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Your opinion on SNWs Gorn

Rahul

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
At this point I think this discussion is worthy of it's own thread:

What do you think of SNWs Gorn?

For me, it's a bit of a mixed bag, although in total more success than not.

The Alien-biology
Let's start with the biggest L - their lifecycle. This is not a homage or print a new spin on things. It's straight up a rip-off of all the dramatic moments. It even copies the few things that I hate about "Alien", like the ridiculous fast growth, where a character has a surprise shock death by a tiny wormling crawling out of his stomach and running away, and two scenes later a whole dog-sized monster attacks people.

The Younglings
Another thing I don't like - not just do they feel purely like animals (a non-Trekkie friend of mine was completely surprised they were supposed to be the same enemies that fly starships in another episode). They straight up don't look good - way too skinny. Not like a formidable threat, more like an angry greyhound you could kick away.

The Design
The TOS Gorn had a very distinct look: No tail, upright, golden insect eyes, and a very iconic skull plate and crocodile mouth.
SNW on the other hand seems to completely ignore, and instead simply go by "big ass lizard".
Which, you know what? Is dope as fuck. It looks stunning for a tv show, and it fits with the "retro" vibe of SNW and is a unique take as a recurring Trek villain.

Gorn in a spacesuit
My favourite Gorn moment so far. It's IMO also the one closest in spirit to TOS: The Gorn that fozght Kirk looked like a monster, but as noted by him was wearing a uniform, had sophisticated technological tools, and was an intelligent captain of its own starship. Depicting a lizard in a spacesuit feels like a modern update on the same idea.

The ships
I like the design, looks unique and shown, but at the same time during for the Trek universe. I like the small raiders a bit more, they're almost iconic, the big ones so far look a bit unintelligible, but that's kind of the point.

In conclusion
So far I don't feel any connection to the TOS Gorn at all. I see however big as dope space alien lizards, a formidable threat to our heroes, and production on movie level. And you know what? That's more than good enough for me.

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I don't mind the design, or the other xenomorph aspects to them, but I wish they had been called something else. That way there would be no heartburn in some corners of fandom about the Original Series' Gorn, and it also would have freed them to do whatever they wanted to without having to make it fit (or somewhat fit) with "Arena."
 
Here are three things I would like to see going forward on SNW:

  1. A better explanation for the connection between the feral younglings and the grown intelligent ones: Perhaps after feeding, they go into a cocoon, and like a butterfly emerge as a now upright, intelligent being?
  2. A head design for the grown ups that matches a little bit more with TOS
  3. Individual Gorn characters, with personality & motives
 
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I find them to be dull and uninspiring xenomorph knockoffs, and I don't trust the writers enough to give them a fleshed out culture and civilization past that. But I am willing to watch season 3 to see where it goes, and I'll be happy to be proven wrong.
 
The Xenomorph rippoff ( I mean Direct page for page, even had a Newt) was meh. I don't mind them being first born and being a bit feral and hungry. The chest burster origin. Meh..
The ship design.. Also meh, the hunter craft are trimaran design, when they poped up in the trailer last year, We were all like OH THolians! .. nope.
The full sized one was nice, and Ultra nice was it was 90% practical effects, had a guy in a suit ( a freaking 100 lbs suit!)

Those freaking out.. Remember Enterprise, they had a Gorn, and it is closer to the SNW version than the TOS.
 
I'm not impressed. Just another garden variety take on the aliens from Alien. They look like they could be part of the xindi. I get that the costume in TOS looked cheap and rubber and I get that the ST:ENT version was too CGI (although it's design was a bit closer to TOS Gorn) and I don't think the SNW version of an adult looked any less CGI than Enterprises.
Costume Design has had leaps and bounds since TOS days. Look at what they were able to accomplish In the series Buffy and Angel with costumes. As an example....
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So I don't see why we could not have gotten a more textured/realistic updated version of the TOS Gorn costume. Something a little closer to TOS...

That all said.... I would really have preferred they come up with another adversary. In my mind the Gorn being in SNW contradicts ARENA no matter how people try to fit the round peg in the square hole.
 
I want to like them, but right now I do not. I hope the writers develop them to the point where the connections between Star Trek and SNW make sense. It's still early and they did just end season 2 on a Gorn cliffhanger (Like TNG ended Season 3 on a Borg cliffhanger) so who knows. Maybe what is happening to Batel is the next phase of Gorn evolution and she becomes kind of the "Queen" to the new species of Gorn. That would be interesting, as well as adding some development for Pike who has a girlfriend who is half Gorn and might go Jurati on the rest of that race.
 
Typhon Pact: “Seize the Fire”, STO: “The Needs of the Many” and Star Trek Adventures establish that there are multiple Gorn (sub-)species.

The xenomorph aspect is cool - I like Alien/Predator stuff - but I wonder how it aligns with the Gorn being a sophisticated culture. The ships are too alien for me - one is in STO now and it looks so odd. Not bad, just odd. I might like it better if I had an Eaglemoss model.
 
On the latest Ready Room there was a segment on the Gorn FX part of which covers their eyes. Mostly on how they move but it showed they have several layers. One of which is a shell that the reptilian type eye sit in. This shell has a dimpled texture that to my eye invokes the compound eye from TOS, The FX guy didn’t say anything about it, so it’s probably just me. :lol:
 
I get that the costume in TOS looked cheap and rubber and I get that the ST:ENT version was too CGI (although it's design was a bit closer to TOS Gorn) and I don't think the SNW version of an adult looked any less CGI than Enterprises.
I'm pretty sure the adult Gorn is mostly a practical suit and an animatronic head with some CGI touches, I think the tail is all CGI except in close-ups.
 
I'm pretty sure the adult Gorn is mostly a practical suit and an animatronic head with some CGI touches, I think the tail is all CGI except in close-ups.
Yep mostly a guy in a suit. If you watch the Ready Room you can see all of what went into making the suit and also see Wil Wheaton try on Gorn claws and a Gorn space helmet. The segment is probably on YouTube.
 
Yep mostly a guy in a suit. If you watch the Ready Room you can see all of what went into making the suit and also see Wil Wheaton try on Gorn claws and a Gorn space helmet. The segment is probably on YouTube.
Ah, thanks! Hadn't seen that segment yet, but I had seen some bts pictures and it looked about complete except for the tail.
 
I thought the adult Gorn were interesting, but we didn't see too much of them. The children come across as mindless killing machines and I'm not sure how the Gorn life cycle is supposed to work. On TrekMovie they had a talk with the head FX guy and it seems the adult Gorn was both a mix of CGI and practical effects (a costume I believe), so that is cool to know. Much more technical than rubber suit dino guy from TOS.
 
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