Number of Star Fleet officers on DS9

[Enabran]

I was recently rewatching 'The Siege' and at the beginning sisko holds a little speech where it seems he is addressing all star fleet officers on DS9. However, there only seem to be about 20 or at the most 30 officers. Were there really only this many star fleet officers aboard for the first two seasons?

 

[MacLeod]

Well I suspect the actual number is a bit higher, no doubt some evacuated with the civillians to make sure they were safe.

 

[Ithekro]

It is still a Bajoran station, so a lot of the roles are filled with Bajorans. The command staff and other senior positions seem to be filled with Starfleet officers to run the station effectively for both Bajor and the Federation. The main exception is Odo running security.

 

[tafkats]

It is still a Bajoran station, so a lot of the roles are filled with Bajorans. The command staff and other senior positions seem to be filled with Starfleet officers to run the station effectively for both Bajor and the Federation. The main exception is Odo running security.

Which may display questionable judgment on Starfleet's part. I mean, you're asked to help out a people who have just come out of 60 years of being oppressed by another species, who have a fairly strong nativist movement on their planet ... you should really do everything possible to avoid making it look like there's an overclass of Starfleet officers telling an underclass of Bajoran worker bees what to do. Even if the senior staff is all non-Bajoran except for Kira, having more Starfleet personnel in the lower ranks would at least even out the ratios...

 

[Inactive-Shapeshifter]

Well taking that all starfleet personnel was evacuated of the station to the Defiant in "call to arms" it would appear that the number could not be bigger than the maximum of the ship. The Defiant wasn't a big ship, especially if compared with the station. So, i would say that there are indeed few starfleet personnel on DS9.

 

[Timo]

A single runabout can pack something like sixty people when needed (say, "The Homecoming"). Surely the Defiant, not significantly smaller than Kirk's old ship even if perhaps with more machinery inside the hull, could have carried hundreds!

As for the looks of the Starfleet vs. Bajoran officers issue, it would only be natural for most of the enlisted workforce be Bajoran. Indeed, any sending in of more Starfleeters would be seen as an attempt to deprive Bajorans of much-needed jobs. Yet officer responsibilities might well have been evenly divided.

What departments were there on DS9? We have every reason to think Bashir led the medical department, and Dax the (supposedly tiny) scientific one. But Odo never played the role of defending the station against external or internal invaders, except as a foot soldier as in "Way of the Warrior". He was just the civilian law enforcement boss, even if with access to military resources when those weren't needed elsewhere. There would have been separate departments for operating the station's weapons and internal defenses, and those could very well have been led by Bajoran officers of rank comparable to that of the Starfleet folks left behind in "The Siege". Their deserting the station in said episode would also be a politically and tactically important gesture. Sure, we got Lieutenant Primmin and later Lieutenant Commander Eddington for supposed security department command, but especially early on these delicate military issues may have required the maintaining of two parallel security forces.

Also, the station would have plenty of engineering-related tasks. Bajorans would be the ones to know the equipment, so they would make for the best bosses in maintenance and logistics. Sure, Kira seemed to do a lot of "space traffic control" at Ops, but we really should assume there was a whole department for shipping logistics, or perhaps two, one for managing the movement of ships and another for managing the flow of cargo, again with Bajoran officers in command.

As for station maintenance, O'Brien always was more a de facto than de jure boss. Many of his "underlings" were officers, with both Starfleet and Bajoran Ensigns in evidence.

On the balance, it might very well be that there were more Bajoran Lieutenants on the station than Starfleet ones during the early days. In "Captive Pursuit", O'Brien says the station team numbers 300 people - supposedly, this is the operating crew, excluding civilians and passersby, both because we hear much larger numbers quoted in other contexts, and because O'Brien could hardly give a figure on the numbers of passersby or even civilian residents considering the constant state of flux. Bajorans might have amounted for 250 out of those 300, and Bajoran officers for 50 out of those 250.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The Enterprise could house thousands and thousands of refugees, but the Defiant was specifically stated to have 'No comforts', and to be optimized for only combat efficiency. It couldn't carry much more than its usual compliment.

At the beginning most of the crew as probably maintenance officers stationed all over the station in the pylons and outer rings that we don't see much.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

In Field Of Fire the computer says that there are forty eight Vulcan Starfleet Officers serving on the station. I believe that translates to at least a couple of hundreds Starfleet officers total, especially given Sisko's general dislike of Vulcans.


I mean, Sisko doesn't particularly want Vulcans, so he wouldn't ask for more than the strict minimum serving under his orders.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

In Field Of Fire the computer says that there are forty eight Vulcan Starfleet Officers serving on the station. I believe that translates to at least a couple of hundreds Starfleet officers total, especially given Sisko's general dislike of Vulcans.


