Roberto Orci Not Directing Trek XIII

[Amaris]

Yeah, seriously. What the hell would Dennis know about bona fides in television and movie production?


That's sarcasm, just in case you missed it.

 

[Harvey]

Orci lost his cool again (understandable considering he was systematically pushed off Trek 3) and let the fans get to him.

Hardly seems like a blow-up to me, unless there's a conversation I've missed. And "systematically pushed off?" Possible, of course, but unless you are privy to some insider knowledge that hasn't been made public, that's just idle speculation, no?

 

[BillJ]

Arrogance is a concept that is independent of success or acclaim. It can exist with or without those attributes. They do not justify it, but when it does exists because of them, it is still a failure of character.

Still seems like you're treating Orci like he's in some kind of vacuum and fans did nothing to stir the pot.

 

[Mudd]

Arrogance is a concept that is independent of success or acclaim. It can exist with or without those attributes. They do not justify it, but when it does exists because of them, it is still a failure of character.

Still seems like you're treating Orci like he's in some kind of vacuum and fans did nothing to stir the pot.

Exactly so.

This is one of the reasons that most people in movies and TV insulate themselves from the public - except, you know, the folks who need money badly enough to do lots of conventions and stuff.

 

[fireproof78]

The guy helped make Transformers 2, Cowboys and Aliens and Amazing Spider-Man 2.

This isn't something I would be bragging about.

He doesn't sound like the sharpest tool in the shed.

He also helped make two of the most successful and highly acclaimed films in the Trek franchise (ST and ID, for anyone not following.) Looks like we're even then?

Well, there are several possibilities here.

1. He overcame adversity and cranked out two successful movies in an otherwise dismal portfolio.

2. Successful Trek movies aren't really that big an accomplishment.

3. His other movies are unsung, unappreciated works of art.

You, the viewer, decide.

Yeah, it's hysterical that trekkies can be so myopic about all this. No one has a career like Orci's by accident, luck (rhough occasional lucky breaks are part of most folks' success stories), "sucking up" or other envious nonsense.

Bull. Doesn't hold water. There are tons of people who have been working in Hollywood for 15 years, but that doesn't mean squat about the quality of their product. Sorry, you're just wrong on this one.

I, as one of the viewers, have found some of Orci's work to be underappreciated. Regardless, I do not see a reason to be critical of a man, even if I don't like his work. The two are separate things.

Secondly, and I can't speak for Dennis, but I think the point to his statement is that Orci has made a successful career of delievering a product that studios are happy with, otherwise he would not have a 15 year long career. Regardless of personal views of his work, he is still getting work. That doesn't happen because Hollywood studios have nothing better to do with their money but hire the man. Orci has worked on some higher profile projects, so someone must like him.

 

[Mudd]

Bull. Doesn't hold water. There are tons of people who have been working in Hollywood for 15 years, but that doesn't mean squat about the quality of their product. Sorry, you're just wrong on this one.

No, I'm right and tough-talking doesn't change that. "Quality" is a matter of your opinion. Performance that supports the success of projects is measurable. People will keep hiring Orci because he delivers what they want.

This is why he makes movies and his detractors bitch in the web.

 

[JWPlatt]

A lot of people don't want to make movies, nor do they want to become chefs or politicians. They do something else, but know what they like in those other things. They bitch about what they don't enjoy, including bad movies, bad food, and bad policy decisions - or praise good movies, people, food, and policy. I don't subscribe to the idea that you have to become a director (or producer, or chef or politician) to be a critic of those things.

 

[urbandefault]

I haven't read any of the stuff in question, but it sounds like he's taken a ton of abuse, deserved or not, and let most of it roll off his back. The thing is, Orci doesn't have to interact with fans on social media. He's actually doing them a favor, whether anyone else thinks so or not.

If I was Orci I'd just stay away and leave the fans to bitch among themselves. And they will.

 

[BillJ]

A lot of people don't want to make movies, nor do they want to become chefs or politicians. They do something else, but know what they like in those other things. They bitch about what they don't enjoy, including bad movies, bad food, and bad policy decisions - or praise good movies, people, food, and policy. I don't subscribe to the idea that you have to become a director (or producer, or chef or politician) to be a critic of those things.

Being critical of the work and being insulting towards the people making it are two distinct things. The only time I have an issue with people being critical of the work is when the criticism includes "Star Trek never did...", which is always proven wrong.

