Boring

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Other than in TWOK, I'm not completely sure when Spock was ever really "Spock" in a Trek movie. Seems there was always something up with him, not just in TMP.

I thought he seemed like himself in TUC, as I found the other characters' behavior more out of sorts. His behavior in both TSFS and TVH may be attributed to his having died and been resurrected, and his actions in TFF make sense in light of his relationship to Sybok.

--Sran

 

[EnriqueH]

I always thought Kirk felt like Kirk throughout the movie, only this Kirk is going through a life change.

As soon as Shatner utters his dialogue, "Commander Sonak..." it feels like Kirk.

Same thing with Bones. His introduction in the transporter is one of my favorite moments of the film.

As a matter of fact, everyone seems like themselves but a little more experienced. Only Spock seems different, but it's obvious he's going through something major.

One thing I do think ALL fans should love (aside from the score) is the epic feel of the Enterprise. I don't think we've ever seen the Enterprise look so awesome, and full of people. The Enterprise looks like Grand Central Station. People walking briskly through corridors like they're on a serious, time sensitive task. I love that!

Though I recognize its flaws, I love TMP but it's not for everybody.

The one time he really seemed like Kirk to me was when he and Chekov shared a smile when the Enterprise went to warp. One of my favorite moments. McCoy was certainly himself. As for the others, frankly, they didn't have enough to do for me to get a feel for them.

Other than in TWOK, I'm not completely sure when Spock was ever really "Spock" in a Trek movie. Seems there was always something up with him, not just in TMP.

And yes, the Enterprise was beautiful, inside and out.

Man, I always thought he felt like Kirk to me, albeit a Kirk who's going through some growing pains.

I agree with you on Spock.

I remember feeling a real sense of loss after TWOK, not because he died, but because when he came back, Spock was never quite like that TWOK Spock ever again.

It sucks because I felt like in TWOK, Spock was finally truly himself. It's as if he finally achieved peace and balance between his Vulcan and human side.

 

[Indysolo]

Why is Star Trek: The Motion Picture so awesome?

Fixed.

Neil

 

[Franklin]

I always thought Kirk felt like Kirk throughout the movie, only this Kirk is going through a life change.

As soon as Shatner utters his dialogue, "Commander Sonak..." it feels like Kirk.

Same thing with Bones. His introduction in the transporter is one of my favorite moments of the film.

As a matter of fact, everyone seems like themselves but a little more experienced. Only Spock seems different, but it's obvious he's going through something major.

One thing I do think ALL fans should love (aside from the score) is the epic feel of the Enterprise. I don't think we've ever seen the Enterprise look so awesome, and full of people. The Enterprise looks like Grand Central Station. People walking briskly through corridors like they're on a serious, time sensitive task. I love that!

Though I recognize its flaws, I love TMP but it's not for everybody.

The one time he really seemed like Kirk to me was when he and Chekov shared a smile when the Enterprise went to warp. One of my favorite moments. McCoy was certainly himself. As for the others, frankly, they didn't have enough to do for me to get a feel for them.

Other than in TWOK, I'm not completely sure when Spock was ever really "Spock" in a Trek movie. Seems there was always something up with him, not just in TMP.

And yes, the Enterprise was beautiful, inside and out.

Man, I always thought he felt like Kirk to me, albeit a Kirk who's going through some growing pains.

I agree with you on Spock.

I remember feeling a real sense of loss after TWOK, not because he died, but because when he came back, Spock was never quite like that TWOK Spock ever again.

It sucks because I felt like in TWOK, Spock was finally truly himself. It's as if he finally achieved peace and balance between his Vulcan and human side.

I guess I'm not saying I didn't recognize Kirk, just that it wasn't the Kirk I was expecting to see in a "Star Trek" movie at age 19 in the theater after watching TOS reruns over and over again for over ten years. Over time, I've obviously understood more what was going on with him (aging and coping with occasionally dodgy life decisions does that). Still, I'm not quite sure I ever sensed he was totally comfortable with himself until near the very end of TMP. It was certainly an interesting angle to take on the main action hero for a feature film.

