DS9 on blu ray?

[USS KG5]

Maybe going forward they can eliminate the war stuff from DS9 and then it come to Blu-ray.

You might be better off just engineering yourself a flying pig!

Seriously though, if we were getting it in 2015 we would know by now, 2016 i still a remote possibility, but if they were doing it why shut down the team?

Maybe we should look at all the pros and cons so far: -

Pros
- TOS and TNG blu ray sales have apparently been OK.
- Future streaming revenue potentially will be stronger with HD of all trek.
- Ditto for repeats on the old style Telly.

Cons
- More complicated and expensive than TNG right out of the gate (Odo etc.) and obscenely so in the later series.
- Likely to sell a fair bit less than TNG on Blu.
- Already far less popular than TNG in re-runs.
- Clock is ticking for mainstream sales of physical media.

Doesn't look good does it?

 

[Computer Voice]

Maybe someone should start a letter writing campaign, similar to the campaign that saved TOS in the 60s. We could bombard CBS with physical letters and masses of e-mails.

 

[Wolfspaw]

Agree with DragonQ above. It's all very well having high-sounding morals, but that doesn't necessarily make for great TV, especially after several seasons of a show. DS9 took those morals and examined them from a new angle, and put them under a "stress test". Examining those morals, and how they play out when under pressure, does make for both great TV and great Trek.

I've been lurking in this thread for a long time... was hoping for a surprise new year announcement from CBS about DS9-R...

DS9 certainly explored morality and that I think was quintessentially what the war arc was about. Section 31 comes to mind and that was BEFORE 9-11-2001 and the questionable stuff the CIA has done. Sisko certainly faced his own moral quandaries in the later years.

None of what I wrote above is meant to be political.

Some writers for Star Trek have stated that Gene Roddenberry did not create enough conflict among the characters and conflict create drama.

If the latter seasons disturb you, then fair enough but to get back on topic......when is the blu-ray coming out?

 

[DS9forever]

- Clock is ticking for mainstream sales of physical media.

Wasn't there news recently that DVD and Blu-ray sales were good?

 

[DS9forever]

Not the article I was looking for, but it has the gist:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-murray-essay-20141221-story.html

 

[kkt]

Maybe someone should start a letter writing campaign, similar to the campaign that saved TOS in the 60s. We could bombard CBS with physical letters and masses of e-mails.

Physical letters, one per envelope. Emails are easy to fake and easy to ignore. Petitions only count as one piece.

 

[Dick_Valentine]

Physical letters are dying as a medium



Get a hashtag trending worldwide for a few weeks and it might get their attention.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Agree with DragonQ above. It's all very well having high-sounding morals, but that doesn't necessarily make for great TV, especially after several seasons of a show. DS9 took those morals and examined them from a new angle, and put them under a "stress test". Examining those morals, and how they play out when under pressure, does make for both great TV and great Trek.

Don't you mean, it makes great TV, and great Trek... TO YOU?

 

[STEPhon IT]

Some writers for Star Trek have stated that Gene Roddenberry did not create enough conflict among the characters and conflict create drama.

Only the writers who didn't understand what Star Trek was about and wanted to do something completely arbitrary to make a name for themselves. Like Killing Kirk, and making Star Buck a woman, or ranting like a little child because he couldn't jump on board Voyager and commit the same smearing he did on DS9.

All anyone had to do was watch the classic 79 episodes of Star Trek and you will know that THOSE writers who stated that about Roddenberry were full of shit.

But you are correct back on topic...

 

[USS KG5]

- Clock is ticking for mainstream sales of physical media.

Wasn't there news recently that DVD and Blu-ray sales were good?

I'm not sure, though I'd not disbelieve it, I think the timescale of the decline will be over the next decade. I am aware Blu has never reached the levels many hoped, and DVD sales have already plummeted from their early 2000s peak.

In the long run, for environmental and practical reasons, as well as the natural mass market preference for convenience, physical media is numbered. I believe we will be looking at it as a small minority in 10 years and totally extinct in 20, but YMMV.

 

[BillJ]

- Clock is ticking for mainstream sales of physical media.

Wasn't there news recently that DVD and Blu-ray sales were good?

I'm not sure, though I'd not disbelieve it, I think the timescale of the decline will be over the next decade. I am aware Blu has never reached the levels many hoped, and DVD sales have already plummeted from their early 2000s peak.

