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Star Trek's Troubling 50th Anniversary

How do you feel about the current state of Trek and its future?

  • Optimistic

    Votes: 50 38.8%
  • Worried

    Votes: 42 32.6%
  • Cautiously Optimistic

    Votes: 37 28.7%

  • Total voters
    129
Star Trek has become a niche product since the hey days of the 1980s. Recently, a lot of younger people (key market for any sf franchise) had no awareness of Trek.

This is the kind of thing that kinda raises an eyebrow from me. The degree to which Trek was a "niche product" is vastly overstated; if it were really the case, there would have been no motivation for a reboot at all. Trek's audience contracted to a "niche" throughout the Nineties only because it became a tired product to which only a fraction of the hardcore fandom was dedicated by the end... but there was still a vast audience out there who knew who Kirk and Spock and company (or Picard and Data and company) and would come out to see a product done right. That the latter Trek shows never really had such cachet, or that the TNG movies did relatively little with the cachet that show had enjoyed (and even there the "general audience's" absence seems to be a going assumption even where the "general audience" plainly did come out, such as First Contact ) doesn't imply the brand as a whole was simply "niche." And the immense goodwill Abrams' reboot enjoyed despite its evident flaws rather speaks against that assumption.

A real "niche product" was something like Iron Man, which had nowhere near the level of pop-culture penetration Trek as a brand has enjoyed since forever. And even that, given sufficiently sophisticated treatment and a charismatic star, found its way with this exotic "general audience" that supposedly needs to be repeatedly educated about what genre content is. And that's to say nothing of products which had no prepared "niche" to build from, like Avatar or Inception or Interstellar, all of which did bigger box than NuTrek on their own merits as movies. I'm just not buying it at all. (Nor the often-related meme that the choice is between pleasing the fans and finding a general audience.)
 
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pegg_meme2.jpg
:lol: Perfect.
 
This is the kind of thing that kinda raises an eyebrow from me. The degree to which Trek was a "niche product" is vastly overstated;
I gave my 12 yo nephew some Trek comics, trying to ween him onto the franchise. He's a big fan of stuff like Star Wars, Harry Potter, various superheroes. I asked what he knew about Star Trek. He had heard of STID.

A real "niche product" was something like Iron Man, which had nowhere near the level of pop-culture penetration Trek as a brand has enjoyed since forever.
As a side note, I've always found it weird when people talk about how "obscure" Iron Man was. I was a DC kid, but I knew who Iron Man was, and thought he was one of the most memorable Marvel characters, maybe not at Spidey level but up there with the Hulk. I dunno, maybe he dropped off the radar in the couple of decades since I stopped reading superhero comics...
 
He's a big fan of stuff like Star Wars, Harry Potter, various superheroes. I asked what he knew about Star Trek. He had heard of STID.

He'd also probably heard of a dozen other franchises, anime included, that were influenced by Trek. Would he have needed special teaching to "get" Trek? Even without having heard of "Trek" specifically, I very much doubt it.
 
As a side note, I've always found it weird when people talk about how "obscure" Iron Man was. I was a DC kid, but I knew who Iron Man was, and thought he was one of the most memorable Marvel characters, maybe not at Spidey level but up there with the Hulk. I dunno, maybe he dropped off the radar in the couple of decades since I stopped reading superhero comics...

I think the point is that he was largely unknown to people who weren't already comic-book readers. You may have been more into DC, but you were still a comics fan. When people say that Iron Man was "obscure," they mean that the average American moviegoer had not heard about him the same they'd heard about Superman or Wonder Woman or Spider-Man or the Hulk.

It wasn't about his prominence in the actual comics. It was about his name-recognition status with the general populace, including the vast majority of the public who don't know or care much about comic books.

So, no, Iron Man was not a household name before he became a movie star. Comics fans knew who he was, but not the rest of the world.
 
As a side note, I've always found it weird when people talk about how "obscure" Iron Man was. I was a DC kid, but I knew who Iron Man was, and thought he was one of the most memorable Marvel characters, maybe not at Spidey level but up there with the Hulk. I dunno, maybe he dropped off the radar in the couple of decades since I stopped reading superhero comics...

I feel the same way. I had an Iron Man doll ( we called them action figures but whatever ) as a kid, I read the Iron Man comic, and I'm fairly sure that the few times I picked up an Avengers comic I was really just there for Iron Man.
 
As a side note, I've always found it weird when people talk about how "obscure" Iron Man was. I was a DC kid, but I knew who Iron Man was, and thought he was one of the most memorable Marvel characters, maybe not at Spidey level but up there with the Hulk. I dunno, maybe he dropped off the radar in the couple of decades since I stopped reading superhero comics...

I feel the same way. I had an Iron Man doll ( we called them action figures but whatever ) as a kid, I read the Iron Man comic, and I'm fairly sure that the few times I picked up an Avengers comic I was really just there for Iron Man.

Heck, I was writing IRON MAN novels before Iron Man was cool, but I don't think comic-book characters really register with the general public until there's been a hit TV show and lots of merchandising.

