In Lexx it only took self replicating robot arms a few weeks to consumes the universe.
That's the nature of a virus. Geometric increase.
That's the nature of a virus. Geometric increase.
Re-doing Voyager
- Thread starter Enabran
- Start date
They have self-replicating technology stealing robotic vermin in Stargate but by the end of the series they manage to get them all, which I find atrociously plot convenient.
I know, but WHY really? What do the Borg do but conquer and consume?
It's not like the Borg have actual lives to live. Them abandoning a world/system after draining it of all resources to fuel their quest for more worlds would only make sense.
I couldn't agree more, the borg sound like a giant waste. I mean, take humanity, in peacetime that is, once we've ensured our basic needs, what do we do with the rest of our resources. We use them for distraction, leisure time, art, entertainment.
The borg's basic needs are very easily met with very little effort, so what do they use the rest for? NOTHING!
For that I would quote holographic Freud in Data's nightmare, "Kill zem! Kill zem all!!!"
The hive mind has very little to do with the daily routine of the drones boldly going forth.
They may speak as one at human speeds, but there's probably an interesting debate about how they get to the point at computer speeds.
The Borg say that being Borg is superb. Are they lying, or is it really superb?
Trillions of beings locked into a hive mind and you can explore the entire lives of every single persons memories or interact with them as a person. The hive mind is exploration of the universe as exploration of self.
They may speak as one at human speeds, but there's probably an interesting debate about how they get to the point at computer speeds.
The Borg say that being Borg is superb. Are they lying, or is it really superb?
Trillions of beings locked into a hive mind and you can explore the entire lives of every single persons memories or interact with them as a person. The hive mind is exploration of the universe as exploration of self.
Given their lack of emotion and of appreciation of art. Their droning must be the kind of boring stuff that would kill you more efficiently than any poison or deadly weapon.
"Kill zem! Kill zem all!!!"
That's really the question, does the individual self still somehow exist within the hive mind? The Borg Queen seems to imply it in Voyager with her "the Borg love you! You are important to us!" shtick she tries on Seven and Tuvok. However, why should we trust what she says? Sure she might tell the little kid in Unimatrix Zero that listening to all the voices in the collective is "fun" but you can only have fun if you still somehow exist, and do you once absorbed into the Borg?
The evidence, as shown by Picard, Hugh and Seven, seems more to be that the individual ceases to exist with assimilation, subsumed into a massive mental fusion. A fused mind with the rigidness of a computer program. They are less about exploring the universe as swallowing it up.
As Kobayshi said we humans advance our technology and explore to make our lives better and out of passion.
The Borg just absorb all knowledge and technology so that they can absorb even more knowledge and technology. They don't seem to have any higher purpose than to make everyone Borg and I would say it is part of why they were so sinister and threatening.
The evidence, as shown by Picard, Hugh and Seven, seems more to be that the individual ceases to exist with assimilation, subsumed into a massive mental fusion. A fused mind with the rigidness of a computer program. They are less about exploring the universe as swallowing it up.
As Kobayshi said we humans advance our technology and explore to make our lives better and out of passion.
The Borg just absorb all knowledge and technology so that they can absorb even more knowledge and technology. They don't seem to have any higher purpose than to make everyone Borg and I would say it is part of why they were so sinister and threatening.
Just like cancerous cells, their ultimate goal is to replace all the other cells with their own kind. They don't care if they kill the main organism in the process.
"Kill zem! Kill zem all!"
The Replicators were defeated via super knowledge gain from ascended beings. Kind of cheating, but no worse that the Prophets intervening on the part of Sisko and the Defiant.
As for the Borg, the idea is to assimilate all information and knowledge to (as later revealed) more towards perfection. Even Hugh hints at this when Lore attempts to take over the Borg and promises to create them as totally artificial life-forms. Clearly there are aspects to organic tissue that the Borg find imperfect are are seeking to purge, in their quest for perfection.
The individual does not matter, save for the experiences that they provide. In a way, the Borg are the cybernetic equivalent of the Founders, seeking out new experiences, and bringing them under their control so that the "right" point of view can be applied to their memories. Basically, their experiences now serve a greater purpose because they benefit the hive mind. The individual does not matter, because their meaning is gained by servicing the whole. If the individual is lost, their experiences are still in the hive.
tl:dr: Individuals don't matter to the Borg, but knowledge does. The individual doesn't matter because the memories remain with the Hive.
I understand that but the thing still stands that the Borg don't seem to do anything with either the knowledge nor the experience or memories. It all just gets absorbed, cataloged and, if it doesn't benefit their quest to absorb more knowledge, left to gather the dust in the far recesses of the hive mind. The Borg don't seem like the type who would cherish the memory of a summer afternoon or ponder the philosophies of the many races they swallow. And if those experience aren't cherished anymore and the knowledge isn't valued, then it's just like if the Borg had destroyed them.
As for their quest for "perfection" I have always wondered what they mean by that, the most efficient machine perhaps?
I have often wondered if the Borg where some experiment gone amok, like Kobayshi said, cancerous cells and whatever lofty goals they or their creators originally had are long gone. They might just be led by a program without understanding it.