In the long run, for environmental and practical reasons, as well as the natural mass market preference for convenience, physical media is numbered. I believe we will be looking at it as a small minority in 10 years and totally extinct in 20, but YMMV.

I think those projections are generous here in the States. Until everyone has unlimited downloading with a strong signal, physical media will be with us. Heck, I have both and I still buy physical media.

 

[Wolfspaw]

Wasn't there news recently that DVD and Blu-ray sales were good?

I'm not sure, though I'd not disbelieve it, I think the timescale of the decline will be over the next decade. I am aware Blu has never reached the levels many hoped, and DVD sales have already plummeted from their early 2000s peak.

In the long run, for environmental and practical reasons, as well as the natural mass market preference for convenience, physical media is numbered. I believe we will be looking at it as a small minority in 10 years and totally extinct in 20, but YMMV.

I think those projections are generous here in the States. Until everyone has unlimited downloading with a strong signal, physical media will be with us. Heck, I have both and I still buy physical media.

I agree. I have very high speed internet and the download speeds I have had has occasionally been good but most often not and this doesn't even take into consideration that downloads are compressed even further and not as good as blu-ray. I have seen reviews of 4k downloads that have said that it doesn't look any better than regular HD.

There also needs to be taken into account that the speeds may be throttled by the either the download source or your ISP. And what if you want to actually own the Movie or TV season. If you buy from Apple or Amazon or Ultraviolet or whatever you are then stuck with that source only. If your only looking for a rental, are you guaranteed that the movie or TV show you want will be available to Netflix or Hulu or whatever your rental source that you're subscribed to.

Streaming seems like a simple theoretical idea but reality is much more complex.

Ironically, the sales of LP's surged last year up 52% from 2013 and this is from a format that was considered a dinosaur by 1999. I think Blu-Ray/DVD ownership is far from being dead or dying.

 

[DragonQ]

The only real benefit of LPs is that they are sometimes mastered better than CDs and digital audio releases. It's possible that BDs will have the same fate and continue as premium products even as downloads and streaming continue to assert their dominance. Really, we might have been incredibly lucky with the timing of the TNG BDs.

 

[Lance]

Maybe we should look at all the pros and cons so far: -

Pros
- TOS and TNG blu ray sales have apparently been OK.
- Future streaming revenue potentially will be stronger with HD of all trek.
- Ditto for repeats on the old style Telly.

Cons
- More complicated and expensive than TNG right out of the gate (Odo etc.) and obscenely so in the later series.
- Likely to sell a fair bit less than TNG on Blu.
- Already far less popular than TNG in re-runs.
- Clock is ticking for mainstream sales of physical media.

Doesn't look good does it?

Sense.

I don't agree with you about the physical media being on it's death legs stuff, but the rest of your list is pure sense. There are lots of reasons why DS9, and VOY for that matter, will be harder propositions than TNG, with the potential for a greater loss in the long run. Chief among them being that CGI was becoming mainstream and both shows use it more extensively even in the beginning (Odo's morphing, VOY's title sequence). And as both shows progress, you end up with even more CGI being used by the end. All of that would need to be completely redone from scratch. A much more expensive proposition than TNG, and with neither show being seen as having the 'cultural niche' that TOS and TNG inhabit.


I know people said TNG would never be done also, but the reality is that show was always an outside chance, whereas the cards are very much stacked against DS9 or VOYAGER ever reaching the blu ray format in true HD.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The only real benefit of LPs is that they are sometimes mastered better than CDs and digital audio releases.

Nope. In fact, most LPs pressed these days use the same masters as the CD or Bluray counterpart.

But that's not why they're better.

 

[Wolfspaw]

Maybe we should look at all the pros and cons so far: -

Pros
- TOS and TNG blu ray sales have apparently been OK.
- Future streaming revenue potentially will be stronger with HD of all trek.
- Ditto for repeats on the old style Telly.

Cons
- More complicated and expensive than TNG right out of the gate (Odo etc.) and obscenely so in the later series.
- Likely to sell a fair bit less than TNG on Blu.
- Already far less popular than TNG in re-runs.
- Clock is ticking for mainstream sales of physical media.

Doesn't look good does it?

Sense.

I don't agree with you about the physical media being on it's death legs stuff, but the rest of your list is pure sense. There are lots of reasons why DS9, and VOY for that matter, will be harder propositions than TNG, with the potential for a greater loss in the long run. Chief among them being that CGI was becoming mainstream and both shows use it more extensively even in the beginning (Odo's morphing, VOY's title sequence). And as both shows progress, you end up with even more CGI being used by the end. All of that would need to be completely redone from scratch. A much more expensive proposition than TNG, and with neither show being seen as having the 'cultural niche' that TOS and TNG inhabit.


