A Loose End from Star Trek III..?

[CoveTom]

In "Amok Time," Spock's family and T'Pau were influential enough that they got Starfleet to approve diverting the Enterprise away from a major diplomatic mission to attend to what was, in essence, a personal family matter.

Yet in TSFS, Sarek -- a highly respected and influential Federation ambassador -- along with T'Lar couldn't exercise enough pull to get Spock's body transported from Genesis to Vulcan? The only solution was for Kirk to "go rogue" to make it happen?

Something seems fishy there.

 

[C.E. Evans]

It's also the line of a father wanting to save his son.

Without doubt! I just think he should have done something more than stand on the sideline and await the outcome if that's his admittedly emotional response.

Sarek is still a Vulcan, however. Admitting to T'Lar that what he was asking her to do wasn't logical was an emotional response as far as they're concerned.

At least if the audience is to empathize with him.

I do believe they did. You really don't even have to understand what Vulcans are like to understand a father's wish to have his son back.

In "Amok Time," Spock's family and T'Pau were influential enough that they got Starfleet to approve diverting the Enterprise away from a major diplomatic mission to attend to what was, in essence, a personal family matter.

Yet in TSFS, Sarek -- a highly respected and influential Federation ambassador -- along with T'Lar couldn't exercise enough pull to get Spock's body transported from Genesis to Vulcan? The only solution was for Kirk to "go rogue" to make it happen?

Something seems fishy there.

Project Genesis. As "the Genesis commander," Kirk likely had more pull than Sarek in regards to it (or at least Sarek hoped he did, IMO).

 

[T'Girl]

Was Kirstie Alley even much of a "star" at that point? What justifies a bloated salary, if not?.

In TWOK, Alley was paid basically as an extra, which made sense from a career point of view for her, it was a chance to be in a major motion picture in a prominent role.

After TWOK Alley's acting star began to rise, when TSFS came around, Alley was offered hardly more than she received for TWOK, Alley and her agent figured (correctly) that she had been a major player in TWOK, and she wanted sixth billing in the credits (right after Kelley) and the salary that went with that. Give how much she did on TWOK what she was asking for wasn't "bloated."

Between TWOK and TSFS Kristie Alley appeared in three movies, a 13 episode spy series and she did a (failed) TV pilot. The movie Blind Date really showed off her acting abilities.

 

[Gassy Man]

She should thank her agent for not getting her the role in Star Trek III. Aside from it being a pedestrian movie, once Nimoy decided to return to the franchise, the shelf life of any other Vulcan character would be short lived. Her career went much further from Cheers than it ever would have from Star Trek.

 

[T'Girl]

Robin Curtis was told to deliver her lines very cold and unemotional, if Alley had returned she likely would have continued her previous depiction of Saavik. This would have changed the tone of the movie, at least as far as the Saavik's scenes were concerned.

The pon farr scene would have been a lot hotter.

.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Alley in III would’ve made it feel like a true continuation of II. She mustve done Runaway instead of ST III. picture Alley in Trek III and the movie gets better - all the stuff on Grissom, then with young Spock, the chemistry with David, his death scene wouldve been even more powerful, telling Kirk his son is dead. the scene of Savvik and Kirk on genesis, and that glance between Spock and Savvik at the end. (like the Savvik in III shed have probably had her hair all long/permed like in Runaway)
http://cineplex.media.baselineresearch.com/images/261767/261767_large.jpg

if Alley had done III she wouldve had a cameo in IV (or maybe shed have been part of the crew?) and the Valrius role in VI (as it was originally intended to be savvik - Meyer wanted Alley back but she declined, and Robin Curtis wasnt considered. So it went to Kim Cattrell who had been the original choice for savvik in Trek II) it wouldve made alot of sense since Savvik wouldve watched Klingons kill the man she had some kind of emotional bond with (imagine sitting there in the cinema xmas 91 watching Kirk and Spock interacting with Savvik knowing Meyer is calling the shots like its 82 all over again! itd have been like Wrath of Khan part 2! plus the shock of her being behind it would’ve been such a huge deal)

but since things happened the way they did and Alley didnt return, maybe they shouldve just cast R Curtis as Savvik in VI instead of creating a new character (wouldve been cool had Alley done it - tying in with TWOK and all, but seems abit harsh not wanting Curtis there since she had taken over and since VI was bookending the Genesis 'trilogy' and it was her version of Savvik that witnessed Davids death at the hands of the klingons which would’ve been the ideal reason for savvik turning traitor - anyway audiences would’ve been abit like 'eh WTF? Alleys back as Savvik?')