Come to think of it, it's somewhat the same angle they took in TWOK, as Kirk spent a fair amount of time in that movie regaining his groove.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^Why did that surprise you? The most interesting protagonists aren't Mary Sue/Gary Stu types but flawed characters who must deal with conflicts--both internal and external--as a means of advancing and ultimately resolving a story's plot.

And as to why Kirk spent much of TWOK finding himself after doing the same during TMP, more than twelve years had passed between the two films. It's not entirely clear what Kirk did during the intervening years, but he wasn't in command of the Enterprise for at least a portion of that time. It's not surprising that there would be rust for him to shake off, particularly since he was older at the outset of TWOK.

--Sran

 

[Franklin]

^Why did that surprise you? The most interesting protagonists aren't Mary Sue/Gary Stu types but flawed characters who must deal with conflicts--both internal and external--as a means of advancing and ultimately resolving a story's plot.

And as to why Kirk spent much of TWOK finding himself after doing the same during TMP, more than twelve years had passed between the two films. It's not entirely clear what Kirk did during the intervening years, but he wasn't in command of the Enterprise for at least a portion of that time. It's not surprising that there would be rust for him to shake off, particularly since he was older at the outset of TWOK.

--Sran

Young and dumb in 1979. I appreciate it, now. I am wondering, however, when we'll see a movie when we get Kirk at his TOS best. Not complaining about what we've had, but just wishing.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^Probably never. What made Kirk interesting--in my opinion--was how he managed to remain an effective officer in spite of how much both he and his colleagues changed over time; that's not to say he was effective in every setting, as he was clearly more well-suited for line officer duty than flag officer duty, but he remained as dedicated to his ship, his crew and his principles from the first moments of "Where No Man Has Gone Before..." until his final log entry at the conclusion of TUC.

--Sran

 

[JeffinOakland]

I think Wrath of Khan & Search for Spock have an urgency and emotional resonance sorely lacking in TMP.

 

[Melakon]

I am wondering, however, when we'll see a movie when we get Kirk at his TOS best.

That won't happen until 1960s Shatner goes through a time machine.

 

[Amaris]

I always thought Kirk felt like Kirk throughout the movie, only this Kirk is going through a life change.

As soon as Shatner utters his dialogue, "Commander Sonak..." it feels like Kirk.

Same thing with Bones. His introduction in the transporter is one of my favorite moments of the film.

As a matter of fact, everyone seems like themselves but a little more experienced. Only Spock seems different, but it's obvious he's going through something major.

One thing I do think ALL fans should love (aside from the score) is the epic feel of the Enterprise. I don't think we've ever seen the Enterprise look so awesome, and full of people. The Enterprise looks like Grand Central Station. People walking briskly through corridors like they're on a serious, time sensitive task. I love that!

Though I recognize its flaws, I love TMP but it's not for everybody.

This. A thousand times this.

 

[Lance]

The irony about TMP and TWOK is that Meyer deliberately re-used several motifs from the first movie -- including Kirk's unhappiness with being a desk jockey and his eagerness to sit in the chair again -- but he did so with a lot of warmth in TWOK (a beloved admiral reaching a milestone birthday and being given the keys to the ship as a present, only to find himself having to step back into an unexpected active combat role that he is no longer fully equipped for); whereas TMP was quite cold about it (almost portraying Kirk as an antagonist; an admiral unpleased by being stuck behind a desk, coming onto Decker's ship and using the V'Ger crisis as a blatant excuse to take the command chair out from underneath him).

Really, both movies come at the exact same material from radically different directions.

 

[fireproof78]

The irony about TMP and TWOK is that Meyer deliberately re-used several motifs from the first movie -- including Kirk's unhappiness with being a desk jockey and his eagerness to sit in the chair again -- but he did so with a lot of warmth in TWOK (a beloved admiral reaching a milestone birthday and being given the keys to the ship as a present, only to find himself having to step back into an unexpected active combat role that he is no longer fully equipped for); whereas TMP was quite cold about it (almost portraying Kirk as an antagonist; an admiral unpleased by being stuck behind a desk, coming onto Decker's ship and using the V'Ger crisis as a blatant excuse to take the command chair out from underneath him).

Really, both movies come at the exact same material from radically different directions.

