Number of Star Fleet officers on DS9

[Timo]

Now about the Defiant: Her being a warship doesn't matter at all. It would still have a cargo area, and a big shuttlebay. So even though it might be close and crowded for a crew of more than 100 on a longer mission, she would still be able to carry a giant amount of people for a short flight.

Quite so. Although we basically see her canonical shuttlebay in "The Sound of Her Voice" - it's a vertical cylindrar shaft with a floor consisting of sliding doors. Housing evacuees there would be akin to placing them in a grain silo. Cargo holds of appreciable size are not in evidence in the storylines. But the interior is big enough to feature turbolift rather than mere corridor-ladder access, and there are plenty of corridors that could be used for refugee stowage without blocking critical access.

Canonically, the size of the Defiant crew is not known. Backstage design specs say 40 people, but we have to remember that the ship was originally intended to be only about sixty meters long or so. That soon grew to 120, then to the modern backstage size of 170 meters, without anybody bothering to alter the crew size figures. At 170 meters, the ship would be about as big as the Reliant or Kirk's old ship, some dangling bits notwithstanding. And those could accommodate hundreds upon hundreds on long term missions, even though Kirk's ship could at one point sail around with just 200 crew on an operational mission, and could be flown by two cadets and a Monkee when need be.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[tafkats]

Calling it racism is streching it. As I said the worst Solok is guilty of here is opinion.

Sure, it's an opinion ... an opinion that one race is inherently superior to another. Also known as racism.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Calling it racism is streching it. As I said the worst Solok is guilty of here is opinion.

Sure, it's an opinion ... an opinion that one race is inherently superior to another. Also known as racism.

Only if it's false. If true, then it's just fact. Facts aren't racist. If you say any elephant is bigger than any mouse, it isn't racist, is it?

If I lived in the ST reality and in Sisko's time, I would rather kill myself than live the boring life of a Vulcan but I would have to admit that there are many things they can do that were beyond my capabilities. That's called being realist.

 

[Maurice]

False comparison. Bigger and smaller are objective, but "superiority" is not. Objectively, is an elephant superior to a mouse? Bigger, yes, but better? And what does "superior" even mean? Mice are all over the damned planet, elephants are not. So are mice superior because they are more successful and occupy more ecological niches?

Are Vulcans superior because they are physically stronger? Are humans superior to Vulcans because they can easily dissemble and bluff a la "The Corbomite Maneuver"? The serpent is superior to the eagle when it comes to going after prey in burrows, after all, but are snakes superior to eagles in all ways?

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

False comparison. Bigger and smaller are objective, but "superiority" is not. Objectively, is an elephant superior to a mouse? Bigger, yes, but better? And what does "superior" even mean? Mice are all over the damned planet, elephants are not. So are mice superior because they are more successful and occupy more ecological niches?

Are Vulcans superior because they are physically stronger? Are humans superior to Vulcans because they can easily dissemble and bluff a la "The Corbomite Maneuver"? The serpent is superior to the eagle when it comes to going after prey in burrows, after all, but are snakes superior to eagles in all ways?

As you said yourself "superiority" is subjective. It is a matter of opinion. People are free to have opinions, even if those opinions irritate others. In my country the epithet "racist" is applied to objective acts of discrimination, like refusing to hire someone based on skin color. We don't stigmatize people for their opinions. You know what kind of regime oppresses people for their opinions, don't you?

 

[Timo]

I don't quite get that difference between "opinion" and "act". But I'll have a go.

If you throw an opinion at somebody and crush his life, it's his fault for having such a weak life, right?

And if you throw a fist at him and crush his eye socket, it's his fault for having such a weak eye socket, right?

I'm sure I'm getting something confused there. Is it the part where eye sockets actually may heal?

Expressing an opinion is an act. For some, it's an act requiring a stage the size of a planet. Others go for minimalism. Some use words, others use 7.62 mm bullets in short bursts at close range. What that opinion may be can be subjective; its expression is an objective fact unto itself.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[aj1981]

Determined to get an answer I dug out and trawled through my copy of the DS9 Technical Manual (can't believe I've had it for 17 years). To my surprise there was no mention of crew complement for the station but Memory Alpha states DS9 had a combined Starfleet/Bajoran Militia crew of 300 to 2000 (the lower figure presumably at the end of the occupation and the higher figure during the Dominion War). The manual does have figures for the Defiant though, she was designed for a regular crew of around 40 but could carry up to 192 in emergencies. Regarding the scene at the end of "Call To Arms", I always figured that Sisko had all non essential personnel evacuated with the civilians (not all would have been Bajorans, DS9 used to have lots of commercial traffic) and on the Runabouts and just left a skeleton crew to be evacuated on the Defiant and Rotarran.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I don't quite get that difference between "opinion" and "act". But I'll have a go.

If you throw an opinion at somebody and crush his life, it's his fault for having such a weak life, right?

And if you throw a fist at him and crush his eye socket, it's his fault for having such a weak eye socket, right?

I'm sure I'm getting something confused there. Is it the part where eye sockets actually may heal?

Expressing an opinion is an act. For some, it's an act requiring a stage the size of a planet. Others go for minimalism. Some use words, others use 7.62 mm bullets in short bursts at close range. What that opinion may be can be subjective; its expression is an objective fact unto itself.