Like it or not, Star Trek is an entertainment property not a religion. Its job is to entertain as many people as it possibly can. Which is done by driving viewership or selling tickets. The Abrams movies seem to be accomplishing this goal to a degree.

When it quits entertaining me, I'll walk away. I've done it before.

 

[fireproof78]

I haven't read any of the stuff in question, but it sounds like he's taken a ton of abuse, deserved or not, and let most of it roll off his back. The thing is, Orci doesn't have to interact with fans on social media. He's actually doing them a favor, whether anyone else thinks so or not.

If I was Orci I'd just stay away and leave the fans to bitch among themselves. And they will.

I am torn between wanting to hear from content creators (producers, directors, bloggers, podcasters, etc.) and wanting them to stay out of the fray.

The fact of the matter is, they are people in the public eye, who's every move will be scrutinized, interpreted, maligned, reposted and twisted.

Regardless, there is a trend to take a dislike of a work of art and applying it to the person who makes it. Orci and Abrams have taken a lot of flak for their Trek films, and they have had only a handful of responses.

A lot of people don't want to make movies, nor do they want to become chefs or politicians. They do something else, but know what they like in those other things. They bitch about what they don't enjoy, including bad movies, bad food, and bad policy decisions - or praise good movies, people, food, and policy. I don't subscribe to the idea that you have to become a director (or producer, or chef or politician) to be a critic of those things.

Being critical of the work and being insulting towards the people making it are two distinct things. The only time I have an issue with people being critical of the work is when the criticism includes "Star Trek never did...", which is always proven wrong.

Like it or not, Star Trek is an entertainment property not a religion. Its job is to entertain as many people as it possibly can. Which is done by driving viewership or selling tickets. The Abrams movies seem to be accomplishing this goal to a degree.

When it quits entertaining me, I'll walk away. I've done it before.

Well said

 

[JarodRussell]

The entire discussion will be rendered moot if the next one to reboot actually reboots it in a way that the folks (who currently dislike the Orci-Trek) like. Orci makes it look like what he did was the only way to do it, especially with phrases like "it was my decision to do that, and that's the reason why I make movies and you don't". And apparently, whatever he wanted to do as a director of the third movie wasn't well-received at the studio. So there.

 

[BillJ]

The entire discussion will be rendered moot if the next one to reboot actually reboots it in a way that the folks (who currently dislike the Orci-Trek) like.

Unless they go back to the Prime timeline and the Berman style of storytelling, I have a feeling a huge portion of those folks won't be happy. Regardless of whose running the show.

Some people need something/one to hate.

 

[JarodRussell]

The entire discussion will be rendered moot if the next one to reboot actually reboots it in a way that the folks (who currently dislike the Orci-Trek) like.

Unless they go back to the Prime timeline and the Berman style of storytelling, I have a feeling a huge portion of those folks won't be happy. Regardless of whose running the show.

Some people need something/one to hate.

Indeed, I'd like a return to the Prime timeline because I like continuity. But I don't need the Berman style (whatever you mean by that exactly). I'd have been happy with a TNG movie in the Abrams style actually (at least the visuals and pace, a smarter story would be nice).

I'm pretty sure that the fundamentalists that just hate everything for the sake of it are extremely low in number.

 

[BigJake]

Arrogance is a concept that is independent of success or acclaim. It can exist with or without those attributes. They do not justify it, but when it does exists because of them, it is still a failure of character.

Still seems like you're treating Orci like he's in some kind of vacuum and fans did nothing to stir the pot.

Maybe Orci's a volcano and fans have been spitting into the eye of the hurricane? Let's see if we can get a few more metaphors in there.

Seriously, though, remember the time when Jonathan Frakes lost it at an obnoxious fan for not liking TNG enough? No, you don't, because he was both smarter and classier than that. Make all the excuses you please for it, Orci's "I make movies and you don't" schtick is stupid and unprofessional and basically illustrates that he's not equipped to interact with fans; "a few Internet fanboys don't like my enormously profitable movies" is absolutely the most First World of problems it is possible to have, full stop. That he's doing it with the kind of fans you also happen to be prone to beefing with doesn't make it better.

I'm pretty sure that the fundamentalists that just hate everything for the sake of it are extremely low in number.

The largest congregation of them I've seen anywhere online would amount to less than 3% of TrekBBS' total membership.

 

[HaplessCrewman]

Orci lost his cool again (understandable considering he was systematically pushed off Trek 3) and let the fans get to him.

