A Loose End from Star Trek III..?

[eyeresist]

^ We do not discuss it with outsiders!

The pon farr scene would have been a lot hotter.

Oh yeah! It would also have been great to have Alley/Saavik grow as a continuous character through II, III and VI.

Someone go back in time and change this thing!

 

[Melakon]

IDW should do a 6 issue mini series explaining how Savvik went from looking like Alley to Curtis.

McCoy's diet pills.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I've heard the rumour that Nimoy changed Saavik to be more Vulcan so that he could remain the 'ultimate' Vulcan. Is this just guessing or has there been an interview or something more concrete?

Lenny's too much of a Gentleman to have ever made such a statement openly, particularly to the press. My guess is that he felt that Nick didn't "get" STAR TREK, especially Vulcans. Meyer comes up with his first Vulcan and right out of the box, what does he do with her? Makes her Human. I'm sure Nimoy was concerned about that, but STAR TREK II wasn't his movie to direct. In STAR TREK III, he presented Saavik in what he felt was the "right" way and that's all that was behind it.

Saavik was just a supporting character to him, no more, or less important than Mr. Adventure was. He could drop her off on Vulcan and forget about her, or drag her onboard ENTERPRISE-A, to find stuff to do in a moment. It was all the same to him. Her value resided mainly as the vessel to feed and water Spock's seed, in a potential future story. Outside of that, Lenny was not insecure about how Spock was perceived, in relation to Saavik. He certainly knows where he stands with the fans and with the franchise.

 

[Melakon]

I didn't really find Alley's acting all that great as Saavik. She had an interesting face, and voluptuous figure, but that's about it.

 

[Trek Survivor]

I wonder how much work it would be to make a CGI model of 1984 Kirstie Alley, get her to read the lines, then re-release the TSFS with Kirstie Alley in the role as was intended. Would Robin Curtis be offended? Would Kirstie Allie still demand top dollar? I'd think she'd be up for any income at this point in her career TBH. Just a thought.

I am sure Curtis would be offended, and rightly so.

Am I the only person who thought she did fine?

 

[CoveTom]

I am sure Curtis would be offended, and rightly so.

Am I the only person who thought she did fine?

I think Robin Curtis is a decent actress, and she gave the performance she was directed to give. I find no fault with her acting abilities or her performance. (I also thought she was particularly effective in TNG as Tallera.)

My problem is with Leonard Nimoy's direction. In TWOK, a conscious choice was made to have Kirstie Alley play the character with more emotion than a typical Vulcan because she was supposed to be playing a half-Vulcan/half-Romulan. Dialogue indicating such was, in fact, filmed but cut.

When you get to TSFS, Nimoy directed Curtis to play Saavik as a full Vulcan, without any of the hints of emotion Alley injected into Saavik. But that wasn't the character that had been established in TWOK! If Nimoy wanted a full, emotionless Vulcan, then he should have had a different character. The way he directed Curtis to play Saavik was completely out of character from what had been established in TWOK, and made no sense.

-That- is what I have a problem with.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I think Robin Curtis is a decent actress, and she gave the performance she was directed to give. I find no fault with her acting abilities or her performance. (I also thought she was particularly effective in TNG as Tallera.)

Interesting that you should say that, CoveTom: I was thinking that Robin Curtis played her Saavik like a Next Generation Vulcan, before there was a next generation.

I think if Robin Curtis had played Saavik in ST II as well, she'd have been accepted as the actress who played Saavik, no questions asked.

I could be mistaken, but it seems to me that what's going on is a bit of reverse-typecasting. Instead of seeing an (in this case) actress as a particular character, many are seeing the character as a particular actress. Arnold Schwarzennegger would be similar, in that he's not seen as the characters he plays, but as himself. I'm not sure if I'm saying this clearly, but to many, the "character" is Kirstie Saavik.

Does that make any sense?

 

[Memory Alpha]

I had no real issue with Robin Curtis, to be honest. She was excellent in "Gambit" and she was in a couple episodes of MacGyver. They actually brought her back in that series. I thought she did fine in TSFS, but she is so different from Kirstie that it could be jarring. The tone of TSFS is so different from TWOK, I think, that a new, lesser known Saavik fit TSFS well, which is gritty and kind of a downer. That said, I did not know that Alley had been effectively underpaid in TWOK, so that's interesting.

 

[arch101]

I had no real issue with Robin Curtis, to be honest. She was excellent in "Gambit" and she was in a couple episodes of MacGyver. They actually brought her back in that series. I thought she did fine in TSFS, but she is so different from Kirstie that it could be jarring. The tone of TSFS is so different from TWOK, I think, that a new, lesser known Saavik fit TSFS well, which is gritty and kind of a downer. That said, I did not know that Alley had been effectively underpaid in TWOK, so that's interesting.

Don't forget her turn as a troubled agent who helps McCall out with a sophisticated surveilance op on The Equalizer. Boy, did she ever look stunning on that one.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Don't forget her turn as a troubled agent who helps McCall out with a sophisticated surveilance op on The Equalizer. Boy, did she ever look stunning on that one.

And I was a big Equalizer fan...yet i don't recall seeing her in that!

 

[Joel_Kirk]

It's easy to look at Sarek a bit negatively.

When we see him for the first time since Journey to Babel, he's cold, negative and ripping Kirk a new one.

