Your honest opinion on the Berman era

[Vger23]

As a child of the TOS-movie era, and TOS re-runs, I still think the Berman era is very good. At the time, I burned out on the later shows like VOY and ENT, but watching/re-watching over the past 5 years has given me a tremendous appreciation for them.

While they can be a little stale and sterile in places, the episodes of the era are generally very thoughtful and well-constructed, the continuity / worldbuilding is outstanding, and the characters are mostly engaging (although this varies).

 

[BillJ]

Tough to give an honest opinion thirty years later. I used to absolutely love it all, as I aged and experienced more life, I find much of it ultimately forgettable.

Though there were times where they hit it out of the park.

 

[DonIago]

TNG: Good, often Great. Sometimes Bad. Rarely Very Bad.
DS9: My favorite.
VGR: A let-down after DS9, especially for abandoning one of its significant (claimed) selling points. Probably not as many Good/Great episodes as TNG, but still some gems in there.
ENT: S1-2 are let-downs. S3 is a step in the right direction, though the overall arc has some troubling connotations in conjunction with events of the time. S4 is easily my fave.

Trek never was and never will be flawless, but generally even the worst of the series, Berman-era or otherwise, manages to have its share of good if not great episodes. DISCO S4 is very true to the ideals of Star Trek even as its execution has flaws. LDS is usually a lot of fun and occasionally has some good things to say. PROD was surprising for what one might have anticipated from a Trek show intended for a younger audience. SNW...well, I've only seen the first season in its entirety, but I've (mostly) enjoyed what I've seen of the later seasons ("Those Old Scientists" is a crossover that works far better than anyone had any reason to expect).

PIC is the only Trek series I can say I found consistently underwhelming without much in the way of great episodes to distract me from the sense of being underwhelmed. S3 in particular...well, this thread is about Berman-era stuff, so I'll leave it at that. Anyone who follows my posts knows how I feel about that show anyway.

 

[Oddish]

ENT doesn't really do it for me, because it said it was a prequel but wasn't, not really. But, I did like the other three shows.

TNG had a rough start trying to find its identity, but it ultimately fired on all thrusters.

DS9 had some hard to watch episodes. But when it was good, it was great. It's as much a contender for "best Trek" as TOS and TNG.

VOY was weaker than the other two, due to showrunner incompetence. But the tried and true formula and a great cast made most of it very watchable.

I think thst the reason PRO and SNW are the Kurtzman series I like best is that they seemed closest to the Berman era style of episodic shows with some continuity, ensemble casting, and quality special effects.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

To not belabor the point, the Berman era set up the franchise for long-term success by keeping the franchise alive with characters we all dearly love so many decades later.

Buuuuuuuuut, it's also become a curse for the franchise due to insipid nostalgia that writers and showrunners keep leaning on as crutches instead of doing the work to make something wholly new.

Very much my feelings on the matter as well.

I would also add that I feel that the Berman era felt very dated by the end, written like a 1970s drama with 1990s/2000s production values.

TNG... has actually gotten a little worse for me as time goes by. I kinda prefer the first couple seasons now because they're weird and interesting. The character work is stale and almost non-existent in seasons 1 and 2, but they're less beige in tone and execution than the later seasons would become. TNG is a show that's fun to revisit specific episodes from season 3-7, but it's definitely a slog to do a full series rewatch.

I don't feel TNG has aged especially well, and I think this series analysis is very on-point, though I'm a bit more forgiving of season 3. Season 4 is where it begins to lose me; a bolder show would have used "Best of Both Worlds" to rework, recast, and reformat the series a la Wiseguy or Tour of Duty, and instead they lock the characters in amber.

I also don't see the point of Berman's films. I give credit to Generations and Nemesis for attempting to break the status quo in ways the television series would not, but by and large I find all four films to be television movie-scale endeavors that somehow ended up with budgets on the silver screen. Here I feel he did what the suits wanted him to do, so maybe the creative bankruptcy is more on them than on him, but even so the lack of ambition in these films is due to the creative choices he chose to pursue and the actors he chose to empower.

 

[Oddish]

I also don't see the point of Berman's films. I give credit to Generations and Nemesis for attempting to break the status quo in ways the television series would not, but by and large I find all four films to be television movie-scale endeavors that somehow ended up with budgets on the silver screen.

That's not entirely a bad thing.

Generations' main flaw was that it wasn't a substantial enough movie to justify snuffing James Kirk. And let's face it, the best action piece was the destruction of the Enterprise D.

First Contact was basically a TV episode on steriods... but it worked because it brought back so much of the shows. Worf and the Defiant. The EMH. Barclay. The Borg, and they were scary again. Even the holodeck and Worf's cutlery.

Insurrection... I guess I never really liked it because I'm of the mind that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Insurrection's all about the opposite. But it has some great bits, most notably Geordi seeing his first sunrise.

Nemesis was trash.

 

[Forbin]

TNG and DS9 fan, with provisos - TNG had a lot of bad episodes. DS9 was too talky. But I bought the DVDs and rewatched eps now and then.
I watched V'ger out of completeism, but found it overall awful. Also watched Ent and found some good amidst a lot of bad, but see no reason to ever watch it again.

Sci fi shows on at the time that I liked more included Alien Nation, Babylon 5, Stargate, and Space: Above and Beyond.

 

[Set Harth]

I watched V'ger out of completeism, but found it overall awful.

Did you try the Director's Cut?