Hardly seems like a blow-up to me, unless there's a conversation I've missed. And "systematically pushed off?" Possible, of course, but unless you are privy to some insider knowledge that hasn't been made public, that's just idle speculation, no?

Orci was set to direct and is now no longer the director. He was writing it (along with Patrick McKay & John D. Payne) and is now no longer writing Trek 3.

He has retained the role of producer but does not know if Trek 3 is going to be a good movie.

from http://www.slashfilm.com/roberto-orci-star-trek-3-script/

Later someone asked, since he left, “is there any hope for a good Trek movie?” Orci replied, “I won’t lie, I don’t know yet, but the story we are talking about would be awesome, hang in there!”

Being a life-long fan of Trek and getting so close to taking full control of it, I can't imagine how Orci must feel being ostracized like this. I'm sure he will have continued success in other things but this show obviously meant much to him.

Nice to see him putting a brave face on it! Hang in there!

 

[Sindatur]

Orci lost his cool again (understandable considering he was systematically pushed off Trek 3) and let the fans get to him.

Hardly seems like a blow-up to me, unless there's a conversation I've missed. And "systematically pushed off?" Possible, of course, but unless you are privy to some insider knowledge that hasn't been made public, that's just idle speculation, no?

Orci was set to direct and is now no longer the director. He was writing it (along with Patrick McKay & John D. Payne) and is now no longer writing Trek 3.

He has retained the role of producer but does not know if Trek 3 is going to be a good movie.

from http://www.slashfilm.com/roberto-orci-star-trek-3-script/

Later someone asked, since he left, “is there any hope for a good Trek movie?” Orci replied, “I won’t lie, I don’t know yet, but the story we are talking about would be awesome, hang in there!”

Being a life-long fan of Trek and getting so close to taking full control of it, I can't imagine how Orci must feel being ostracized like this. I'm sure he will have continued success in other things but this show obviously meant much to him.

Nice to see him putting a brave face on it! Hang in there!

After his post was mistaken to say he has nothing to do with the movie aside from Producing it, he posted that the story was done by him and his co-writers, so, the reason he isn't writing anymore, is because his draft is done (IE: Ready to be used or punched up)

 

[F. King Daniel]

^Where is that follow-up? I can't seem to find it. In any case "I won't lie, I don't know yet" is hardly the stuff to build confidence. I guess one has to admire the honesty, in such a hyperbole-fuelled buisness.

 

[HaplessCrewman]

^Where is that follow-up? I can't seem to find it. In any case "I won't lie, I don't know yet" is hardly the stuff to build confidence. I guess one has to admire the honesty, in such a hyperbole-fuelled buisness.

Can you imagine Marvel's Kevin Feige saying he "doesn't know" if a Marvel movie would be good? As Orci is the producer, why would he not rally around the film? Kind of an odd (telling?) thing to say about his knowledge/role in the film. Perhaps his producer credit is akin to Gene's old 'executive consultant' title.

 

[Sindatur]

^Where is that follow-up? I can't seem to find it. In any case "I won't lie, I don't know yet" is hardly the stuff to build confidence. I guess one has to admire the honesty, in such a hyperbole-fuelled buisness.

M'Sharak posted it recently. Something to the effect of:

Q: Who wrote the story
A: Me and P&M (Or whatever his co-writers initials are)

I suspect there's a context issue with "I don't know yet if the film has any chance of being good", it really makes no sense for a Producer to make that statement, in the way it's being presented, and if he really does mean it the way it appears, maybe he should be completely removed as far as possible.

 

[fireproof78]

^Where is that follow-up? I can't seem to find it. In any case "I won't lie, I don't know yet" is hardly the stuff to build confidence. I guess one has to admire the honesty, in such a hyperbole-fuelled buisness.

Can you imagine Marvel's Kevin Feige saying he "doesn't know" if a Marvel movie would be good? As Orci is the producer, why would he not rally around the film? Kind of an odd (telling?) thing to say about his knowledge/role in the film. Perhaps his producer credit is akin to Gene's old 'executive consultant' title.

Legal disclaimer I have no information concerning this claim or speculation. This is just my theory.

Orci is playing it tight to the vest because the fan base is so easily riled up by anything he says, either positive or negative. To be perfectly honest, it would likely be the safest move on his part until Lin comes in and gives his direction as to where the film will be going.