NFL 2014-2015 Season Discussion
- Thread starter tomalak301
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Ugh, what the hell? If intentional, why even bother? Colts aren't even in the same league, and it wasn't close.
I guess we'll see where it goes, but curious as to how big a deal they want to make this now. Literally we go from Aaron Rodgers joking about how he loves to over-inflate them and asks the crew to try and sneak more than the allowed amount in, and it's funny, to these balls being a little on the other end and the Patriots should be fined, lose draft picks, vacate the super bowl, etc. Seems like a massive over-reaction to the situation, but getting used to that with public opinion against the Pats.
And how's this happen if the refs test ahead of time like they are required to? And then handle them every play and allowed these balls into the game, didn't notice a problem?
I don't get it...
I guess we'll see where it goes, but curious as to how big a deal they want to make this now. Literally we go from Aaron Rodgers joking about how he loves to over-inflate them and asks the crew to try and sneak more than the allowed amount in, and it's funny, to these balls being a little on the other end and the Patriots should be fined, lose draft picks, vacate the super bowl, etc. Seems like a massive over-reaction to the situation, but getting used to that with public opinion against the Pats.
And how's this happen if the refs test ahead of time like they are required to? And then handle them every play and allowed these balls into the game, didn't notice a problem?
I don't get it...
I will say this. Regardless of whether there was any cheating, I'm extremely skeptical that it could have changed the result of the game. Also, either way, this is an easy fix going forward and a no-brainer to do. The NFL should supply the balls to both teams and keep all the spares.
I'm good with all of that, and yeah, can't for a second pretend this was part of the outcome. Allegedly the refs went in and put air in the balls at halftime, and the Pats outscored the Colts 28-0 in the second half, so...
For once, though, i'd love to see the NFL not fuck up an investigation. Let's really lay this thing out there and see what's going on. Don't just leak a few facts and then come down on the Pats because it's demanded and it'll make it go away the fastest.
For example, let's start by having them say whether they also checked the Colts' balls. If they're also low, means either both were doing it (and refs suck at their jobs or just know it's a normal thing in shitty weather and look the other way usually) OR it means that conditions were a factor in the eventual deflation.
In general, if you fill it to the legal minimum because you want it soft, and do it at room temp (say, 70 degrees), and then go put them outside for a few hours in 40s weather that's raining, not hard to imagine that they will check in at under legal PSI later in the evening. So, knowing whether the Colts' balls were affected is kinda important, no? No mention of even checking them, though.
So, let's say they DO check the Colts' balls, and they're low but acceptable. Now we're on the Pats. Did the refs actually do their jobs and check them pre-game? Were they legal then? At the minimum 12.5 psi, or were they even higher?
Ok, now we've got legal balls that became illegal, and only affected Pats, so action was taken. Or they were defective balls or something, or stored differently, but seems pretty odd that that many affected, so we'll say intentional. How does this happen? Balls are secured, and then handled only by the ball crew. Are they doctoring them on the sidelines in view of everyone? Really? Seems pretty questionable, and THIS is the case where they've gotta hammer someone, I think.
Ok, now we're on the field playing. Refs are handling every ball before the play starts. No one notices or says anything. Can they not tell? Or is this because they were known to be low before and refs were ok with it then? Or were they low but legal at the start, and slowly getting worse as it went on? Sorta matters which. Doubt we'll hear back on any of that either.
So, would love to actually flesh this thing out some before we get the random arbitrary penalty. Because it was either not a big deal, done all the time, and with the refs' knowledge, a factor of the weather/temp and happened on its own, or an action taken by the Pats (which would be stupid, but not out of the realm for sure). We'll be punished like it was the latter regardless, but option 3 is the only one that should involve ANY punishment, so would kinda like to know.
Instead, sure we'll get a half assed investigation, no follow-up or admission that it was common practice (again), and lose a big draft pick and get fined. Maybe they'll suspend Belichick this time too. Although to be really fair, it's not like Belichick should have anything to do with this one. It's really between the equipment crew and the Quarterback, so if it was done intentionally, and after the check-in, it's because Brady told them he wanted them a little soft, right? But we hate Belichick more, so that's where it will land.
For once, though, i'd love to see the NFL not fuck up an investigation. Let's really lay this thing out there and see what's going on. Don't just leak a few facts and then come down on the Pats because it's demanded and it'll make it go away the fastest.
For example, let's start by having them say whether they also checked the Colts' balls. If they're also low, means either both were doing it (and refs suck at their jobs or just know it's a normal thing in shitty weather and look the other way usually) OR it means that conditions were a factor in the eventual deflation.