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I guess it really wasn't much of a testament to her, but I remember noticing above all else in III that the Vulcan ears on Robin Curtis looked flawless.

Maybe they should've done away with Saavik altogether at that point, instead having Genesis explored by David and perhaps Chekov, who was after all a science officer at that point. Obviously the Ponn Farr angle would have to go, but seeing as how it contributed little to the plot anyway, oh well.

 

[T'Girl]

if Alley had done III she wouldve had a cameo in IV (or maybe she'd have been part of the crew?)

It would be easier to see Alley's Saavik traveling through time aboard the BOP with the older officers, than to have the Curtis version doing the same.

Given the production dates of TSFS and Runaway, Alley might have been able to do both.

 

[Shazam!]

Maybe they should've done away with Saavik altogether at that point

Yep. The first time you see Saavik is on the Grissom, so it literally could have been anyone.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Yep. The first time you see Saavik is on the Grissom, so it literally could have been anyone.

Right. That's why I figured Chekov would have been a good choice. He was established as the science officer of the Reliant, so let the darned guy do the job he's earned. Not to mention you'd be giving Walter Koenig much more to do in the story. He's more than capable, he's a regular in the cast, and they seemed to have a hard enough time giving those guys something to do. Why shoe-horn a new character in the mix? Besides, he kinda got shafted in the story. Even on the Enterprise, he's sitting way across the bridge in that silly pink outfit. Granted, Uhura didn't get much, either, but at least it was memorable. What line of Chekov's stands out? "For an instant, a scout-class-wessel"?

 

[Commishsleer]

She should thank her agent for not getting her the role in Star Trek III. Aside from it being a pedestrian movie, once Nimoy decided to return to the franchise, the shelf life of any other Vulcan character would be short lived. Her career went much further from Cheers than it ever would have from Star Trek.

I've heard the rumour that Nimoy changed Saavik to be more Vulcan so that he could remain the 'ultimate' Vulcan. Is this just guessing or has there been an interview or something more concrete?

 

[Khan 2.0]

Chekov had a big role in II (plus it'd have been repeating that aspect of being on another ship as a science officer who gets marooned with another)... besides, 2 guys alone on genesis with baby Spock would've been abit weird. better to go with savvik as a potential love interest (expanding from II)

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Chekov had a big role in II (plus it'd have been repeating that aspect of being on another ship as a science officer who gets marooned with another)

That's true...but it would tie in nicely with the kind of luck that Chekov always seemed to have.

2 guys alone on genesis with baby Spock would've been abit weird. better to go with savvik as a potential love interest (expanding from II)

Maybe Nimoy brought that idea over to Three Men and a Baby?

 

[T'Girl]

When Sarek showed up at the council in ST IV, to 'speak on behalf of the accused', he was told that the council's deliberations were over. Where was Sarek up until the time he showed up?

Sarek wasn't a part of the council's deliberations because he wasn't a council member, he's an ambassador.

Perhaps the deliberations were "closed doored."

That's why I figured Chekov would have been a good choice. He was established as the science officer of the Reliant ...

Chekov was the first officer.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Chekov was the first officer.

Yeah, I mis-typed. I was probably thinking of all the training Chekov was getting back on the Enterprise in the old days.

 

[Melakon]

The real loss was not getting Kim Cattrall as the original Saavik. Then Meyer's plan for a fall from grace for the character in TUC would have had more impact. But Porky's came out the same year as TWOK, and probably did more for her career than Star Trek would have then.

