8X04 "Listen" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!

[Klaus]

And wow, a lot of cynicism in this thread. I think some of you need to ask yourself the question posed in last weeks episode: "When did you stop believing?"

Hard to believe some folks ever did lol...

 

[Mr Awe]

The episode's monster is just fear. That's something different. Had it just been the Silence or something like that, it would be more of the same.

That's one way of looking at it. On the other hand, it is rather anticlimactic that in the end the episode just reinforces that which we already know anyway.

I have to agree with this. It's just anticlimactic.

The only thing is that when the cover fell off the thing on Rupert's bed, it didn't look human. Yes, it was blurred but it didn't look human. So perhaps a bit of a suggestion that it was actually something non-human.

Mr Awe

 

[YellowSubmarine]

The whole episode I was hoping there would be nothing under the bed. I really didn't want to learn what it was.

 

[Guy Gardener]

"The metaphysics of how unbelievable the spacetime is under your bed is, is the cornerstone of dimensional trancendentalism."

 

[intrinsical]

As I had expected, this is yet another polarizing episode. The people who praise it are ones that got the meta-theme. The ones that don't get it diss the episode. Its going to be the same for next week's Time Heist. On the surface, its Doctor Who's weak version of Ocean's Eleven/Leverage with a nonsensical twist at the end. But if you look deeper, its yet another exploration of The Doctor's psyche - who he is, what drives him.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Stop giving details about episodes that haven't aired yet.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

^ Yes, that's very annoying.

 

[Nightowl1701]

^ At least he won't have that option after next week.

 

[Mr Light]

Apparently I'm in the minority on this one, but this was the first sub-par episode in quite some time. The actor who plays Danny is just terrible, wooden and uncharismatic, and the character as written is incredibly boring as well. Since this episode episode revolved around him, it was all quite uninteresting. Even his heroic astronaut explorer descendent was a lump.

I also wasn't crazy about the fact that it was completely left up in the air whether there were invisible aliens or they were just making it all up. And if that was the end of the world.... and there's nobody there... doesn't that conflict with the far superior "Utopia" episode?

And how the hell did Clara manage to travel back in time to Past Gallifrey? If Time Lords can travel back in time to Gallifrey (which has NEVER been shown as far as I know)***, why didn't a Time War Era Time Lord go back in time before the war started and try to warn them or get weapons or something? It just opens a HUGE can of worms, but as always, Moffat isn't concerned with logic or rules or reason...

And if that was a Gallifreyan barn... why was there not a single hint of technology in it? Just for the sake of a 30 second fake out? They have barns full of hay on Gallifrey?

The only bit I loved was the callback to the barn the War Doctor goes to in the movie. That was cool.

***
OK so the only exception that's been pointed out is Rassilon sending the drums back to Baby Master... but that didn't seem to involve sending a person back just a signal.

 

[davejames]

The episode's monster is just fear. That's something different. Had it just been the Silence or something like that, it would be more of the same.

That's one way of looking at it. On the other hand, it is rather anticlimactic that in the end the episode just reinforces that which we already know anyway.

I have to agree with this. It's just anticlimactic.

The only thing is that when the cover fell off the thing on Rupert's bed, it didn't look human. Yes, it was blurred but it didn't look human. So perhaps a bit of a suggestion that it was actually something non-human.

Mr Awe

I think it can still be both. The Doctor originally set out on this search because of a deep, primal fear from childhood, but along the way he discovers that there really might be some unseen, hidden presence out there (because I agree, it really did seem like there was something inhuman under the blanket and outside the door). But given that it's unseen, he and we will never really know for sure.

Just because Clara declared at the end that this was all just a figment of his imagination doesn't necessarily mean that's the case. Or that's all Moffat wanted us to take away from the episode.

 

[Nightowl1701]

"There are some things Man was just not meant to know."

Or Time Lords.

 

[Count Zero]

And if that was a Gallifreyan barn... why was there not a single hint of technology in it? Just for the sake of a 30 second fake out? They have barns full of hay on Gallifrey?

Why not? They have barns full of hay in the US, don't they? Just because you have a certain standard of technology doesn't mean that it's ubiquitous. We have houses with all kinds of modern gadgets next to barns full of hay. Why shouldn't the Timelords?

And since the couple looking after the Doctor were dressed in an old-fashioned way, maybe this was some sort of eccentric theme house, anyway. This is a planet with a Death Zone and hermits living in the mountains (and behind the Doctor's house) so everything's possible, really.

 

[Mister Fandango]

Or maybe Gallifrey's climate may have changed.

The one thing I absolutely loathe, though, is how the Doctor is always making mean digs at Clara's physical features, outright calling her old, fat, and ugly.

I think they get away with it because she is so very obviously, by most people's standards, none of the three.

I take your point, I suppose even good-looking people can lack confidence and be hurt by digs about their looks. But I think the joke is that the remarks are coming from a middle-aged austere-looking man to a beautiful young woman and we're laughing at him, not her.

I'm not laughing, period. Such mean digs, no matter what the target's physical traits, are not what a real friend does.

You should probably considering making some new friends then. At least more interesting and fun ones.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Why not? They have barns full of hay in the US, don't they? Just because you have a certain standard of technology doesn't mean that it's ubiquitous. We have houses with all kinds of modern gadgets next to barns full of hay. Why shouldn't the Timelords?