Kirk's demeanor seems very antagonistic, to me. When I first saw it, that was very frustrating, because I was looking for the Kirk from TOS. This Kirk seemed to be bordering on angry most of the time. It didn't sit well to me.

Being a bit older, I can appreciate it a little more, but still does not sit right. The film feels very large, taking its time with the VFX shots, but the character moments don't always click for me. Kirk is a bit abrupt, and does, as Lance says, take over Decker's ship.

I won't call it boring, but I understand why it can be called that. I will say that the story does not interest me and so is not really engaging in a way that most other Trek movies are.

 

[Lance]

I think both of them are equally valid interpretations, but I can understand why people tend to see the TWOK version more favorably than the TMP one.

Some drafts of TMP (from when it was 'In Thy Image', the Phase II pilot episode) show in more detail Kirk's struggle with, even his rejection of, the idea of being Enterprise's commanding officer again -- because he loved that ship so much, but recognises that he needs to let her go. He only takes the assignment himself when Admiral Nogura basically forces him to. TMP glosses over all of this: Kirk's assuming command of Enterprise is done with a great deal more decisiveness on his part, much colder. It's almost a 'fait accompli'.

 

[fireproof78]

I think both of them are equally valid interpretations, but I can understand why people tend to see the TWOK version more favorably than the TMP one.

Some drafts of TMP (from when it was 'In Thy Image', the Phase II pilot episode) show in more detail Kirk's struggle with, even his rejection of, the idea of being Enterprise's commanding officer again -- because he loved that ship so much, but recognises that he needs to let her go. He only takes the assignment himself when Admiral Nogura basically forces him to. TMP glosses over all of this: Kirk's assuming command of Enterprise is done with a great deal more decisiveness on his part, much colder. It's almost a 'fait accompli'.

Not only colder, but rather abruptly. We barely see Kirk (and don't really meet Sonak) and he says that he intends to take command. Obviously, its Kirk, so as the audience we naturally want to support him. But, it feels like he slaps Decker with a demotion, rather than just assuming command due to the crisis, and it falling in to his lap.

The novel does a better job of humanizing Kirk's decision, and gives more insight in to his debate, as well as the the tragedy of the transporter accident. I actually enjoyed TMP more after I had read the novel.

 

[Marsden]

I know this is a very silly post 35 years after the fact, but I wisch they could have just started the movie with Kirk, a captain, in command, Spock as science officer and Decker as XO, with Bones still the CMO and no one retired. Ilia can be introduced as navigator, Xon can even be an assistant that talks with Spock in one scene, no need to murder the poor bastard. Scotty can say something towards the begining about getting back underway after the refit and how happy he is everything is working.

That ugly transporter malfunction scene is totally removed, that was not a good scene to include in a G rated movie.

Keep the Klingons, the space station and have Enterprise divert to intercept V'ger and continue as it was.

Back OT, I didn't find it boring, but I also didn't find it exciting in a lot of places. Some people have degrees in between, but for those that are bored if not excited, then I can understand why they may think it's boring.

 

[Franklin]

I think both of them are equally valid interpretations, but I can understand why people tend to see the TWOK version more favorably than the TMP one.

Some drafts of TMP (from when it was 'In Thy Image', the Phase II pilot episode) show in more detail Kirk's struggle with, even his rejection of, the idea of being Enterprise's commanding officer again -- because he loved that ship so much, but recognises that he needs to let her go. He only takes the assignment himself when Admiral Nogura basically forces him to. TMP glosses over all of this: Kirk's assuming command of Enterprise is done with a great deal more decisiveness on his part, much colder. It's almost a 'fait accompli'.

Not only colder, but rather abruptly. We barely see Kirk (and don't really meet Sonak) and he says that he intends to take command. Obviously, its Kirk, so as the audience we naturally want to support him. But, it feels like he slaps Decker with a demotion, rather than just assuming command due to the crisis, and it falling in to his lap.

The novel does a better job of humanizing Kirk's decision, and gives more insight in to his debate, as well as the the tragedy of the transporter accident. I actually enjoyed TMP more after I had read the novel.

We had Spock drawn back to Starfleet when he realized the answers to what he needed in life were not going to be found on Vulcan. The encounter with V-Ger was a changing point in his life.