I mean, Sisko doesn't particularly want Vulcans, so he wouldn't ask for more than the strict minimum serving under his orders.

I strongly disagree that Sisko would refuse a crew assignment out of racism. Even if he personally finds average Vulcan personality traits annoying, he would request the most capable officer, not the officer with the right species.

But, we can probably speculate that Vulcans are the second most populous race in Starfleet, so 48 vulcans translates to several hundred. They probably vastly increased the Starfleet presence after Jem Hadar and even more when the war heated up.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

In Field Of Fire the computer says that there are forty eight Vulcan Starfleet Officers serving on the station. I believe that translates to at least a couple of hundreds Starfleet officers total, especially given Sisko's general dislike of Vulcans.


I mean, Sisko doesn't particularly want Vulcans, so he wouldn't ask for more than the strict minimum serving under his orders.

I strongly disagree that Sisko would refuse a crew assignment out of racism. Even if he personally finds average Vulcan personality traits annoying, he would request the most capable officer, not the officer with the right species.

But, we can probably speculate that Vulcans are the second most populous race in Starfleet, so 48 vulcans translates to several hundred. They probably vastly increased the Starfleet presence after Jem Hadar and even more when the war heated up.

As a commanding officer, sisko gets to choose his crew, he won't refuse a Vulcan candidate systematically, that much is obvious, but he'll regard them likely with more skepticism than the others, consciously or not.

You're probably right on that last line, but that still means that there was at least about a hundred starfleet officers in peace time. Multiplying their number by three seems dramatic enough to me.

 

[Rahul]

It's funny, DS9 really is the only series where we have no real clue about how many crewmen or visitors are on board.

We know it's operated by Starfleet and Bajor in cooperation, with Starfleet (Sisko) being in the lead and Bajor (Kira) as 'first officer' having a big voice. Security (Odo) is mostly in Bajor's hand, with support by a few Starfleet experts. Science (Dax) and medical (Bashir) are both marginal portions who don't weigh much in station politics, so it's easy to see why Bajor let both be Starfleet: they have more experts on these areas to spare. Now engineering is also lead by Starfleet (O'Brian). But that is why Starfleet is here: To send trained personal to rebuild the station. Most of his men are probably Bajorans, with most of them probably not educated in engineering, but who learned it in the field during the occupation. That probably bugs Bajor the most, and the long-term goal may be that after the station is repaired and enough personal trained, the Bajorans can take back daily operations and engineering on the station and leave Starfleet only in some 'decision-making' positions.


But now to the rough numbers on the station:

I'm in season 2 now, and I already have the feeling that the station get's more and more crowded. It makes sense in context: During the pilot the station was trash. They even bribed Quark to stay on the station and bring life to it.

As it's a station, it probably has a very variable amount of people who have to be on board, depending on the number of visitors and technical systems that are currently active. And the ability to house a huge amount of people in general (vistors, merchants etc.). Since there are only a few big technical devices (like Runabouts and energy reactors), most of the space is probably cargo and living areas (unlike our starships, where most of the space is filled with big technical devices, like engines, reactors and shuttle bays).

In 'Captive pursuit' I had the feeling that O'Brian meant there are a total of 300 people an board, visitors included. Which in my eyes would make sense: maybe 20 - 30 Starfleet personal for the station, plus another 10 - 20 to maintain the Runabouts and docking areas, with another 100 Bajorans, most of them in the engineering corps and administration. Now, in season 2, the station is much more crowded: New shops have opened, new bars and diners (even a klingon one!), and DS9 has generally become an important hub in this sector, with ships docking and leaving on a regular basis. Therefore the number of people (visitors) could have easily been around 1000 or more, with an unsteady increase in Starfleet and Bajoran personal to manage daily operations. But I would still assume much less than 100 Starfleet officers, maybe 60 or 70, and about double as many Bajoran personal.

Now, as soon as they get the Defiant, things get complicated. I don't know if the ship has a regular crew or is made up by the station crew. But being a starship she has many complicated technical systems, like weapon systems, warp reactor and nacelles, a shuttle bay and a shuttle, all of whom require special trained personal. Since it's a small ship, let's go with more than a hundred additional Starfleet guys.

Now as I understand it, there is a big war later going on. This would mean that the station is an important base, where warships stop and get fixed. This would mean the DS9 crew would be increased heavily with engineering guys to fix the starships, but still only a small crew for station operations. Since I haven't yet seen those episodes, I'm goint to assume a few hundred guys, maybe 500, for the first time with Starfleet personal outweighing the Bajoran personal (but with a majoraty of Bajoran personal in station operations). But additional to the visitors (whose numbers may have gone down to heavily under 1000 because of the war), there is a vast amount of Starfleet personal short-term on the station, either to get re-assigned or rotating from different posts to other areas of operation. Meaning we have an additional 500 to 1000 Starfleet guys on board, who are not directly serving on the station (and out of whom 50 vulcans totally makes sense).