This. I can't understand why some people have a problem with that. Technology did not make the fork obsolete, it doesn't change everything.

 

[auntiehill]

A bit of a mess in parts, and I'm pretty much over Super!Clara and her (seeming) link to every major event in the Doctor's life.

But this was the also the best episode of the season so far and the first one I've found even remotely interesting. Nicely creepy in a way the show hasn't been in a while, Capaldi is getting into the role and (my remark above aside) Clara is finally becoming likeable.

Good stuff. About...time, too. More, please.

^This. More please, indeed. The tone was perfect, the bits of humor, the mystery of the "monster," I found myself engrossed and smiling. That's Doctor Who.

 

[Cyke101]

I quite liked this episode though I'm still a bit in the dark about who was under the blanket or such. But it dawned upon me that, in looking back at episodes like Blink and Midnight, that the show's quite good at talking about common fears, so that the show's more relatable to the audience. It did so here, but the episode implies that the Doctor's the kind of hero we need because he understands what we go through. Superman's never scared of a bullet, for example. Spider-Man's fears tend to be more personal. The Doctor's fears are rather universal.

Also, this episode provided something I've wanted since wayyy back in the Lazarus Experiment -- quiet character moments. That episode had a really strong climax where Mark Gatiss and David Tennant match acting chops and philosophical differences, and Lazarus seemingly passes away. But then Doctor Who conventions kicked in, Lazarus turned into a monster, and we got the same ho-hum corridor chase scene once again. That entire dramatic chase was merely the denouement. But finally, in season 8, we get an episode with no real antagonist, no chase scenes, no rapidfire action scenes -- and it leads to one heck of a character study for the Doctor, while simultaneously displaying Coleman and Anderson's own abilities very well here. That Anderson can flip so differently between two characters is really impressive, and the script at times is more concerned with Clara and Danny/Rupert making connections rather than forwarding the plot. It's really refreshing. So the episode title probably served a hidden command: listen to these actors. Their performances are great, the writing and direction patient.

Lastly, I'm really impressed with how the show is handling what appears to be PTSD in a rather mature way. It's serious and nothing to joke at (as Clara found out the hard way), but also that even if she didn't know, both Clara and Danny understand that they're both humans and thus make mistakes. Not every depiction of military-related PTSD needs to show a character waking up from a sweaty nightmare or crouching in sadness in the shower; this episode was rather poignant in showing that even every day tasks that we take for granted -- like flirting -- can be a struggle.

 

[knine]

I think that the gist of the episode was simply that in order to be brave you must first be afraid. The point of having the Young Doctor at the end was probably to drive that home, rather than to aggrandise Clara.

Some thoughts:

• Twelve exists, so presumably the "grave" on Trenzalore never did and neither did Clara's "Impossible Girl" lives, nor the Great Intelligence's attempts to influence the Doctor's history in the first place.
• However, in order for the "Born on Gallifrey, dies on Trenzalore" version of the Doctor's life to have been valid, it should be pretty much impossible for events in the Doctor's post-Trenzalore life to be necessary in order for him to have left Gallifrey. Therefore it seems that he would have left Gallifrey without Clara's intervention.
• If this is Gallifrey, then it seems that the Doctor can, in principle, get back to present-day Gallifrey by just travelling forward in time. (Maybe that was what Twelve was at in The Day Of The Doctor.) Any time lock or banishment to another universe should be circumventable - in part, at least - if he materialises just before it takes effect.
• The TARDIS can find any companion the Doctor will ever have met. Rory and Amy will probably never hear about that, though, so I think the Doctor is safe.
• The Doctor apparently lies in this episode, and probably lies about more than one thing. It looks like either he's regaining an old skill or the supposed 800-year embargo on his telling of fibs wasn't quite that.
• It looks like Gallifreyans build barns to last, even if the War Doctor was really only 800 years old or so.

I've become convinced that the Trenzalore grave site encountered by The Doctor + The Great Intelligence was somehow staged by a future Doctor (and River Song and the TARDIS itself) for the 11th to find and believe he dies there, when he actually doesn't. So those events still take place, but it was not what everyone there thought it was. Much like how the 11th staged his death in Utah. You can't beat the Doctor because future Doctor is always 100 steps ahead of you.

 

[Saul]

Good episode in parts. I get the message and all but it could have been a bit tighter.

So what did the Doctor see? When he awoke he shouted Sontarans. Something for later in the season?

So guess Moffat's Grand Plan for turning the series into "The Adventures Of Clara Featuring Some Old Bloke" is complete.

Hooray?

My thoughts too. The show is becoming more about her each week.

I think that the gist of the episode was simply that in order to be brave you must first be afraid. The point of having the Young Doctor at the end was probably to drive that home, rather than to aggrandise Clara.

Some thoughts:

• Twelve exists, so presumably the "grave" on Trenzalore never did and neither did Clara's "Impossible Girl" lives, nor the Great Intelligence's attempts to influence the Doctor's history in the first place.

Moffat has said that Trenalore could still be the place where the future Doctor dies.

 

[Venardhi]

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I thought it was okay. The episode kind of ended abruptly.

I'm guessing I need to watch 'Day of the Doctor' to get some sense of why John Hurt was shown.

I'm also guessing that we're going to get more on The Doctor's past as time - pun not intended - goes on.