 

[suarezguy]

TNG and DS9 fan, with provisos - TNG had a lot of bad episodes. DS9 was too talky. But I bought the DVDs and rewatched eps now and then.
I watched V'ger out of completeism, but found it overall awful. Also watched Ent and found some good amidst a lot of bad, but see no reason to ever watch it again.

Sci fi shows on at the time that I liked more included Alien Nation, Babylon 5, Stargate, and Space: Above and Beyond.

I thought Space: Above and Beyond, at least early on, was a show having excessive internal conflict for its own sake, not really bad but definitely not better than maybe having a little too little internal conflict, think Voyager and the other shows would have been worse with having that much.

 

[DonIago]

Did you try the Director's Cut?

I'm pretty sure that's a reference to Voyager, not TMP, though as I'm saying this I realize you may have been speaking facetiously.

 

[Forbin]

Did you try the Director's Cut?

The director's cut of the TV series!?!?

 

[Forbin]

I'm pretty sure that's a reference to Voyager, not TMP, though as I'm saying this I realize you may have been speaking facetiously.

In which case,

 

[Oddish]

I thought Space: Above and Beyond, at least early on, was a show having excessive internal conflict for its own sake, not really bad but definitely not better than maybe having a little too little internal conflict, think Voyager and the other shows would have been worse with having that much.

It would have been better with some conflict, though. Some of DS9's best relationships had their roots in the characters conflicting views: Sisko/Kira, Quark/Odo, and even Bashir/Miles (they didn't start out as friends).

 

[Starflight]

Voyager's vibe really works for me, they argue and take the piss out of each other a lot but they're basically united as members of the ship, and all personal stuff is put aside as soon as a crisis starts,as everyone knows they can rely on each other.

That keeps the TNG "no cheap drama between crew" rule but does it in a much more human and watchable way, and alllows for more amusing character moments, than TNG at its "utopian" worst.

The Maquis stuff could have come up a bit more but frankly I just never found the Maquis compelling in any of the series, so I was glad it was pushed into the background and only resurrected when a plot could make use of it, or at least have a laugh with it like "Worst Case Scenario".

 

[fireproof78]

It would have been better with some conflict, though. Some of DS9's best relationships had their roots in the characters conflicting views: Sisko/Kira, Quark/Odo, and even Bashir/Miles (they didn't start out as friends).

Or just delivering on all the set up in the pilot. So many threads just buried over without any consideration.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

TNG has few good moments in the first 2 seasons but for me truly blossoms in season 3 where they sort of figured everything out.

DS9 is the undisputed champion and one of very few instances where a show hits the ground running with a strong first season. Very few bad episodes across the entire run.

VOY I love too, starts to find its feet in season 2. Yes there's a whole different show buried beneath the surface that maybe could have been better if they'd allowed interpersonal conflict but who knows. Beltran would probably have ruined it somehow.

ENT is a bit more stable in its first season, they seemed to have had a clearer vision from the outset as to the show's identity. It does suffer from a lot of weak episodes though. Season 3 was a good change of pace and the mini arc set up for season 4 was definitely the way forward but then there was no forward anymore.

I can happily devote hours and hours to each of them.

Generations is great, a fantastic finale to TNG.

First Contact will forever be the greatest Star Trek film.

Insurrection is okay, I can rewatch it without being bored but it is just okay.

Nemesis is also okay but a lesser okay. There's a lot of issues there but it is stil okay. Picard season 1 actually helped it by showing the impact of it all decades later, Picard's relationship with the Romulans and mourning for Data.

 

[carcinoGeneticist]

I rather like the Berman era. TNG is my favourite Trek show out of any of them, and VOY is pretty good as well. I've only seen a couple of episodes of DS9, but the ones I have seen I liked. Haven't watched ENT at all.
As for the movies, I really like Generations, and First Contact is excellent. Haven't seen the other two yet.

 

[I am not Spock]

The Berman era is MY era of Trek. It's the one I grew up with. I'm a millennial, born early 80s.

Trek was enjoying a lot of popularity in mid 90s when Generations and First Contact were out, and this peak of popularity coincided with my teen years.

TNG started a bit slow, but by season 3 it was peak GOAT Trek . The characters started stiff, but became more human and likeable as the show went on. TNG was actually my first Trek, so i have a soft spot for it.

DS9 is GOAT. It is so good. Again, like its predecessor , it takes a few seasons to get going, but pretty much after season 3, and the Defiant shows up, it is peak Trek from there on onwards.

VOY i enjoy a lot. Its not as consistent as DS9, but when it was good it was great. VOY does two part episodes really well.

ENT was a bit uneven in its first two seasons, but seasons 3 and 4 are some of my favourite Trek of all time. I'm still pissed off about its cancellation today, because by season 4 they'd finally got the formula just right. Short episode arcs.

 

[Mage]

I voted a while back, haven't posted in this topic yet.

I love the Berman era, warts and all. Most of the worst being Berman himself.
TNG set a standard that is hard to beat. DS9 was, is and always will be my favorite Star Trek show ever. Voyager, despite its shortcomings, had a lot of heart and I cared for the characters. Enterprise took a while to take off, and even its first two seasons have a lot going for it.
Berman era is the Star Trek I grew up with, being born in 1982. I remember as a little kid seeing Worf for the first time and being scared. It didn't take long for me to run home when I was playing outside because TNG would soon start.

Discovery, Picard, SNW, LDS, I love it all! It's friggin Star Trek. Even the shows I think are only ok mean something to me, because the franchise does. But the Berman Era will always be my Star Trek.

 

[Forbin]

Berman had two major negatives, IMHO: he kept writing episodes tho he was a terrible writer; and he insisted on boring background music instead of anything interesting or exciting.