Now about the Defiant: Her being a warship doesn't matter at all. It would still have a cargo area, and a big shuttlebay. So even though it might be close and crowded for a crew of more than 100 on a longer mission, she would still be able to carry a giant amount of people for a short flight. When all Starfleet personal are crammed in the cargo and shuttle areas and in all the corridors, the Defiant may be able to transport way over 1000 people from one destination to the nearest base. It wouldn't be comfortable, but that's usually not what evacuations are.

In short:
So, I'm going with a very small crew for DS9 (of maybe 50 - 100 and increasing Starfleet personal with always about double the amount of Bajoran personal), who steadily increases as DS9 becomes a merchant hub, plus the Defiant crew, plus between 200 and 1000 visitors (depending on the period), and a residence for hundreds and hundreds of Starfleet guys as a military base during war.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

In terms of stated numbers, as I recall from the "Making of DS9" book, series bible and/or the Companion, the original complement was supposed to be around 20 Starfleet officers and their families out of a total population of around 300, though this was never outright stated. In "Captive Pursuit" O'Brien tells Tosk that there are three hundred people aboard, "give or take" (looked up the transcript online). Finally, in "Field of Fire" Odo notes that there are over nine hundred Starfleet officers stationed there, including forty-eight Vulcans.

There is really no issue of available space on DS9, so having a permanent stationed complement of several thousand by the time of the Dominion War is no stretch of the imagination. At the beginning, DS9 was only ever an outpost just taking advantage of the existing infrastructure left over; as late as the third season ("Civil Defense") they were still finding places that had been untouched since the occupation. It was only when the Dominion threat reared its head that a true danger of DS9 getting into direct conflict came about, and I like to think that the Defiant's arrival was the vanguard of lots of additional people and equipment starting to show up (Eddington showed up at the same time after all).

When DS9 was re-taken in the sixth season it was quickly made the headquarters of the allied ninth fleet under Martok, also meaning additional personnel would be needed there. I have no problems believing that the complement would shrink after wartime as well and once a sense of normalcy was re-established, meaning a probable population of only a few hundred Starfleet, or even fewer depending on what the station would be tasked with doing. Seems Sisko got out of his job just before the downsizing would have begun.

Mark

Addendum - found the series bible. It states that around two hundred people, mostly Bajorans, would comprise the initial population. Around fifty Starfleet officers and crewmen would be added there "by episode three".

http://leethomson.myzen.co.uk/Star_Trek/3_Deep_Space_Nine/Star_Trek_-_Deep_Space_Nine_Bible.pdf

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

In terms of stated numbers, as I recall from the "Making of DS9" book, series bible and/or the Companion, the original complement was supposed to be around 20 Starfleet officers and their families out of a total population of around 300, though this was never outright stated. In "Captive Pursuit" O'Brien tells Tosk that there are three hundred people aboard, "give or take" (looked up the transcript online). Finally, in "Field of Fire" Odo notes that there are over nine hundred Starfleet officers stationed there, including forty-eight Vulcans.

There is really no issue of available space on DS9, so having a permanent stationed complement of several thousand by the time of the Dominion War is no stretch of the imagination. At the beginning, DS9 was only ever an outpost just taking advantage of the existing infrastructure left over; as late as the third season ("Civil Defense") they were still finding places that had been untouched since the occupation. It was only when the Dominion threat reared its head that a true danger of DS9 getting into direct conflict came about, and I like to think that the Defiant's arrival was the vanguard of lots of additional people and equipment starting to show up (Eddington showed up at the same time after all).

When DS9 was re-taken in the sixth season it was quickly made the headquarters of the allied ninth fleet under Martok, also meaning additional personnel would be needed there. I have no problems believing that the complement would shrink after wartime as well and once a sense of normalcy was re-established, meaning a probable population of only a few hundred Starfleet, or even fewer depending on what the station would be tasked with doing. Seems Sisko got out of his job just before the downsizing would have begun.

Mark

Addendum - found the series bible. It states that around two hundred people, mostly Bajorans, would comprise the initial population. Around fifty Starfleet officers and crewmen would be added there "by episode three".

http://leethomson.myzen.co.uk/Star_Trek/3_Deep_Space_Nine/Star_Trek_-_Deep_Space_Nine_Bible.pdf

So that means the Vulcans made up about five percent, (one in twenty), of the starfleet officers... Sounds about right.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

In Civil Defense Kira states there are several hundred Bajoran workers living in the habitat ring.