Timo Saloniemi

Call me crazy, but if I have a choice between hiring people like Solok that brag about being superior and don't drop deadly poison on children and hiring people like Sisko that don't brag about being superior but DO UNAPOLOGETICALLY drop deadly poison on children. I'd rather hire the ones that aren't dangerous psychopaths (IE the former).

Crazy, huh?

Now, you have your example of the difference between "opinion" and "act".

 

[Timo]

If, OTOH, Solok tells that it's his opinion that humans should be bombarded from orbit with undetectable contraceptives so that they don't overrun any superior species with their rampant breeding, and there are fifty thousand takers for his message even when he himself does absolutely nothing to make this happen, I'd certainly rather choose Sisko and his direct action. And not just because I'm also human.

Words have killed more people than swords or bullets throughout world history. Many a bloodbath has been averted by putting a man with an opinion in front of a firing squad. "Liberty of opinion" is in no danger from the occasional slaying of those who speak and write, least of all those who do it professionally. But all other liberties are in great danger if that one is taken too seriously!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

If, OTOH, Solok tells that it's his opinion that humans should be bombarded from orbit with undetectable contraceptives so that they don't overrun any superior species with their rampant breeding, and there are fifty thousand takers for his message even when he himself does absolutely nothing to make this happen, I'd certainly rather choose Sisko and his direct action. And not just because I'm also human.

Words have killed more people than swords or bullets throughout world history. Many a bloodbath has been averted by putting a man with an opinion in front of a firing squad. "Liberty of opinion" is in no danger from the occasional slaying of those who speak and write, least of all those who do it professionally. But all other liberties are in great danger if that one is taken too seriously!

Timo Saloniemi

Why don't you stick to things in the show that we know actually happened instead of these (very) wild speculations?

 

[doubleohfive]

EDIT: Man! This thread really went to a place!

In reply to the original poster:

I seem to recall the DS9 Writer's Bible suggesting that, in the beginning, there were around 50-60 Starfleet officers stationed on DS9. I read someplace else there was the theory that there were probably around 4,000 people living on the station. I don't know how many would have been Starfleet personnel, but it's a fair bet that a significant portion would have been under Sisko's command as Starfleet officers.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

EDIT: Man! This thread really went to a place!

In reply to the original poster:

I seem to recall the DS9 Writer's Bible suggesting that, in the beginning, there were around 50-60 Starfleet officers stationed on DS9. I read someplace else there was the theory that there were probably around 4,000 people living on the station. I don't know how many would have been Starfleet personnel, but it's a fair bet that a significant portion would have been under Sisko's command as Starfleet officers.

I think the question is whether the transients are included in that (4,000) figure and if so what percentage they represent.

 

[drmick]

In Field Of Fire the computer says that there are forty eight Vulcan Starfleet Officers serving on the station. I believe that translates to at least a couple of hundreds Starfleet officers total, especially given Sisko's general dislike of Vulcans.


I mean, Sisko doesn't particularly want Vulcans, so he wouldn't ask for more than the strict minimum serving under his orders.

Sisko only likes black Vulcans.....

(Sorry!)

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

In Field Of Fire the computer says that there are forty eight Vulcan Starfleet Officers serving on the station. I believe that translates to at least a couple of hundreds Starfleet officers total, especially given Sisko's general dislike of Vulcans.


I mean, Sisko doesn't particularly want Vulcans, so he wouldn't ask for more than the strict minimum serving under his orders.

Sisko only likes black Vulcans.....

(Sorry!)

Yes, I didn't know about Avery Brooks' demand to be coupled with black women exclusively until I read it on this site (and it explains why we never see him romantically involved with a non-black woman) but I find quite disturbing that an actor, whoever he is, could do something like that and never get into any kind of trouble, legal or otherwise. Personally I find the whole idea disgusting. So much for multiculture.

 

[tafkats]

I'd like to see a source on that one before I just accept it.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I'd like to see a source on that one before I just accept it.

I've read it on this site and since it coincides with the fact that we never see him romantically involved with a non-black woman on this show or any other show for that matter, I didn't need further proof on that. Hell you do see Michael Dorn with white women then why the hell not Brook as well?

 

[Tosk]

I'd like to see a source on that one before I just accept it.

I've seen it repeated here and there but for some reason people seem to forget that Avery had relations with two white women on the show.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I'd like to see a source on that one before I just accept it.

I've seen it repeated here and there but for some reason people seem to forget that Avery had relations with two white women on the show.

"relations" We're talking about romantic relations. Of course they couldn't possibly make a show with sisko never getting anywhere near a non-black woman, that would be totally impractical, unless you make it an all-black show.

 

[Tosk]

You're willing to believe that Avery specifically asked that his character never enter a romantic relationship with a woman who is not brown (Avery's preferred term) but he's totally cool with it if it's only sex?

I'm not saying if it's true or not (I don't know the man or his motivations beyond what he states publicly), only that "someone said it on TrekBBS" isn't much to go on. The imagined idea that he was never with a woman who wasn't brown on DS9 is spurious 'evidence'.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

You're willing to believe that Avery specifically asked that his character never enter a romantic relationship with a woman who is not brown (Avery's preferred term) but he's totally cool with it if it's only sex?

I'm not saying if it's true or not (I don't know the man or his motivations beyond what he states publicly), only that "someone said it on TrekBBS" isn't much to go on. The imagined idea that he was never with a woman who wasn't brown on DS9 is spurious 'evidence'.

Whom did Sisko have sex with that wasn't "brown"?