 

[Gassy Man]

She should thank her agent for not getting her the role in Star Trek III. Aside from it being a pedestrian movie, once Nimoy decided to return to the franchise, the shelf life of any other Vulcan character would be short lived. Her career went much further from Cheers than it ever would have from Star Trek.

I've heard the rumour that Nimoy changed Saavik to be more Vulcan so that he could remain the 'ultimate' Vulcan. Is this just guessing or has there been an interview or something more concrete?

I wouldn't doubt that. Though Nimoy has come through as something of a wise man on the mountain when it comes to Star Trek, I grew up seeing him in various TV and film productions in the 70s and 80s . . . Mission: Impossible!, Marco Polo, Catlow, and so on. He's for the most part a terrible actor outside of Star Trek, with Spock being the only role that he played with genuine expertise. He seemed to have a pretty big ego, too, until he finally resigned himself to the notion that Spock really was the character he could play. A friend saw him at a convention in the 70s, for instance, and couldn't believe how full of himself and his crappy poetry he was, getting offended when fans dared to actually ask him about Star Trek.

But I'm glad that Alley didn't return to play Saavik. The multi-layered script for Star Trek II made it seem like the junior characters would have some future in the franchise; the hack job that was the script for Star Trek III basically tossed them out the door. At least with the plain and wooden Robin Curtis, the shabby treatment didn't seem to matter since she was so awful in the role. And I'd prefer to remember Saavik as a good character -- Meyer got his "surprise, surprise" with Admiral Cartwright, another character that was terribly misused.

 

[Maxillius]

Alley in III would’ve made it feel like a true continuation of II. She mustve done Runaway instead of ST III. picture Alley in Trek III and the movie gets better - all the stuff on Grissom, then with young Spock, the chemistry with David, his death scene wouldve been even more powerful, telling Kirk his son is dead. the scene of Savvik and Kirk on genesis, and that glance between Spock and Savvik at the end. (like the Savvik in III shed have probably had her hair all long/permed like in Runaway)
http://cineplex.media.baselineresearch.com/images/261767/261767_large.jpg

if Alley had done III she wouldve had a cameo in IV (or maybe shed have been part of the crew?) and the Valrius role in VI (as it was originally intended to be savvik - Meyer wanted Alley back but she declined, and Robin Curtis wasnt considered. So it went to Kim Cattrell who had been the original choice for savvik in Trek II) it wouldve made alot of sense since Savvik wouldve watched Klingons kill the man she had some kind of emotional bond with (imagine sitting there in the cinema xmas 91 watching Kirk and Spock interacting with Savvik knowing Meyer is calling the shots like its 82 all over again! itd have been like Wrath of Khan part 2! plus the shock of her being behind it would’ve been such a huge deal)

but since things happened the way they did and Alley didnt return, maybe they shouldve just cast R Curtis as Savvik in VI instead of creating a new character (wouldve been cool had Alley done it - tying in with TWOK and all, but seems abit harsh not wanting Curtis there since she had taken over and since VI was bookending the Genesis 'trilogy' and it was her version of Savvik that witnessed Davids death at the hands of the klingons which would’ve been the ideal reason for savvik turning traitor - anyway audiences would’ve been abit like 'eh WTF? Alleys back as Savvik?')

I wonder if it's possible to CGI an actor into a movie. Say, someone who you think would've made the role, someone who would've made the entire production better as you think Kirstie Alley would've done (and I agree).

I wonder how much work it would be to make a CGI model of 1984 Kirstie Alley, get her to read the lines, then re-release the TSFS with Kirstie Alley in the role as was intended. Would Robin Curtis be offended? Would Kirstie Allie still demand top dollar? I'd think she'd be up for any income at this point in her career TBH. Just a thought.

 

[urbandefault]

I don't think Kirstie Alley is the "missing talent" that would have improved TSFS. Sure, she was good in TWOK, but it's not a foregone conclusion that her performance would have been any better than Robin Curtis'.

Trying to change history doesn't usually work out well, at least not in Star Trek.

 

[Khan 2.0]

IDW should do a 6 issue mini series explaining how Savvik went from looking like Alley to Curtis.