In general, if you fill it to the legal minimum because you want it soft, and do it at room temp (say, 70 degrees), and then go put them outside for a few hours in 40s weather that's raining, not hard to imagine that they will check in at under legal PSI later in the evening. So, knowing whether the Colts' balls were affected is kinda important, no? No mention of even checking them, though.
So, let's say they DO check the Colts' balls, and they're low but acceptable. Now we're on the Pats. Did the refs actually do their jobs and check them pre-game? Were they legal then? At the minimum 12.5 psi, or were they even higher?
Ok, now we've got legal balls that became illegal, and only affected Pats, so action was taken. Or they were defective balls or something, or stored differently, but seems pretty odd that that many affected, so we'll say intentional. How does this happen? Balls are secured, and then handled only by the ball crew. Are they doctoring them on the sidelines in view of everyone? Really? Seems pretty questionable, and THIS is the case where they've gotta hammer someone, I think.
Ok, now we're on the field playing. Refs are handling every ball before the play starts. No one notices or says anything. Can they not tell? Or is this because they were known to be low before and refs were ok with it then? Or were they low but legal at the start, and slowly getting worse as it went on? Sorta matters which. Doubt we'll hear back on any of that either.
So, would love to actually flesh this thing out some before we get the random arbitrary penalty. Because it was either not a big deal, done all the time, and with the refs' knowledge, a factor of the weather/temp and happened on its own, or an action taken by the Pats (which would be stupid, but not out of the realm for sure). We'll be punished like it was the latter regardless, but option 3 is the only one that should involve ANY punishment, so would kinda like to know.
Instead, sure we'll get a half assed investigation, no follow-up or admission that it was common practice (again), and lose a big draft pick and get fined. Maybe they'll suspend Belichick this time too. Although to be really fair, it's not like Belichick should have anything to do with this one. It's really between the equipment crew and the Quarterback, so if it was done intentionally, and after the check-in, it's because Brady told them he wanted them a little soft, right? But we hate Belichick more, so that's where it will land.
See, the problem is the same as the Spygate thing (sorry!): I agree it didn't make a difference, BUT...if it didn't make a difference, why do it? You don't violate NFL rules on purpose (assuming that's what happened) for no reason. What other possible motive could there be? They apparently believed it would give them an advantage, and then whether it actually did or not becomes irrelevant.
If this story turns out to be true, which I didn't think it was at the beginning, then I call bullshit on that. WTF???!?!
This is bizarre. And I was willing to give NE the benefit of the doubt at first... I guess we'll find out more as it goes along.
Not cool, Patriots.
As they say in NASCAR, if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'.
I am absolutely certain the Patriots cheat, it just so happens that they are far more creative and far better at it than all the other cheaters in the league. Rumors of improper drug use in Seattle have swirled around for years, and if you watch their defense play its fairly obvious they are playing at an "enhanced" level, particularly in the later parts of the game. But they haven't gotten caught. Every team in the NFL would do whatever it takes to win, even cheat, but most aren't good enough to get away with it as consistently as the Pats have.
Of course the Pats also have a world class QB and coach, so that helps. It doesn't do you much good to cheat if you have Geno Smith or Ryan Lindley under center.
I am absolutely certain the Patriots cheat, it just so happens that they are far more creative and far better at it than all the other cheaters in the league. Rumors of improper drug use in Seattle have swirled around for years, and if you watch their defense play its fairly obvious they are playing at an "enhanced" level, particularly in the later parts of the game. But they haven't gotten caught. Every team in the NFL would do whatever it takes to win, even cheat, but most aren't good enough to get away with it as consistently as the Pats have.
Of course the Pats also have a world class QB and coach, so that helps. It doesn't do you much good to cheat if you have Geno Smith or Ryan Lindley under center.
Balls are returned to the sidelines of each team following the most immediate check prior to gametime (fifteen minutes, I believe) -- otherwise backup quarterbacks couldn't warm up, kickers couldn't warm up, etc. My best guess is they simply swapped the ball bag.
I don't find this terribly egregious; everyone doctors footballs to their quarterback's liking. But it's a brutal narrative for the NFL, which is why they probably have to do something in the wake of all their PR misfires over the past 18 months. The league is either going to bury this as an "accident" or take high draft picks; I can't really see anything in-between.
The Seahawks' primary pass defense strategy is to interfere so much the officials can't call it.
The Seahawks' primary pass defense strategy is to interfere so much the officials can't call it.
That's the ticket! The zebras won't notice it if you do it consistently.
