Last Christmas Grading and Discussion Thread

[Joel_Kirk]

I think that was me. But it wasn't meant to be racist. I just commented on my observation. I had no problem with Rose and Mickey, nor Martha and her Dr. Boyfriend (who was white), nor Donna and Lance (well, he turned out to be a traitor to Earth) or the guy she eventually married. I commented on it because it looked like they (the producers) cast Clara's boyfriend with a black actor just because. There HAS to be other British actors out there, white, black, yellow or brown that had more chemistry with Clara than they got.

Well, it should be 'just because.'

'White' is usually the default anyhow when casting choices are made - 'just because' - so there shouldn't be a sudden issue since they went with a 'black' actor to portray Jenna Louise-Coleman's onscreen boyfriend. If it was just his acting that was the problem, okay. His race shouldn't be the problem or the cause of discomfort; it shouldn't have even been brought up.

Shonda was playing Beer Pong on an episode of the Mindy Project recently.

This woman's magic comes from constructing a series of delayed explosions throughout the course of a season each more shocking and relevant than the last.

Giving her just one episode?

Not enough.

Yeah, I need to see that episode of The Mindy Project. I haven't heard her speak yet....(I've only seen pictures and have read her comments on her shows and social issues - race and gender).

Rhimes is someone I would like to meet (and maybe work with) someday.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

I think that was me. But it wasn't meant to be racist. I just commented on my observation. I had no problem with Rose and Mickey, nor Martha and her Dr. Boyfriend (who was white), nor Donna and Lance (well, he turned out to be a traitor to Earth) or the guy she eventually married. I commented on it because it looked like they (the producers) cast Clara's boyfriend with a black actor just because. There HAS to be other British actors out there, white, black, yellow or brown that had more chemistry with Clara than they got.

I'm not sure that's true, I think the writing was at fault. I've no idea what Joel Kirk is seeing because it's not been around here, or in Britain at all, as far as I could see. Should there be more casting of ethnic minorities, sure, is there a backlash of a racist nature towards mixed race couples? Not for the last couple of decades. Just because it's that way in the US doesn't make it true for British TV.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I can't believe we associate the weakness of the Danny-Clara dynamic to race issues and relegate the discussion to such a level. Can't it be possible that Moffat and co. just didn't realize this war-veteran-with-a-heart-of-gold well enough? Cause to me, that clearly is the case. Nothing race-related.

 

[chardman]

What the heck?! It was made totally clear in the <insert episode title> that <Danny/Davros/Daleks/The Master/virtually any & all previous incarnations of The Doctor> is gone for good.

Fixed that for you. Characters that have been definitively resolved reappear all the time on this show. Or hadn't you noticed?

It seems that Moffat got the message that the character was <a whiney, needy, bore/much beloved & the subject of much slash fic>.

Fixed that for you as well.

It's also clear that Clara will be travelling with the Doctor and their baggage was dealt with and done with, unless it ever again serves a useful purpose storywise, in which case it will return, full force.

It should be <great/dull as dirt>!

Ditto

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I've wondered if Clara and Danny didn't have chemistry because they weren't supposed to and Clara's interest in Danny was founded on a sham, namely Orson. Perhaps the Doctor engineered the situation in "Listen" so that Clara would form an emotional attachment to someone that would result in a weapon he could use against the Master in "Death in Heaven." The Doctor used the blackboard to pass messages to himself from the future, which is how he knew to set it all up. The result is a long game as manipulative as any the seventh Doctor ran.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Yeah, but the clues towards that have been speculative, at best.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Yeah, but the clues towards that have been speculative, at best.

It's not like it could ever be explicit. "Oh, by the way, Clara, I manipulated your relationship with Danny so that he would sacrifice himself and save the world" -- yeah, like that would go over well.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

While I agree, I can't in good faith see that being Moffat's logic behind this. It just doesn't seem feasible, to me at least.

 

[JoeZhang]

I just don't see anything on screen to support it nor in any commentary by anyone on the show.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I just don't see anything on screen to support it nor in any commentary by anyone on the show.

I don't think Moffat or anyone involved intended this reading of series 8. This theory is, I freely admit, a fannish retcon to make sense of something I found inexplicable -- why did Clara stay with a guy she had little chemistry with, whom she had no problem lying to repeatedly, and didn't really seem to like a whole lot until he was dead?

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Well, she DID say she loved him... was that just to convince herself?

 

[The Wormhole]

Well, posters on a Trek site don't really constitute 'everybody.' Too, I understand - on this board - there were those who hated the character because he was a handsome black man kissing an attractive white woman...so, there are certain unethical/racist reasons why the character is disliked.

