What I liked the least about the antennae on ENT was their placement. It had been established on TOS that the antennae were back near the crown of the head, yet on ENT, to make them move properly, they were positioned at the forehead. They should have been willing to sacrifice some movement to get the same look for the species. Either that or establish that some Andorians have them at the forehead, while some have them farther back on the head. Which makes more sense than the white Andorians do. Not all species differentiate populations by color.
TNG changes to TOS
- Thread starter allstar77
- Start date
We first saw Andorians with antennae on the forehead in TMP (much thinner and pointier than the usual design), then again in TVH. The various comics and RPGs have put the antennae all over the place. Here's Therin's comprehensive listing:
http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/2000/01/tos-rogues-gallery.html
http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/2000/01/tos-rogues-gallery.html
What episode had an image of an Andorian? I don't remember that at all!
I thought that was intentional to avoid the "Uncle Martin" look.
My understanding is that there were no legal issues regarding the Andorians; Rick Berman simply thought they were silly-looking so he was reluctant to use them, merely as a matter of personal taste. Nothing more complicated than that . . . .
By the Enterprise rolled around, I guess somebody managed to change his mind. Or maybe they just wore him down:
"No, seriously, it will look cool. Trust me."
"Well, okay. What the heck. Let's do Andorians . . . ."
By the Enterprise rolled around, I guess somebody managed to change his mind. Or maybe they just wore him down:
"No, seriously, it will look cool. Trust me."
"Well, okay. What the heck. Let's do Andorians . . . ."
It was in "The Offspring," when Lal was looking at different possible appearances in the holodeck.
There's also an Andorian tourist in the background on Risa in "Captain's Holiday." Follow my link above to Therin's site, click through to the TNG page, and you'll see screencaps of both Andorians.
The thing that perhaps makes Andorians "silly looking," their resemblance to stereotypical "Martians" with antennae, is precisely the thing that I think is cool about them. It's an iconic trope.
Ah, that's right. I never liked the look of the Andorian in The Offspring, but it was better than some of the aliens we got.
The thing that perhaps makes Andorians "silly looking," their resemblance to stereotypical "Martians" with antennae, is precisely the thing that I think is cool about them. It's an iconic trope.
I'm inclined to agree, but that's a judgment call. I can certainly see how reasonable people could see aliens with antennae as old-fashioned, corny, and potentially laughable.
One person's archetype is another person's stereotype. And there's sometimes a fine line between "iconic" and "cliche."
The thing that perhaps makes Andorians "silly looking," their resemblance to stereotypical "Martians" with antennae, is precisely the thing that I think is cool about them. It's an iconic trope.
I'm inclined to agree, but that's a judgment call. I can certainly see how reasonable people could see aliens with antennae as old-fashioned, corny, and potentially laughable.
One person's archetype is another person's stereotype. And there's sometimes a fine line between "iconic" and "cliche."
Very true.
It may be worth noting that the appearance of Vulcans walks the fine line between iconic and clichéd.
I would argue that antennae go with the territory of pointed ears and that having so many humanoid species is already so implausible that appearance can't be taken literally anyway. However, I can also see how some might think it was too much of a B movie sort of thing, as if allowing pointed ears and humanoids is already far enough, thank you.
This is a great point. I can only imagine that if Gene had kept the original idea of red-tinted skin Spock may have come off as a complete joke rather than iconic. That one decision may have made the difference between ST lasting one season and dying and what we have now. Or...I'm being dramatic. haha
Most of the stuff I didn't like they eventually fixed, but a few I never got over.
1. Dress uniforms that actually were dresses
2. Season 1/2 single piece uniforms. I wanted to see more of a TWOK style uniform.
3. I didn't mind the Romulans growing V ridges to differentiate them from Vulcans, but I hated their uniforms.
4. I hated the hand phasers. I felt they should have stuck to the TWOK style phasers
5. Reversal of Red and Gold job functions
The things I didn't like that eventually grew on me:
1. The Enterprise-D. I grew to like it, but at first I thought the saucer was way too large and out of proportion.
2. Picard! I grew to like him second only to Kirk as far as captains, but at first, he was too stiff.
3. The main bridge. Looked too different from what I was used to. The captain, 1st officer, and councilor chairs looked too much like a fast food restaurant.
1. Dress uniforms that actually were dresses
2. Season 1/2 single piece uniforms. I wanted to see more of a TWOK style uniform.
3. I didn't mind the Romulans growing V ridges to differentiate them from Vulcans, but I hated their uniforms.
4. I hated the hand phasers. I felt they should have stuck to the TWOK style phasers
5. Reversal of Red and Gold job functions
The things I didn't like that eventually grew on me:
1. The Enterprise-D. I grew to like it, but at first I thought the saucer was way too large and out of proportion.
2. Picard! I grew to like him second only to Kirk as far as captains, but at first, he was too stiff.
3. The main bridge. Looked too different from what I was used to. The captain, 1st officer, and councilor chairs looked too much like a fast food restaurant.
Just 60 years ago, it would've been seen as scandalous cross-dressing for a woman to wear trousers. Now it's taken for granted. Why is it so hard to believe that fashion in the future might go the other way? If traditionally male attire like pants have come to be seen as unisex, doesn't it stand to reason that we'd eventually outgrow sexism in the other direction and see skirts as unisex too?
I've never understood why people think it's wrong for a show set in the future to have fashion that seems unusual to our eyes. If anything, it would be unrealistic if future fashion weren't extremely strange to us, just as our fashions would be bizarre to someone from the 1940s, let alone the 1770s.
The idea was to make them look less weaponlike, part of the general de-emphasis of the military side of Starfleet. Although the design raised a bunch of questions about how to aim the things. I figure they must have sensors that read the wielder's gaze in order to determine where to aim the beam.