And I still don't think that they do anything at all but conquer and swallow. I particularly don't understand what the Borg Queen does all day with trillions of minds subsumed into her own but nobody who really is her equal. For all we know she does actually riffle through the memories of all the people that are part of the collective, just to pass the time.
As for their quest for "perfection" I have always wondered what they mean by that, the most efficient machine perhaps?
I have often wondered if the Borg where some experiment gone amok, like Kobayshi said, cancerous cells and whatever lofty goals they or their creators originally had are long gone. They might just be led by a program without understanding it.
And I still don't think that they do anything at all but conquer and swallow. I particularly don't understand what the Borg Queen does all day with trillions of minds subsumed into her own but nobody who really is her equal. For all we know she does actually riffle through the memories of all the people that are part of the collective, just to pass the time.
A French author, Rabelais, once said that science is meaningless without conscience. I think that fits the borg like a glove.
Pretty much. The Borg consume and that is what they do. Their reasons may be nebulous, but they still consume.
As for passing the time, I would imagine that they do sift memories for specific nuggets of information that are relevant to the hive. With trillions of minds, such knowledge would a limitless pursuit.
I agree that whatever the Borg were originally designed to do, that purpose is lost to the sands times. And now, as has been said before, they are cancerous, replicating and consuming.
Mine:
1) Voyager doesn't know where it is but they find evidence of Alpha/Beta Quadrant visitation to the region and works from that.
2) There are other ships from familiar and unfamiliar races stranded in the region. Voyager forms a alliance with a few of them.
3) The caretaker existed at a hundred different arrays in the region of space, some are occupied, Voyager finds different technology on each one.
4) The Equinox arrived there through a different means, the Borg partially assimilated the ship at Wolf 359 and hot wired the ship with a transwarp coil, the crew destroyed them and the ship crashed on a moon, it's become a pirates den as the captain believes they are the last humans in the universe and must use extreme methods for survival. Though Voyager refutes the claim, the crew feel they are too far gone and a handful conspire to take humans to the top in the region.
5) A Borg Scout arrives in the region and attacks Voyager seizing several crewmembers including the ships exobiologists the Hansens, their daughter Annika is rescued three months later from a hyper cube during a mission to seal it, she existed for fifteen years as a drone overseeing bio extraction.
6) When the Borg do invade, Voyager works with many races as the Borg ravage planets and civilizations, it hides most of the time, gives shelter or coordinates refugees though sometimes performs cavalry raids for supplies or information.
7) After the Borg are defeated new powers emerge, one with many Kazon and Trabe members, which restricts warp travel to warp three and intends to destroy technology believing it brought the Borg to the region, they send a special group to hunt Voyager.
1) Voyager doesn't know where it is but they find evidence of Alpha/Beta Quadrant visitation to the region and works from that.
2) There are other ships from familiar and unfamiliar races stranded in the region. Voyager forms a alliance with a few of them.
3) The caretaker existed at a hundred different arrays in the region of space, some are occupied, Voyager finds different technology on each one.
4) The Equinox arrived there through a different means, the Borg partially assimilated the ship at Wolf 359 and hot wired the ship with a transwarp coil, the crew destroyed them and the ship crashed on a moon, it's become a pirates den as the captain believes they are the last humans in the universe and must use extreme methods for survival. Though Voyager refutes the claim, the crew feel they are too far gone and a handful conspire to take humans to the top in the region.
5) A Borg Scout arrives in the region and attacks Voyager seizing several crewmembers including the ships exobiologists the Hansens, their daughter Annika is rescued three months later from a hyper cube during a mission to seal it, she existed for fifteen years as a drone overseeing bio extraction.
6) When the Borg do invade, Voyager works with many races as the Borg ravage planets and civilizations, it hides most of the time, gives shelter or coordinates refugees though sometimes performs cavalry raids for supplies or information.
7) After the Borg are defeated new powers emerge, one with many Kazon and Trabe members, which restricts warp travel to warp three and intends to destroy technology believing it brought the Borg to the region, they send a special group to hunt Voyager.
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I believe it would have been a better show if they hadn't used technobabble as a way to resolve a problem so many times. A little less anomalies and a little more human beings put in situations where they have difficult decisions to make. A little less shallowness, like when Tuvix was "disassembled" we never learned what it was like to either Tuvok or Neelix to be fused together. Do they have any memories of it? In the episode they seem un-surprised as if they were there the whole time. The point is that they never bothered to tell us as if the episode was something to be forgotten even as it was unfolding before out eyes. It felt botched. The work of someone who despises his audience. I found it frustrating.
Some good concepts in here. Great to see everyone coming up with some new ideas!
I might've already said this, but here's mine:
Janeway: scientist from a military family, reflecting her mother's interests more than her father's. Used to be a tomboy, but is quite feminine (no smoker voice), like Diane Kruger or Charlize Theron or Xenia Seeberg.
Chakotay: More like Lou Diamond Phillips' character in Longmire, incredibly loyal, from a real tribe on Earth, no tattoo, strong sense of justice. Over time, he develops a true friendship with Janeway.