Hardly, there are those (myself included) who would have preferred a relationship between Clara and Rigsy from Flatline instead of Danny, so clearly race isn't the issue. He was just a really bland and uninteresting character.

Well, maybe for some race wasn't an issue, but there were those who were vocal about the Who producers 'forcing' interracial relationships on the audience. So to say race was completely a non-issue with those who hate the Danny character is nonsense. We're coming to the usual 'It's not about race' card when in some cases, it is.

When time permits, I'm going back to search in one of the Who review threads to find said comments about producers 'forcing interracial relationships' since I also want to put those comments in my 'Race and Fandom' blog.

Okay, I do vaguely remember stuff in the review threads for Into the Dalek or The Caretaker, but to be completely honest, I don't pay attention to people who voice those opinions. Those people are bigoted douchebags and its best to ignore them.

But regardless, I'm fairly certain they are a minority of the ant-Danny camp and most people who are against the character are against him because of how he was written, not what colour his skin is. At the very least, I feel confident no one in this very thread felt race was an issue.

I think Samuel Anderson is a Cylon, just like Sam Anders is a Cylon. If he wasn't a Cylon, then why the frakk would his parents name him that?

On that note, what is Samuel Anderson's middle name? IMDB and Wikipedia don't have it listed, but it would be awesome if it began with T.

I've wondered if Clara and Danny didn't have chemistry because they weren't supposed to and Clara's interest in Danny was founded on a sham, namely Orson. Perhaps the Doctor engineered the situation in "Listen" so that Clara would form an emotional attachment to someone that would result in a weapon he could use against the Master in "Death in Heaven." The Doctor used the blackboard to pass messages to himself from the future, which is how he knew to set it all up. The result is a long game as manipulative as any the seventh Doctor ran.

Hell, maybe the Doctor is even responsible for both of them getting hired at Coal Hill. Sure would explain how they're both teachers despite not having enough time to get education degrees.

 

[DWF]

I don't think the problem is Danny's chemistry with Clara, it's just that Danny has no real place on the show, he's got no interest in revelling with the Doctor and seeing the univese. And really if Clara were a normal companion she'd have no time for a job or a boyfriend.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Yeah, but even a bland, pointless character can lit up the screen by a charismatic actor.

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that Danny was miscast.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You are %100 right.

I agree with you, that Sam should have been Father Christmas.

Danny Pink... Danny Blue?

Gotta wonder how many more of them are out there.

Get a Spectrum Force of Dannies set up?

Danny Blue seems to be taking over for Capaldi on Musketeers.

Evil looks good on Elton.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

I don't think Danny was miscast. I think the issue with the character was that he had an unbelievable past (sergeant in five years in the army) and that the reason for his leaving the army, the death of a kid, was briefly mentioned and then handled off-screen by Clara. There could be an episode, like Ghost Light, wherein Danny confronts his past as a passenger on the Doctor's TARDIS.

The BBC is attempting to save the show, for there is a growing chorus of complaints about the course of the show. The show is losing viewers. When it premiered, it had 10 million viewers. Now, it is averaging six to seven million.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-who-go-back-time-4914953

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Mirror is a liar.

Lies sells mirrors.

Which says more about us for buying lies, than Mirrors forcing writers to write lies for we to buy.

 

[Jax]

^^ The newspapers know shit about the actual state of the show, they report overnight numbers as final audience figures with no mention of TV % Share and the fact the whole TV landscape has changed dramatically from 2005 when the show came back to BTW solid but not stellar ratings over the course of the whole 13 episodes. A few people complain like few % of the actual base and probably more casual viewers than anything else and all of a sudden we have a panic Shows lose audience after several years never mind 10 years and the show worldwide has NEVER been so popular and profitable for the BBC as a whole.

I have no doubt some people are pissed that we have an older Doctor or are simply struggling to get warmed up to him but the show is far from crisis. Personally I want complex stories and enjoyed Moffat's arc for the most part and found the standalone episodes to be more mixed. While I did find last season to be a mix bag overall, I want Moffat to carry on to finish off the Galifrey storyline. The BBC wants some improvements then FIX the dam air time for 6:30pm-7pm every episode and not closer to 7:30 or 8pm

BBC don't ask fans especially casual younger ones what direction the show should go, I've seen the other drivel they pump out these days.

 

[Skywalker]

I always get a kick out of the argument that the show is dying and people aren't watching anymore when it's actually more popular now than it's ever been in its entire history.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I actually am interested in that.