People who have never read WONDER WOMAN comics (which is most of the world) have heard of her because they kinda remember the old TV show with Lynda Carter and because she's been on lunchboxes and Pez Dispensers and beach towels for decades now.

And, yes, there had been some IRON MAN merchandise (like, er, a few paperback novels) and a couple of minor cartoon series before the movie came around, but he hadn't really achieved "headliner" status with the general public until he turned into Robert Downey Jr.

Lord knows I never saw any royalties from those old books! :)
 
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If it's not Spider-Man, Superman or Batman most people never heard of it until movies and TV.
 
If it's not Spider-Man, Superman or Batman most people never heard of it until movies and TV.

For the stand alone heroes I would agree. I sometimes kind of get headaches when I see some of the fans of the mcu universe bragging about how popular iron man, captain America and thor are.

yes they are popular even now but in no way have they every reached the popularity status of superman, batman, and Spiderman.

marvel did a good job making their b list hero's a-listers even guardians of the galaxy that were c-listers now they are on the a list and the film could be inspiration for trek 3 and that scares me.
 
TWOK still staggers my mind when I read Shatner's, Nimoy's and Meyer's accounts of it. Meyer risked getting fired by doing uncredited rewrites and pulling together 8 different drafts. Until I here about the next film facing that I'm not at all worried.

In actuality, if he hadn't done the uncredited rewrite they could not have had ILM do the budget breakdown and the project would have stalled. How do you figure he was risking being "fired"? The risk he took was that he did the rewrite without a contract and thus didn't get credit.
 
TWOK still staggers my mind when I read Shatner's, Nimoy's and Meyer's accounts of it. Meyer risked getting fired by doing uncredited rewrites and pulling together 8 different drafts. Until I here about the next film facing that I'm not at all worried.

In actuality, if he hadn't done the uncredited rewrite they could not have had ILM do the budget breakdown and the project would have stalled. How do you figure he was risking being "fired"? The risk he took was that he did the rewrite without a contract and thus didn't get credit.

If I recall correctly (and I may not be, so I will double check) Meyer was violating guild rules (either SGA or DGA) by doing the rewrite, and thus put himself at risk. How much risk, I am forgetting, but it was not a small matter.

But, again, I could be wrong and until I pick up Meyer's book again, I'll say this is what I remember.
 
He was likely breaking guild rules, but Paramount wouldn't have fired him for it. The WGA might've slammed his fingers in a car door and fined him, however.
 
As I said, I might be misremembering his words. He might have be relating how risky he felt it was at the time.

But, need to do some reading.
 
I think it's actually common practice for directors to do their own, usually uncredited, pass of the script. As long as they're not claiming a credit or a pay cheque, the union shouldn't have a problem with it.
 
I think it's actually common practice for directors to do their own, usually uncredited, pass of the script. As long as they're not claiming a credit or a pay cheque, the union shouldn't have a problem with it.

Well, it would be a pass that a union member isn't getting paid for.
 
I think it's actually common practice for directors to do their own, usually uncredited, pass of the script. As long as they're not claiming a credit or a pay cheque, the union shouldn't have a problem with it.

I don't know, Abrams was apparently forbidden from making changes to Trek XI's script while the writer's strike of 2007 was going on.
 
Well, Abrams is a member of WGA and was on strike - as a writer. As a member of DGA, he was working. ;)
 
If it's not Spider-Man, Superman or Batman most people never heard of it until movies and TV.

And even those three are mostly known because of their movies and tv shows. That may be different in the US, but here in Germany Batman is known to the public for the tv show with Adam West (first geneneration, young people today don't even know it exists), the Tim Burton/Joel Schumacher movies (second generation, mostly remembered because of Jack Nicholson and George Clooney) and the Nolan movies (third generation).

Superman is mostly known for the movie series back in the seventies.

And Spiderman ... I remember there being cartoons on tv back in the nineties, other than that he became popular with the frist trilogy.

I just don't think comics are that popular over here as they are in the US, so superheroes depend a little more on tv and movie appearances.
 
We'll probably end up with a film where everyone is chasing an Iconian artifact of incredible power. First it'll get picked up by Harry Mudd, who gets captured by the Klingons then the Romulans will ambush the Klingons then Kirk will sneak aboard the lead Romulan ship (with Kirk in full Romulan makeup) to steal the artifact while Spock woo's the female Romulan commander. At the end, they'll dump the artifact into the sun.

Only they get too close to the sun and end up being slingshot forward in time (into the prime timeline as the Iconian artifact opened an interdimensional doorway) and team up with TNG who have to help them get back to the past/alternate timeline as the crew have all begun a rapid aging process due to the unstableness of the interdimentional time travel combined with the effects of the artefact. The climax would see the Enterprise E battling several Romulan warbirds and Klingon BOP as the damaged JJprise (with aged crew) limps toward an artificially created rift/anomaly to the alternate past..

nick frost as Mudd, rosamund pike as Romulan Cmdr, with TNG & TOS casts (with CG Kelly, Doohan)
 
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