonis]

Angry, opinionated fans not understanding IDIC.

I do recall a lot of discussion about Tuvok being a black Vulcan, if that's (part of) what you're referring to.

At least, by my time, the fans had stopped discussing how it was conceivably possible that Khan could recognize Chekov. (But how Reliant could miss the non-existence of an entire planet on entry to the Ceti Alpha system, that was still fair game!)

 

[Silvercrest]

I got into a debate at that time (IRL, not online) with someone who questioned the idea of a black Vulcan.

I remember another one: "How could the Enterprise-D have been destroyed when Admiral Riker still had possession of it in the All Good Things future?" It's a question which completely ignores the scene at the end of AGT that discussed how that potential future was no longer set in stone. I had to shake my head and laugh whenever that question came up, and it came up a lot.

Not to mention the fact that the past of that episode wasn't exactly set in stone the entire time. Canonically, in the first episode Picard did not call a red alert as one of his first actions, yammer on about inverse tachyon pulses, or get the ship blown up. It would be foolish to assume that particular future was any more likely.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Angry, opinionated fans not understanding IDIC.

And also not understanding that "IDIC" was just a gimmick created by Gene Roddenberry so he could sell trinkets. Linky

 

[The Wormhole]

When Enterprise introduced Columbia NX-02 and everyone began asking "why does it still use the NX registry? It's no longer experimental, it should be NCC-02." Which ignores the fact that Earth Starfleet did things differently, NX-01 and NX-02 actually mean they are the first and second ships of the NX class.

 

[Orphalesion]

Angry, opinionated fans not understanding IDIC.

And also not understanding that "IDIC" was just a gimmick created by Gene Roddenberry so he could sell trinkets. Linky

Agreed, that's all that it is. Also how do people misunderstand that "there are infinite variables" in the universe? Imho it's one of those things that's meant to sound deep and meaningful but really isn't.

I'd also wish that the Vulcans would remember their "IDIC" wristbands when they go to the hairdresser, that would improve their looks a bit.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

When people assume that since Starfleet isn't military in Enterprise, it must not be military in any other form of Trek - forgetting that they are different Starfleets. The Earth Starfleet in ENT is NOT the same as the Federation Starfleet.

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

I'm one of those old folks, I've been discussing Star Trek on message boards since about as long as there's been an Internet for that purpose. (Is anybody else old enough to have used ISCA BBS back in the early 90s?) I was in Junior High when TNG premiered, and in college when it ended.

(Edit to say, *ahem*, no offense to those of you who were around to watch TOS during its original run.)

Why thank you.

 

[The Wormhole]

When people assume that since Starfleet isn't military in Enterprise, it must not be military in any other form of Trek - forgetting that they are different Starfleets. The Earth Starfleet in ENT is NOT the same as the Federation Starfleet.

To be fair though, folks involved with Enterprise gradually forgot that as the show went on. Most notably, the took great effort to avoid talking about Starfleet Academy, since it hasn't been established yet. Then in the fourth season we see a Starfleet Academy diploma.

 

[borgboy]

I do find the Vulcan IDIC idea a little strange, since what we see of Vulcans they don't seem very diverse at all - they seem very rigid in their lifestyles, clinging to ancient traditions that dictate how they live their lives with no exceptions, your child following a different career path from their father is a socially acceptable reason to disown them, they seem largely condescending to the point of prejudice against many aliens, including humans, etc.

That seems odd that people didn't understand TNG finale's future was a different timeline than Generations, that seems pretty self evident to me.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And of course there's that old thing about "why didn't Voyager head for the Gamma Quadrant wormhole". These people forget at least three things:

1) it is, IIRC, about the same distance (from Voyager's first arrival in the DQ) to the wormhole as it was to DS9.
2) Wormholes, by their vary nature, are unstable. If Voyager had headed for the wormhole, it might not have even been there when they arrived. And they would have gone all that way for nothing.
3) The Dominion.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Also how do people misunderstand that "there are infinite variables" in the universe?

I always took it that "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations" can refer to the many varieties of Trek out there. As someone who loves TAS and TMP, and then saw the rise of TNG (amid the early noise of some diehard TOS fans denouncing it), I find it hard to believe that fans can proclaim IDIC as a personal philosophy and then be racist or misogynistic to other Trek fans, or so hateful about aspects of licensed Trek they don't like as much as other aspects.

 

[Orphalesion]

I always took it that "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations" can refer to the many varieties of Trek out there. As someone who loves TAS and TMP, and then saw the rise of TNG (amid the early noise of some diehard TOS fans denouncing it), I find it hard to believe that fans can proclaim IDIC as a personal philosophy and then be racist or misogynistic to other Trek fans, or so hateful about aspects of licensed Trek they don't like as much as other aspects.

Ah I see! Very nice train of thought

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

3) The Dominion.

The writers of Voyager made it seem as though many of the crew had never heard of the Dominion in "Message in a Bottle." The Doctor apparently had no information regarding Jem'Hadar physiology stored in his database, and neither Chakotay or B'Elanna seemed to know of the Dominion beyond their having slaughtered the Maquis.

Now, we never hear Janeway's reaction to those events; it's certainly possible she'd have heard about the Dominion given the threat they represented to Starfleet. Additionally, I recall seeing a Jem'Hadar solider among the holograms in "Flesh and Blood," which suggests that Voyager had information about the Dominion somewhere in its database. I guess it's just a question of who actually read the material.

--Sran

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Still, though, even if Voyager didn't know of the Dominion, they also could not know of any other civilization which controlled that area of the galaxy. They'd have no idea WHOSE space it was on the GQ side of the wormhole.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^That's true; and as you pointed out, Voyager's crew had no way of knowing whether the wormhole would be open--or who would control the Alpha Quadrant territory on the other side. Perhaps Janeway felt more comfortable taking a route that was somewhat more predictable to her than trying to sneak through a backdoor that either may not have been open or may have been under the control of a power other than the Federation (or Bajor).

--Sran

 

[The Wormhole]

3) The Dominion.

The writers of Voyager made it seem as though many of the crew had never heard of the Dominion in "Message in a Bottle." The Doctor apparently had no information regarding Jem'Hadar physiology stored in his database, and neither Chakotay or B'Elanna seemed to know of the Dominion beyond their having slaughtered the Maquis.

Now, we never hear Janeway's reaction to those events; it's certainly possible she'd have heard about the Dominion given the threat they represented to Starfleet. Additionally, I recall seeing a Jem'Hadar solider among the holograms in "Flesh and Blood," which suggests that Voyager had information about the Dominion somewhere in its database. I guess it's just a question of who actually read the material.

--Sran

Also, the episode Parturition from the second season show's a shuttle flight simulator on the holodeck which includes an attacking Jem'Hadar ship.

 

[EnriqueH]

Hey!

Don't be knocking IDIC.

Sure, it was created to cash in, but so what?

It's STILL a great concept, very Star Trek.

I find it strange that one of the best lines in the franchise, one of the most Star Trek lines, is to be found in one of the lesser TOS episodes:

Captain Kirk: "Alexander...where I come from size, shape or color doesn't matter..."

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Aren't these kind of complaints common for scifi franchises? A lot of people complained about the black stormtrooper because all stormtroopers were supposed to be Jenga Fett clones, even though it was established in universe that the original clones were later the minority among stormtroopers.