@Kobayashi

I guess you're right he could exercise unconscious bias toward Vulcans, but if he's aware of his bias he also may he less hard on Vulcans to prove to himself he's not racist. Sisko's smart enough to separate his professional feelings from his personal feelings though except when it comes to people who he is personally close to or have personally wronged him.

 

[tafkats]

Where does the idea that Sisko dislikes Vulcans come from? Sure, he doesn't like Solok, but Solok is a racist ass. And Sisko probably would have had trouble being an effective first officer for the Vulcan captain of the Saratoga if he had that level of prejudice.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

In Civil Defense Kira states there are several hundred Bajoran workers living in the habitat ring.

@Kobayashi

I guess you're right he could exercise unconscious bias toward Vulcans, but if he's aware of his bias he also may he less hard on Vulcans to prove to himself he's not racist. Sisko's smart enough to separate his professional feelings from his personal feelings though except when it comes to people who he is personally close to or have personally wronged him.

You are so wrong! Why do I need remind you that Sisko dropped DEADLY poison on a planet with CHILDREN on it, just because one man (Eddington) pushed his buttons a couple of times. If that doesn't qualify as mixing his personal feelings with his duties and compromising his StarFleet officer's ethics then I don't know what does.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Where does the idea that Sisko dislikes Vulcans come from? Sure, he doesn't like Solok, but Solok is a racist ass. And Sisko probably would have had trouble being an effective first officer for the Vulcan captain of the Saratoga if he had that level of prejudice.

All that Solok does is mock him, he doesn't threaten him, he didn't steal anything from him, he's not a danger to him or his family. If Sisko's not mature enough not to let that kind of peccadillo bother him, let alone get him all worked up. He has no business being a captain, in fact, he has no business being with adults, he belongs with pimply faced adolescents.

 

[tafkats]

Where does the idea that Sisko dislikes Vulcans come from? Sure, he doesn't like Solok, but Solok is a racist ass. And Sisko probably would have had trouble being an effective first officer for the Vulcan captain of the Saratoga if he had that level of prejudice.

All that Solok does is mock him, he doesn't threaten him, he didn't steal anything from him, he's not a danger to him or his family. If Sisko's not mature enough not to let that kind of peccadillo bother him, let alone get him all worked up. He has no business being a captain, in fact, he has no business being with adults, he belongs with pimply faced adolescents.

Flagrant racism isn't something a Starfleet captain has any business being bothered by?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

In Civil Defense Kira states there are several hundred Bajoran workers living in the habitat ring.

@Kobayashi

I guess you're right he could exercise unconscious bias toward Vulcans, but if he's aware of his bias he also may he less hard on Vulcans to prove to himself he's not racist. Sisko's smart enough to separate his professional feelings from his personal feelings though except when it comes to people who he is personally close to or have personally wronged him.

You are so wrong! Why do I need remind you that Sisko dropped DEADLY poison on a planet with CHILDREN on it, just because one man (Eddington) pushed his buttons a couple of times. If that doesn't qualify as mixing his personal feelings with his duties and compromising his StarFleet officer's ethics then I don't know what does.

A) Eddington did the same thing and threatened to continuously do it if his demands weren't meant. Just a less murderous form of terrorism.

If Al Qaeda dropped a bomb on New York that didn't kill anybody but made New York unlivable to humans, would you tolerate it? But, separate topic.

B) That doesn't contradict what I said about Sisko. I said, 'Except when it comes to people who have personally wronged him', which Eddington did. Only one Vulcan has ever personally wronged Sisko.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Where does the idea that Sisko dislikes Vulcans come from? Sure, he doesn't like Solok, but Solok is a racist ass. And Sisko probably would have had trouble being an effective first officer for the Vulcan captain of the Saratoga if he had that level of prejudice.

All that Solok does is mock him, he doesn't threaten him, he didn't steal anything from him, he's not a danger to him or his family. If Sisko's not mature enough not to let that kind of peccadillo bother him, let alone get him all worked up. He has no business being a captain, in fact, he has no business being with adults, he belongs with pimply faced adolescents.

Flagrant racism isn't something a Starfleet captain has any business being bothered by?

Calling it racism is streching it. As I said the worst Solok is guilty of here is opinion. Solok received twice the higherst honor of the federation, that's way more important than whatever he says to Sisko to get his goat. Besides Sisko's reaction is proof that at least when it comes to him, Solok is right. He lets his emotions get the better of himself.

Solok is irritating and bad company and likely boring as hell, but that's nothing compared to his accomplishments and his contribution to the war effort.