I think that was because Patrick Stewart looked better in red.
I still think that. Well, I was more or less okay with the original 6-foot and 2-foot miniatures, but the Greg Jein 4-footer changed the saucer's proportions in a way that made it fatter around the rim (it was originally conceived as one deck thick on the rim but then changed to two decks, I think) and it just wasn't as elegant.
It was meant to be more of a conference room. Initially the plan was not to have much in the way of control consoles at all, on the principle that the ship would be advanced enough to fly itself. Some of the early design drawings and models included a conference table right in front of the command seats. Which, I suppose, would've made it look even more like a restaurant.
First season Picard is TERRIBLE. I'm not sure if it's the direction or Stewart finding his "space legs," but the guy is really unlikeable in those early episodes.
I actually find him a more likable, more believable character in the early seasons vs. what came later.
I actually find him a more likable, more believable character in the early seasons vs. what came later.
Ditto - both Picard's and Riker's characters seem more relatable as actual human beings - then the homogenized caricatures they became later (IE - In TNG, aside from Worf, you could have any character say almost any line, and it wouldn't be out of character for them as they were all equally 'enlightened'.)
In the first season Picard did not like children; and really did not like the idea of families on a starship. Riker had a VERY different style of command then Picard (and it showed) and the character seemed way more driven then in the later seasons.
I'm currently rewatching episodes of TNG. In the earliest episodes it feels very much like Picard is the (more or less) more seasoned officer while everyone else comes off as quite green with little experience. It added to the sense that Picard was more hard-nosed. I wouldn't say he was unlikeable, but he wasn't a cuddly and overly warm personailty. I don't have a problem with that as long as the character is interesting. He certainly impresses as more adult than the rest.
One could rationalize that everyone was getting accustomed to each other and had yet to find their place within the larger group dynamic. This is a bit similar to how the TOS crew in TMP (in the beginning) needed to get back in sync with each other after a few years apart. It might not be what we want to see, but it makes sense.
In TOS' first season most everyone seemed to be at ease with each other practically right off. But in context the series began with the ship already into its 5-year mission so the crew had already had some months to gel with each other. The strong writng and cast performances really served to sell that idea.
One could rationalize that everyone was getting accustomed to each other and had yet to find their place within the larger group dynamic. This is a bit similar to how the TOS crew in TMP (in the beginning) needed to get back in sync with each other after a few years apart. It might not be what we want to see, but it makes sense.
In TOS' first season most everyone seemed to be at ease with each other practically right off. But in context the series began with the ship already into its 5-year mission so the crew had already had some months to gel with each other. The strong writng and cast performances really served to sell that idea.
I know that is likely what they were trying to telegraph, but the uniforms were stupid and terrible looking. Which is why they ended up changing them. I am not concerned with they "why" they did it. They just looked bad, and that is why I didn't like them. When it comes to TNG, I like the "Dress Whites" the best, as far as dress uniforms.
Much like the dress uniforms, I didn't like the look, and I am not concerned with they "why" they did it. I am just saying from an aesthetic POV, the TWOK phasers look the best to me.
I think they would have been a lot better off redressing the sets from the movies, much like they did with the battle bridge. Maybe enlarging it to some degree, if they wanted to have more space. The E-D main bridge did eventually grow on me, but took some getting used to. This is one of the things I think they fixed with the E-E bridge, which is one of my favorite bridges.
I disagree on Picard, as far as liking him. I have the opposite view as you. But I do agree with you on Riker.
Riker and Picard did seem to sort of switch roles. In the beginning, Picard was the hard ass, and Riker was the soft touch towards the crew and more congenial personality, and those roles flip flopped over the course of the show. By mid season 4-ish, I feel Riker was a 180 from his portrayal in season 1. It was a slow progression to get there, but I think its fair to say by Season 4, his character peaked: he commanded the Enterprise as the de facto captain in BOBW, when the ship saved Earth from the Borg. After that, he just became Picard's hatchet man towards the crew. By season 7, Riker was sort of a bully, and its even said he intimidates junior officers in I think Lower Decks.
Ah, I never had a problem with the 'skant'. 
I appreciated the statement it was making about future fashions being truly equal, as well as the general de-emphasis on the militarism of the movie uniforms. My only regret about them is that I only wish the production team had've had the balls to dress up the male regulars in them too (I think the only regulars we ever saw wearing them were Deanna and Tasha in the pilot; all other times we saw them they were on extras in the background).
RE: Riker and Picard, one thing that I found confronting upon a recent Season One rewatch was seeing how there was this undercurrent of tension between them, that is only gradually formed into admiration/friendship by the end. I think this tends to be overlooked. There are multiple times in Season 1 when Riker not only openly disagrees with his Captain, but is sometimes in complete opposition to him. Which, as Picard alluded to in "Farpoint", was exactly why he chose Riker as his XO in the first place. They definitely got that a little bit wrong later on, the relationships did became a little too cosy at times.
I appreciated the statement it was making about future fashions being truly equal, as well as the general de-emphasis on the militarism of the movie uniforms. My only regret about them is that I only wish the production team had've had the balls to dress up the male regulars in them too (I think the only regulars we ever saw wearing them were Deanna and Tasha in the pilot; all other times we saw them they were on extras in the background).RE: Riker and Picard, one thing that I found confronting upon a recent Season One rewatch was seeing how there was this undercurrent of tension between them, that is only gradually formed into admiration/friendship by the end. I think this tends to be overlooked. There are multiple times in Season 1 when Riker not only openly disagrees with his Captain, but is sometimes in complete opposition to him. Which, as Picard alluded to in "Farpoint", was exactly why he chose Riker as his XO in the first place. They definitely got that a little bit wrong later on, the relationships did became a little too cosy at times.
Similar threads