In IV, there's this big thing about his rejection of Spock's career. In V, he's shown in one scene---rejecting Spock. And in VI, he's just kinda there. Then in TNG, he's an old geezer with dementia, treating everyone like shit.

So yeah, he's not really ever seen in a positive light except maybe at the end of III.

Well, Sarek and Spock did come together towards the end of Star Trek IV as well.

Robin Curtis was told to deliver her lines very cold and unemotional, if Alley had returned she likely would have continued her previous depiction of Saavik. This would have changed the tone of the movie, at least as far as the Saavik's scenes were concerned.

The pon farr scene would have been a lot hotter.

IDW should do a 6 issue mini series explaining how Savvik went from looking like Alley to Curtis.

I'm sure Nero had something to do with it during his 20 year wait for Spock. He wanted to take young Spock as well as Alley/Saavik, but he was attacked by Klingons.

By the time he was 'back on course' Alley/Saavik turned into Curtis/Saavik...and Nero was even crazier, wanting to destroy Vulcan but found out that power was too low. Hence, mining for several years and surviving until he can finally get....older Nimoy Spock.

 

[eyeresist]

I didn't really find Alley's acting all that great as Saavik. She had an interesting face, and voluptuous figure, but that's about it.

That's enough for me! Seriously, for a successful screen actor, an interesting face is at least 50% of the deal. A face that looks like something is going on behind it, in terms of thoughts and feelings, even when at rest. It's what made Kirk, Spock and McCoy succeed as characters, after all, that the actors themselves were interesting to watch.

 

[Gassy Man]

Don't forget her turn as a troubled agent who helps McCall out with a sophisticated surveilance op on The Equalizer. Boy, did she ever look stunning on that one.

And I was a big Equalizer fan...yet i don't recall seeing her in that!

The episode is Dead Drop.

 

[CoveTom]

Well, Sarek and Spock did come together towards the end of Star Trek IV as well.

Indeed they did. Which I thought was the perfect conclusion to the Spock/Sarek character arc. And it's one of the reasons I get so ticked off at the Sarek episodes of TNG, which just went and tossed that all out the window to have them at odds again.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Don't forget her turn as a troubled agent who helps McCall out with a sophisticated surveilance op on The Equalizer. Boy, did she ever look stunning on that one.

And I was a big Equalizer fan...yet i don't recall seeing her in that!

The episode is Dead Drop.

Thanks, Gassy Man!

 

[Gassy Man]

And I was a big Equalizer fan...yet i don't recall seeing her in that!

The episode is Dead Drop.

Thanks, Gassy Man!

Sure. I am a big fan of the first two seasons of The Equalizer.

 

[Memory Alpha]

I never watched much of The Equalizer, but thanks for the recommendation, arch101!

As to Sarek and Spock, I'm not sure that they came together as much as Sarek, for at least a moment, tolerated Spock's choices, career, etc. Clearly, though, Spock's decision to go to Romulus as part of some underground movement at the very least pushed Sarek away yet again, and based on what Sarek says in "Unification" (I mean, he was borderline abusive), I imagine that it did not take long for things to turn icy again.

I don't follow the Trek lit scene, but I think something fresh that focuses on that relationship would be interesting. Sarek, impossible to please, tirades him and marginalizes him with arrogant speeches and "you better play it safe!" and all his biases, and Spock shuts him down and bursts his bubble with one quick retort or observation. Would be really good.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I had no real issue with Robin Curtis, to be honest. She was excellent in "Gambit" and she was in a couple episodes of MacGyver. They actually brought her back in that series. I thought she did fine in TSFS,

Don't forget her turn as a troubled agent who helps McCall out with a sophisticated surveilance op on The Equalizer. Boy, did she ever look stunning on that one.

Robin Curtis got more and more beautiful as the years went on. She's also a fine actor, and her fairly flat delivery in TSFS is pretty much Nimoy's doing. However, I never had a problem with her as Saavik. She had a great look.

 

[Ithekro]

The general impression on Spock and Sarek's relationship is that it changed after Amanda died. Slowly at first. Both Spock and Sarek were ambassadors for the Federation by then and I guess they started stepping on each other's shoes over the subject of the Cardassians. Also possibly over the Romulans before that race went into isolation (did Spock maintain contact, or were the borders sealed?).

But it seems that Spock was against Sarek on the issue of Cardassia. We don't have details though. Then of course there was the matter of Sarek getting married to another human woman and Spock also getting married at some point (to an unknown person, though suspected at being Saavik in the novels). The family strain and, if I may say, emotions, just got the better of them without Amanda there to contain her husband and son.

 

[dub]

I think Robin Curtis is a decent actress, and she gave the performance she was directed to give. I find no fault with her acting abilities or her performance. (I also thought she was particularly effective in TNG as Tallera.)

My problem is with Leonard Nimoy's direction. In TWOK, a conscious choice was made to have Kirstie Alley play the character with more emotion than a typical Vulcan because she was supposed to be playing a half-Vulcan/half-Romulan. Dialogue indicating such was, in fact, filmed but cut.

When you get to TSFS, Nimoy directed Curtis to play Saavik as a full Vulcan, without any of the hints of emotion Alley injected into Saavik. But that wasn't the character that had been established in TWOK! If Nimoy wanted a full, emotionless Vulcan, then he should have had a different character. The way he directed Curtis to play Saavik was completely out of character from what had been established in TWOK, and made no sense.

-That- is what I have a problem with.

I agree with all of that. I'm over it now, but I still agree.