Jennifer Lien...Warlord

[Goji]

Kes is one of my favorite characters on Voyager and my interest in the series suffered significantly when she left (not that it was ever my favorite).

"Warlord" is an otherwise boring episode saved entirely by Jennifer Lien's spirited performance. She completely bested Alexander Siddig in the extremely similar "The Passenger" from DS9's first season, though how much of that one was the fault of the director I don't know.

I'd say "Cold Fire" was her finest hour, though.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Kes would have gone back to Neelix.

At the end of the episode, methinks that Kes was still in a cupboard, and Tieran still had the wheel, but he had just figured out how to hide it better.

Tuvok was duped.

 

[Melakon]

They should have dumped Harry, brought in Seven, then Kes latches onto her, and together they tell Neelix to get the fuck away or they'll shove a leola root where the stars don't shine. Janeway has Kes and Seven over for slumber parties. Everybody wins.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You can't make fun of true love!

They had a love that would endure till at least half way through this episode.



How come Worf got an episode about how sad he was every time one of his wives died, but Neelix got nada?

 

[Bud Brewster]

Kes is one of my favorite characters on Voyager and my interest in the series suffered significantly when she left (not that it was ever my favorite).

Ah, now there we differ.

Voyager is my favorite, winning out over my previous love for TNG when I realized that the Galaxy Class Enterprise bore a unfortunate resemblance to a five star hotel that a certain former captain could get me a nice room at for a low rate using a certain service whose name is not relevant to this discussion.

In other words, the good folks in the USS Hyatt Regency Enterprise had it too damn cushy compared to the rough-and-tumble world of those wonderful Voyager folks. all alone in the Delta quadrant with no GPS and no cell for service for a zillion miles, give or take.

Love it or hate it, you have to admit that the good old Voyager crew had a tough row to hoe, and the charming little touches the series added -- like "A Briefing With Neelix", the first-ever talk and gossip TV show in the Delta quadrant -- demonstrated how people who could have been at each others throats fighting over the last of the fresh veggies in the mess hall chose instead to look at the situation as a 78-year field trip which would earn them extra-credits with Star Fleet and a fortune in back pay when they finally got back home.

Good show, good cast, good stories . . . and good grief, did I really just write a 107 word run-on sentence that almost made sense? No wonder my finger tips are sore!

 

[Melakon]

How come Worf got an episode about how sad he was every time one of his wives died, but Neelix got nada?

Because Neelix was only allowed one episode a year, if he was lucky, to do any really dramatic scenes.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Probably one of the best EPs of the series because of JL's performance.

Absolutely! Poor Jennifer floated around speaking softly like Sister Kes on loan from the Ocampa Convent, Our Lady of Inaudible Dialog for three seasons, always charming and lovely but never allowed to strut her stuff.

Then Warlord came along and Jennifer exploded into action like Christian Bale as what's-his-name, scaring all her big burly henchman into total submission and coming this close to planting one right on the lips of Galyn Gorg!

Be still my foolish heart . . .

And all through the episode I'm going, "Hey, who knew? You go, girl!"

I would love to see what the writers could have done with a fiery Kes / Seven relationship -- meaning a more hot-tempter and emotional Kes (but keeping that kitten-purr voice) trying to deal with the new cat in the sand box, Seven, with her cold efficiency and her complete disdain for Miss Ocampa 2303 who vows to bring peace, harmony, and fresh cut flowers to the galaxy.

If the network had really wanted to heat up the sex on Voyager they should have kept both these lovely ladies and let 'em flash their claws at each other for a full season before turning them into the Hot Dynamic Duo, BFF's covering each other's backs through thick and thin.

Sort of a "You mess with my sister, you're messin' with me!" kind of thing.

What do you think, guys. Big missed opportunity, or "We've seen all this before?"

OH we most definitely have NOT seen it all before. The closest female friendship was probably Jadzia and Kira and there was not much in the way of subtext or fire there. Trek has always done better with the boys in that regard.

Kes bores me crapless, but Warlord shows it didn't have to be that way. Not that she has to be evil, but give her something to do that isn't breathless wide eyed moralizing.