I know people said TNG would never be done also, but the reality is that show was always an outside chance, whereas the cards are very much stacked against DS9 or VOYAGER ever reaching the blu ray format in true HD.

There continues to be this myth that the CGI is a hindrance. At least some of the computer files have been saved and a couple of HD clips are on Youtube. Bill Hunt of the Digital Bits website has stated that the CGI for DS9 has has been "cracked".

I would argue that if CBS wants to continue making money they need to do a remastering because Standard Definition Television is a hindrance to making more money no matter the format it is presented on.

 

[DragonQ]

The only real benefit of LPs is that they are sometimes mastered better than CDs and digital audio releases.

Nope. In fact, most LPs pressed these days use the same masters as the CD or Bluray counterpart.

Hence "sometimes".

 

[USS KG5]

I think those projections are generous here in the States. Until everyone has unlimited downloading with a strong signal, physical media will be with us. Heck, I have both and I still buy physical media.

You honestly think that will take more than 20 years? Look at where we were 20 years ago!

As I said MOST people will have no technical need for physical media within a decade, after all, some people still give Microsoft 10 quid for office disks but most don't.

I agree. I have very high speed internet and the download speeds I have had has occasionally been good but most often not and this doesn't even take into consideration that downloads are compressed even further and not as good as blu-ray. I have seen reviews of 4k downloads that have said that it doesn't look any better than regular HD.

Which to the mass market means less than nothing, most people claim to not be able to tell the difference between DVD and Blu, let alone the difference between the frankly very good quality of HD streams and Blu Ray. YMMV but the niche enthusiast market is not what keeps physical media going, its people buying DVDs with their shopping.

There also needs to be taken into account that the speeds may be throttled by the either the download source or your ISP....
<other relevant stuff>...
Streaming seems like a simple theoretical idea but reality is much more complex.

Streaming is very complex, so are Blu Ray players!

The technical problems will be solved, the Internet is the most important piece of technology in the world it will be unrecognisably quick in a decade compared to now, and in the UK BT are trialling 2gbps through Fibre to the cabinet, i.e. part copper cables!

Ironically, the sales of LP's surged last year up 52% from 2013 and this is from a format that was considered a dinosaur by 1999. I think Blu-Ray/DVD ownership is far from being dead or dying.

Well, actually, vinyl is very much a high priced niche product. Mass music consumption is either through downloads, streaming, illegal torrents or still CD sales. Vinyl is a great physical product, but it has a tangibility and appeal that DVD and Blu Ray don't touch.

I've been through this all up-thread as well, but on-topic there will be nowhere near the market for physical media in ten years to justify a Blu Ray remastering project for DS9. There MIGHT be a chance of doing it just to put it out for streaming, but as others have stated, it isnt a popular show.

Hopefully, I'm wrong!

 

[USS KG5]

There continues to be this myth that the CGI is a hindrance. At least some of the computer files have been saved and a couple of HD clips are on Youtube. Bill Hunt of the Digital Bits website has stated that the CGI for DS9 has has been "cracked".

It is another "con" - that's all - our insiders here have stated that DS9 has been assessed to be a much more technically complicated series to remaster and partly because there is so much CGI to recreate.

No-one knows if even a significant proportion of the files are saved, the resolution, nothing except that lovely screencap of an HD Nebula and some comments from one of the artists.
As I've said before I HOPE I'm wrong!

I would argue that if CBS wants to continue making money they need to do a remastering because Standard Definition Television is a hindrance to making more money no matter the format it is presented on.

Well thats the argument for doing TOS and TNG of course, but maybe they are happy with the two most popular shows, plus the most modern one (ENT) in HD, with the other two essentially for the trash?

I hope not, but they don't seem too interested in DS9 HD right now...

 

[Lance]

I would argue that if CBS wants to continue making money they need to do a remastering because Standard Definition Television is a hindrance to making more money no matter the format it is presented on.

See, *this* I do find a more compelling argument for redoing them. But at the end of the day it probably comes down to whether Paramount would see the overall revenue as being worth the investment. If they need to sink more money into it than they're likely to get out of it, chances are they'll say "thanks but no thanks".

I'd love to be proven wrong.