Guess that's part of the frustration as a Pats fan. Twice in a row now (counting Spygate) the narrative has swept towards giving the Pats a crushing penalty just to make the story go away, completely ignoring that the thing they were busted for was common practice. And it never goes any farther than that, so it dies at Patriots horrible Cheaters instead of identifying the league-wide issue (if 'issue' even qualifies). Climb up on the high horses and pretend no one does this, even while Aaron Rodgers jokes about doing exactly that. But Patriots are the devil, so everyone else gets a pass.
Just would like the rest of this story to come out prior to the penalty this time. If they were being overly 'creative' with things, yeah, penalty. If the balls were lighter ahead of time, and out of line with the Colts balls, and this is an unspoken practice in general, then let's move on this time.
Sick of pretending Pats are the only guilty party when these things come up. And don't make the Pats penalty extra-high because they did nothing when Ray Rice beat his girlfriend...
No other scape goat there, so had to bury it. Can't take draft picks away from themselves. Of note, though, no penalty for the Ravens for trying to get the NFL to bury this and get him off without penalty. Can't get in trouble for the beating, but Ravens didn't cover themselves in glory in the aftermath...
^So bringing up the Ray Rice situation (once again 
) in an attempt to deflect criticism from the Hernandez, spygate, football deflating almighty Pats.
Time to drag out the big ass asterisk on another Patriots season.
Model franchise my hind parts.
) in an attempt to deflect criticism from the Hernandez, spygate, football deflating almighty Pats.Time to drag out the big ass asterisk on another Patriots season.
Model franchise my hind parts.
They probably didn't think they could prove it. Now they have proof. It's just another thing the Hawks will have to prepare for. If the Pats get to play, the Hawks will watch for cheating.
Or one of the scummier franchises in the league just saw an opportunity to fire some shots at their current biggest rival and took it.
And of course the Patriots are going to play. If any punishment is meted out it will probably be a fine and a loss of a draft pick.
ETA: And I can see them possibly suspending Belichick this time. But the idea that the Patriots won't play in the Super Bowl is ludicrous.
And of course the Patriots are going to play. If any punishment is meted out it will probably be a fine and a loss of a draft pick.
ETA: And I can see them possibly suspending Belichick this time. But the idea that the Patriots won't play in the Super Bowl is ludicrous.
^So bringing up the Ray Rice situation (once again
Time to drag out the big ass asterisk on another Patriots season.
Model franchise my hind parts.
Well I mean hell we could bring up Ray Rice, Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs...
Hell atleast they cut Hernandez after the accusations, and didn't welcome him back with open arms ala Ray Lewis.
I love the people saying oh that the Seahawks are now gonna have to watch out for the Pats cheating, yet all of these former quarterbacks and NFL experts coming out today on twitter and in the press saying this is completely overblown and no big deal....
Explain that to me.
And to everyone bringing up Spygate, do you really even know the actual violation they were fined for?
They hate us cause they ain't us is very appropriate here.
Sorry, doesn't prove anything. Feels more like "me too" bandwagon jumping there, any excuse as to why they lost after the trash talking, again. Can't imagine that if this was on purpose, that the game against the Colts was when they decided to bust it out for the first time, though. Doesn't surprise me to see the Ravens try to latch on, though.
Seeing as how the refs handled every single ball and didn't think anything was out of the ordinary just suggests that this isn't a big deal, and likely happens a lot. My impression, at least. Otherwise the refs are beyond the incompetence of the replacement refs, I suppose...
And you'd have to be retarded to think that the balls won't be under pretty close scrutiny now for the Superbowl, can't imagine any shenanigans there Peach. Tell you what, though: you can personally weigh every ball the Pats use if we can drug test a few of the Seahawk players. Know we're piling on the Pats again, but let's not pretend other teams are saints...
I keep thinking some Seahawks player is going to accidentally slip up and say something like, "Geez, no one comes after us like this when we cheat," and then all of a sudden all their Adderall prescriptions come to light.
Although, as I said earlier, the Seahawks' brand of cheating is just to commit penalties on every play.
See, the problem is the same as the Spygate thing (sorry!): I agree it didn't make a difference, BUT...if it didn't make a difference, why do it? You don't violate NFL rules on purpose (assuming that's what happened) for no reason. What other possible motive could there be? They apparently believed it would give them an advantage, and then whether it actually did or not becomes irrelevant.
If this story turns out to be true, which I didn't think it was at the beginning, then I call bullshit on that. WTF???!?!
This is bizarre. And I was willing to give NE the benefit of the doubt at first... I guess we'll find out more as it goes along.
I agree with that. An intent to gain an unfair advantage is a big deal regardless of whether it succeeds. And a team that has been implicated in the past should be above reproach. I think it's all problematic, I just think the fact that it probably didn't impact the game should be kept in mind.
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