Not unpopular per se, it was actually a decent show on hindsight, and Trek fandom was simply burned out.
Liking Voyager per se is certainly unpopular, but Seven of Nine was a very popular Trek character anyway (Kes has been almost forgotten in popular culture).
I believe that the climatic scene in TWOK of the Genesis countdown is totally out of character for Kirk. After getting no response from the engine room, Kirk (who has cheated death a bunch of times) just sits in his chair waiting for death. Also, the fact that he doesn't realize Spock is gone is stupid. If he had said something like, "Spock, get down to engineering and help Scotty out" would have (in my opinion) provided greater emotional impact - that he sent his best friend to his death.
Also, I think TUC is totally overrated. I applaud what Nick Meyer did with the franchise, but some of the stuff in TUC is over the top or just plain silly (books on the bridge; phasers in the galley; right standard rudder; mind rape of Valeris; the entire bridge crew beaming down to save the day).
I'm all for the cold war analogy. Just a lot of crappiness to take away from my enjoyment.
Also, I think TUC is totally overrated. I applaud what Nick Meyer did with the franchise, but some of the stuff in TUC is over the top or just plain silly (books on the bridge; phasers in the galley; right standard rudder; mind rape of Valeris; the entire bridge crew beaming down to save the day).
I'm all for the cold war analogy. Just a lot of crappiness to take away from my enjoyment.
That's interesting. I'm just about to finish rewatching the entire run over the past year, and I've found it still seems very timely. What elements do you feel are aging poorly?
Squiggyfm said:
You could've just said "All of them" and saved yourself the typing.
True, but I felt they needed my support.
Oh, and I thought, after spending some time in this forum, that ENT was really unpopular....
K
ktanner3
Guest
I don't think you'll find many who will disagree with that.
Ditto
About half and half on that one.
Meh. I always thought the bajor thing was good for only a few epsiodes. Most fans by around season three were tired of the bajor religous stuff and wanted a fresh storyline.But I do wish the question of wether or not they joined the federation had been answered at the end.
Although Janeway was often a crazy, hypocritical bitch, I thought Kate Mulgrew did a much more admirable job than the slightly whiney Scott Bakula or the overrated Avery Brooks.
Neelix was a slightly better character in the early to mid seasons, but Phillips is a pretty good actor really, and I liked his supporting role in The Island.
And Jennifer Lien was good in a episode where she was possesed by the evil spirit of a dead dictator, while she gave a better account of herself in American History X than the scenery chewing Brooks.
I quite agree. And yet there are VOY fans who still sigh for "the good old days" of Taylor and her Executive Producership.What good old days were those? What Taylor was infinitely better at than Braga was making nice with the fans. But that does not a good writer or Executive Producer make.
Brannon Braga could be a good writer, sometimes brilliant writer, inspite of his cheesy ideas (the Russell T. Davies of Trek, while Ronald D. Moore is essentially Steven Moffat, right down to the fiercely sycophantic fan base), and I thought the first season of Voyager was good largely down to the great, late, and much lamented Michael Piller rather than Jeri Taylor.
Enterprise was a very flawed series, but I guess it was the victim of corporate greed, burned out producers and writers, coupled with a increasingly apathetic fanbase who already had a decade and a half of Star Trek, so the over familiar formula was breeding contempt, no matter the actual quality of the show.
That Season Four for me I'm afraid, even though Season Three was book ended by good episodes, with boring shit in the middle (I stopped watching halfway through that season and so did millions of others).
I found Jeri Taylor a bland, uninspired episode writer, but a fairly competent producer and caster - the show improved once she backed out as a writer, but started going downhill again when she left as the producer.
1. TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT are all entertaining and watchable on different levels and have different strengths and weaknesses.
2. 90% of the people who hate Enterprise were intent on hating it well before the pilot aired and made their continued hatred a self-fulfilling prophecy.
3. DS9, put quite simply, is the best written, best acted, most realistic/emotional series and it tackles issues on a level of maturity and continuity beyond what any other trek could dream of approaching.
4. Voyager is very entertaining. Neelix is a great character and the doctor's "humor" episodes like "Virtuoso" and "Doctor, Tenor (etc)" are fantastic.
5. Episodes focused solely on the Klingon empire and Worf make up some of the best Star Trek there is.
2. 90% of the people who hate Enterprise were intent on hating it well before the pilot aired and made their continued hatred a self-fulfilling prophecy.
