Poll Your Opinion on Subtitles for Klingons

[HugeLobes]

Agree to disagree on this point

Agreed!

But let your people know. I will remember what has happened here. You have sided against us in battle, and this we do not forgive - or forget!

 

[fireproof78]

Agreed!

But let your people know. I will remember what has happened here. You have sided against us in battle, and this we do not forgive - or forget!

 

[Dukhat]

Pretty much true.

As far as foreign language films are concerned, some people prefer dubbed dialogue to subtitles because they want to watch a movie rather than reading the bottom of a screen. Personally I prefer subtitles - but not for make-up languages that just slow things down unnecessarily.

I'm a fan of Japanese anime, and I absolutely hate when it's dubbed, mainly because the voice actors suck (I'm a voice talent myself so I can complain) but also because most of the time the English dubbing isn't actually what was originally said in Japanese. I have no problem whatsoever with subtitles.

 

[lawman]

So, if the performances could be done better, without the stilted dialogue, would that make it better?

The negative reaction I'm seeing is more to the dialogue and the make up, so in the execution, rather than in the concept.

There's really no way the performances could be as effective as they would be in English, unless you cast native Klingon speakers... which don't exist.

I think the best example of how to do it, to convey to the audience that the characters speaking are Different while still allowing for fully nuanced acting, is exemplified by the LOTR clip someone posted upthread... a sentence or two in Elvish, and then one of the characters slips seamlessly into English and the exchange continues that way. You understand what's "really" going on, but it doesn't sacrifice the strength of the interaction for the sake of a fictional language.

 

[fireproof78]

I think the best example of how to do it, to convey to the audience that the characters speaking are Different while still allowing for fully nuanced acting, is exemplified by the LOTR clip someone posted upthread... a sentence or two in Elvish, and then one of the characters slips seamlessly into English and the exchange continues that way. You understand what's "really" going on, but it doesn't sacrifice the strength of the interaction for the sake of a fictional language.

I'm fine with that too. I am all for multiple approaches, but please allow some subtitles, even if it is just a few lines, like Chang in TUC, or Kruge in TSFS. I'm more than happy to experiment. I hate the black and white thinking that if I'm OK with how it was presented in Discovery, I must want the exact same thing every time.

That's asinine.

 

[Jadeb]

There's really no way the performances could be as effective as they would be in English, unless you cast native Klingon speakers... which don't exist.

This is it, exactly. It's why subtitles exist in the first place: So you can see the performance as it was intended. But the Klingon actors are just reciting gibberish they don't understand. Some do better than others, but all are being held back. Even if they're such fans they actually speak the made-up language, I imagine they'd do better in their native tongue.

 

[eschaton]

FWIW I've watched subtitles for many movies over the years. I found Discovery's subtitles by far the hardest to follow.

 

[Norsehound]

I loved the delivery of the Klingon lines in DSC, enough to make me get up and look up more details about the language. I dunno, I feel like we got a wider range of Klingon speech in DSC than in other shows... maybe because DSC is the only TV show to have the audacity to do Klingonspeak every chance they got.

I mean if you're going to hard-avert the humanoid TOS klinks, put in some effort to make it spectacular. I think DSC succeeded.