 

[Melakon]

I think they got too obsessed with the delicate Mayfly concept when they were designing Kes. She was referred to as the Mayfly in early notes due to the short lifespan, but she should have been a scrapper from the beginning. She was determined enough to leave the Ocampa city on her own, but couldn't fight the Kazon. Her injuries when we first see her suggest she either tried to resist, or refused their demands and was beaten. She could have been presented as tough and resourceful from the beginning, and perhaps deliberately enticed Neelix to rescue her.

Instead, they did everything but put a princess dress and angel wings on her.

Watched TNG: Attached the other night and spotted recycled names. One of the factions on the planet where Picard and Beverly were captured was known as the Kes. I think the episode also mentions an Admiral Chekote (oops, no, he's in "Gambit").

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Small and ratty. That's what she should have been, a "scrapper" as you say. But then Neelix couldn't be having his Madonna fixation.

 

[Melakon]

He still could have worshipped her. It might have been funnier, with him treating this tough little girl like a princess, while she's basically done with him once on the ship because she doesn't need him anymore.

 

[Goji]

I generally liked Kes the way she was, but I would have liked to see her darker/tougher side more often, like in "Cold Fire" and the scene between her and the bad guy inside her head in "Warlord". Not at the expense of her sweeter disposition though, at least not all the time. About the only change I'd make is to not kick her off the ship and to get rid of her relationship with Neelix. Like, from the start. Have it not ever exist. In fact, let's have Neelix not ever exist period. See also: Harry Kim, Chakotay... my version of Voyager would have been substantially less crowded.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

So who would you hook her up with?

 

[Goji]

Not sure she needed to be hooked up with anyone in particular. Trek rarely made long-term relationships between characters work anyway, so why bother if there isn't a powerfully obvious choice (and there isn't).

But if I had to choose someone... I dunno, she and Tom were kind of okay in Before and After, if I recall correctly. Or, what the hell, the Doctor. She was his wife in his bizarro hallucination from early season 2, wasn't she?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

And when she dies a handful of years after they get together he can just turn off his grief subroutines and move on. She won't have to worry about him at all.

 

[Goji]

Or she'll evolve into a ball of light again and they'll have something else in common.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

 

[Lynx]

Kes is one of my favorite characters on Voyager and my interest in the series suffered significantly when she left (not that it was ever my favorite).

"Warlord" is an otherwise boring episode saved entirely by Jennifer Lien's spirited performance. She completely bested Alexander Siddig in the extremely similar "The Passenger" from DS9's first season, though how much of that one was the fault of the director I don't know.

I'd say "Cold Fire" was her finest hour, though.

"Cold Fire" is my absolute Voyager favorite episode.

I like "Warlord" too. Top 5 episodes for me.

 

[Bud Brewster]

She could have been presented as tough and resourceful from the beginning, and perhaps deliberately enticed Neelix to rescue her.

Instead, they did everything but put a princess dress and angel wings on her..

That's exactly what I was thinking after seeing her in Warlord! Give that gal some room and watch her go!

 

[Melakon]

I just don't think they knew what to do with her. She always seemed shy and retiring to me, a sort of clinging vine anchor for Neelix. Maybe they didn't want to make her more assertive because they saw that as B'Elanna's job. When she finally shows some self determination, it's because a man's mind is in her body. Sheesh.

 

[Goji]

Did they know what to do with anyone? Harry Kim's big stand out shows ("Non Sequitor", "Favorite Son", "Emanations") were way, way worse than anything that featured Kes, and he was infinitely blander. I like Tom Paris as much or more than I do Kes, but he was just as wasted in the first few seasons (not that it got much better later on, outside of "Thirty Days" and a handful of others), and outside of being "the pilot" had less of a character. Was he ever believable as "the bad boy" of the crew? Every time Chakotay got the spotlight, I wondered how long it would be before Native American groups started protesting the show.

The Doctor was working. So was Janeway, for the most part. Most of the others were hit or miss in a big way. I don't see how Kes could be singled out as the worst of the bunch. Not even close.