3. DS9, put quite simply, is the best written, best acted, most realistic/emotional series and it tackles issues on a level of maturity and continuity beyond what any other trek could dream of approaching.
4. Voyager is very entertaining. Neelix is a great character and the doctor's "humor" episodes like "Virtuoso" and "Doctor, Tenor (etc)" are fantastic.
5. Episodes focused solely on the Klingon empire and Worf make up some of the best Star Trek there is.
Jellico was a realistic captain and it was well played. Riker had a temper-tantrum and, it's no secret that he doesn't work well having his ego bruised. In the end he saves the day, and I don't think Jellico really cared about the internal politics of the ship in the end-- he just wanted the job done.
Deep Space Nine is unbelievably overrated.
I've never understood why so many people consider this show
to be some great Star Trek masterpiece.
Janeway is one of the best Captains.
The Enterprise-D is the worst-looking Enterprise.
The Excelsior class is ugly and needs to go!
Enterprise's first season was very good.
The Kazon arc was the best storyline on Voyager.
Insurrection was a very good film.
The Voyage Home is the most enjoyable of the Trek movies.
I've never understood why so many people consider this show
to be some great Star Trek masterpiece.
Janeway is one of the best Captains.
The Enterprise-D is the worst-looking Enterprise.
The Excelsior class is ugly and needs to go!
Enterprise's first season was very good.
The Kazon arc was the best storyline on Voyager.
Insurrection was a very good film.
The Voyage Home is the most enjoyable of the Trek movies.
Agree with the first part of that, disagree with the second. Taylor was indeed a bland, uninspired episode writer -- I think she did her best Trek work pre-Voyager in any event -- but I don't think she was any great shakes as a producer and caster, either. I thought Season Three was mostly boring, and Season Four was damn near unwatchable. If it hadn't been for the remarkable "Living Witness" (and a handful of okay episodes like the "Year of Hell" and "Killing Game" two-parters), I wouldn't have stuck around for Season Five. As it was, the only reason I stuck around long enough to see "Living Witness" was because I was in the process of editing a Voyager fanzine, and felt I had to keep up with events in the show to do it well.
Insurrection rocks!
And so does The Voyage Home.
Man, I think all my opinions are unpopular.... *sigh*
And so does The Voyage Home.
Man, I think all my opinions are unpopular.... *sigh*
I agree. The 'trio' is the best part about TOS. I put scare quotes around trio because I don't think Bones is quite as important to the equation as Kirk and Spock.
I hate the ensemble aspect of the revival shows. Instead of having a few strong characters, they substitute a bunch of bland ones. This started with TNG's mostly unremarkable cast/characters (Picard and Data excepted) and bottomed out with the horrible Voyager group.*
Enterprise is closer to TOS than the other revival shows because it ends up focusing on just three characters. The latter seasons don't waste much time on boring characters like Hoshi, Travis, Phlox, or Reed. Even when VOY becomes the Janeway/Seven show, it still devotes some time to lame characters like Kim, Paris, Torres, Chakotay, etc. Enterprise's supporting cast just seemed to disappear during seasons three and four... a Good Thing (apologies to Martha Stewart.)
* I think DS9 is probably an exception to the boring ensembles of the later shows, but I found the early seasons dull and hardly ever watched it.
Trios can be good, ensembles can be good. Enterprise is a bad example of a trio becauses two of those were the utterly colourless T'Pol and the irksome Archer. Phlox was a more interesting character than either and he got sidelined. A better trio would have been Trip, Phlox and Archer (as you can't really not involve the lead).
I've felt in the minorty for thinking that Section 31 was one of DS9's coolest additions to the Star Trek universe. Shadow organizations exist in every government and I fail to see why acknowledging them in Star Trek was such a crime to so many fans. DS9 was the poster child for rocking Roddenberry's 24th century paradisey boat and I think it shouldn't have been any other way. LONG LIVE SLOAN!
I agree that ENT's trio isn't particularly strong, but I can't stand Phlox (AKA Neelix redux.)
Ensembles are hackneyed at this point and should be avoided, imo.
To add another unfashionable opinion (actually I'm new here, so I don't know if it's unfashionable): I hope the next Trek series is animated.
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