If the story had put more focus on Kirk's inner journey to realizing he couldn't walk away from his first, best destiny even if he wished he could, it would've been a far more powerful movie and helped to explain why Kirk did seem "off" during a lot of the story. (Feeling a bit sorry for himself. "No beach to walk on," and so forth.) Fewer long flybys of V-Ger, and a few more words of dialog in this area would've worked wonders.

Of course, poor McCoy didn't have a choice. He was just "drafted" back onto the Enterprise.

 

[Firebird]

The irony about TMP and TWOK is that Meyer deliberately re-used several motifs from the first movie -- including Kirk's unhappiness with being a desk jockey and his eagerness to sit in the chair again -- but he did so with a lot of warmth in TWOK (a beloved admiral reaching a milestone birthday and being given the keys to the ship as a present, only to find himself having to step back into an unexpected active combat role that he is no longer fully equipped for); whereas TMP was quite cold about it (almost portraying Kirk as an antagonist; an admiral unpleased by being stuck behind a desk, coming onto Decker's ship and using the V'Ger crisis as a blatant excuse to take the command chair out from underneath him).

Really, both movies come at the exact same material from radically different directions.

The key difference between the approaches is, as McCoy says in TMP, Kirk's desire to get back onboard the Enterprise "an obsession, one that can blind you to more immediate & critical responsibilities." That line, for me, is essential to understand the way Kirk behaves for the first half of the film. He's not the Kirk we knew in TOS, he's the embittered, restless desk jockey that was ceremonially benched by Starfleet after a landmark 5-year mission. He's so desperate to get back out there, on HIS ship, that he doesn't give a damn at how he comes across. He just wants what he wants.

By the time TWOK comes along, about 10 years or so later in the timeline, we see a much more well-adjusted Admiral Kirk. He'd gotten his taste of command back in TMP, maybe even parlayed another 5 year mission out of his handling of the V'ger crisis. He's a man more at peace and comfortable with himself and his role in Starfleet. We even see his reticence to take command again, he knows that Spock is in command of the ship. He's not in desperation mode this time.

Looking at both approaches like this, I would perhaps say that the Kirk of TWOK learned and grew from his experiences in TMP. So, TMP and TWOK might not be taking different approaches to the same problem, it's just that TWOK continues Kirk's arc from the first film.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^Although I agree that Kirk was certainly more aware of how his actions affected others in TWOK as opposed to TMP, I don't know that I'd describe his demeanor as that of a man at peace with himself. He clearly wasn't happy being chained to a desk--something McCoy points out while visiting Kirk at his apartment--but thought himself too old and too out of touch with the day-to-day responsibilities of command to get back onto the bridge of a starship.

--Sran

 

[Firebird]

^Although I agree that Kirk was certainly more aware of how his actions affected others in TWOK as opposed to TMP, I don't know that I'd describe his demeanor as that of a man at peace with himself. He clearly wasn't happy being chained to a desk--something McCoy points out while visiting Kirk at his apartment--but thought himself too old and too out of touch with the day-to-day responsibilities of command to get back onto the bridge of a starship.

--Sran

I totally spaced on that scene with Bones in Kirk's apartment! I do agree that he's clearly uncomfortable in TWOK with still being saddled to a desk. However, I think he's more... mature and realistic about it that time, if that makes sense? Rather than being brash and selfish, Kirk is able to accept the reality of where he's at. He may not enjoy it, but he's learned to accept it.

 

[Ithekro]

Both McCoy and Spock recommend Kirk get a starship command again in TWOK. McCoy to get him out of his getting old funk, and Spock because he sees Kirk as being best suited as a starship captain given the qualities and traits of Admiral Kirk.

We kow for a time Kirk was in Starfleet Operations prior to TMP, and he was at the Academy for TWOK. The question would be, what is Admiral Kirk's duties for Starfleet? What does he do? Is he commandant of the Academy in San Francisco? Was that a temporary thing becaues of the upcoming inspection tour of Enterprise for his birthday? Does he still work with Operations? Does that mean direction ship movements, or more on the line of direction new constructions?

Just what was Kirk's job in TMP before retaking Enterprise?