Doctor: none of the holographic rights nonsense. Recognizes he is a program and asks to be treated as a crewman by the crew, but doesn't go down the routes he did in Voyager.
Tuvok: Same. I enjoyed his characterization and portrayal by Tim Russ
B'Elanna; make her half Orion or adopted Orion by a human, struggling to control herself amongst humans. The whole Enterprise 'enhanced pheremones' thing would be explained as a temporary genetic experiment that dead-ended. Incredibly intelligent, and offended at the Orion stereotypes, which she fights by trying to be incredibly technical (like Bones), but underneath she is very passionate, caring, and needs friends, just doesn't know how to make them very easily.
Stadi: full Betazoid, but red-hair/green eyes. A rarity, and her telepathy more often than not needs touch to work, otherwise it's more empathy. A dedicated officer, and kind of Paris' 'parole officer,' she looks down on him, but eventually he earns her respect.
Paris: A bit longer as a bit of a rogue, chafing under authority when he doesn't believe it's the right thing to do, as he sees Starfleet's rules and regulations as being 'in the way.' He did graduate but was only a Lt JG when he eventually got sent to a Penal colony in New Zealand.
Kim: Lt JG, fresh from the Academy, but actually gets promotions during the course of the series. Very by-the-book, and doesn't like Tom Paris much during the first two seasons.
Seven of Nine: same, but gets some actual human social graces by the end of her second season on board, and instead of one-color catsuits, she would wear uniform-styled catsuits (department-color shoulder bars, black body, or reverse).
Neelix: play up his operating on the gray side of the law, especially when it leaves the people behind all the legalese. He believes in doing the right thing, not necessarily the legal thing. He has a lot of world experiences in his not-so-legal freighter, which has been jury-rigged from parts from dozens of species. Becomes the 'guide' for the show through the Delta Quadrant, and when he runs out of knowledge, uses similarities to species and missions to help (like Kup in Transformers' war stories)
Kes: A genetically engineered 'mate', still has Jennifer Lien's voice. Is incredibly intelligent and intuitive, and caring, serving as a foil to Neelix (not the right word, I know), keeping him in line and reminding him of his duties and loved ones if he tries something dangerous or too risky. Doesn't have a relationship other than as a sister-type to Neelix. She becomes the cook in the mess hall and the morale officer.
Third alien: Male or female, serves as second officer to Neelix, engineer-gunner type to jury-rig things for him and keep the freighter running with just about any scavenged part he/she could find. Invaluable in helping Voyager find ways to repair its equipment being so far away from Starfleet.
Seska: a true Bajoran, not a Cardassian. Joined the Maquis to stop the Cardassians, and doesn't like Janeway's approach to doing things. She's very direct and doesn't often play nice.
Random Maquis and Starfleet: recurring characters that we get to know who may or may not survive the trip home, like BSG and DS9 had.
Ship: Larger Intrepid, say 250 people at 1.5x the size, or maybe a Constitution class ship.
that's a very very short version of my idea, but hopefully it sounds good.
They should have found better villains than the Kazons and the Vidians. Shoddy Villains make for a bad show.
The Vidiians were fine. But they'd need time and cannon fodder to properly develop their enemies as threatening, and with the "Always on the move" thing they couldn't do that.
Imagine if the Dominion only showed up like 2-3 times in DS9 and they never killed anyone. How threatening would they be then?
Imagine if the Dominion only showed up like 2-3 times in DS9 and they never killed anyone. How threatening would they be then?
Maybe they should have met the borg earlier and instead of one borg space, having borg "zones" here and there. That way the borg could have been developed to taste.
Janeway - Would have been single from the word go. I'm not sure what the thinking was behind giving her a partner but i suspect it may have been cos she was a woman (Kirk & Picard could be single without any problems but apparently if Janeway was single, she's end up falling in love with an alien every week cos you know, that's what woman do)
Chakotay - He just needed to be much more aggressive and less easily dismissed. He's supposed to be a bad ass rebel but he never really convinced. He'd give Janeway some good advice but when she utterly ignored it, he wouldn't pursue it and make a stand. I think in Equinox he says something like....i'm warning you, i won't let you cross that line again....but it was so spineless.....and too late....you already did let her cross that line chuckles
Paris - More Locarno and less goofy please
Other than that, i would have liked to have seen more of the background characters and the show stick closer to the original premise. Maybe more conflict within the crew, more dissent, more battle damage, more gritty stuff
Chakotay - He just needed to be much more aggressive and less easily dismissed. He's supposed to be a bad ass rebel but he never really convinced. He'd give Janeway some good advice but when she utterly ignored it, he wouldn't pursue it and make a stand. I think in Equinox he says something like....i'm warning you, i won't let you cross that line again....but it was so spineless.....and too late....you already did let her cross that line chuckles
Paris - More Locarno and less goofy please
Other than that, i would have liked to have seen more of the background characters and the show stick closer to the original premise. Maybe more conflict within the crew, more dissent, more battle damage, more gritty stuff
