Your honest opinion on the Berman era

[fireproof78]

I have gotten used to the fact that not too much good Trek will be produced from this point on to my death. I'm ok with it now. I have been thinking lately that I have a Lot of previous Trek and shows that I absolutely love and it's more than enough for me to rewatch for my last 20-30 years... ....I'm content....

This is probably the best attitude I've ever seen. Routinely there is weird idea I read of "Oh my gosh, this latest iteration isn't for me! The franchise is ruined!@!!!!!!!!!!! "

And...I'm like, "But it's not." Like, the thing that made me enjoy and love Star Trek still exists. It hasn't stopped. I still watch the same old shows and enjoy them even though I'll never get sequels to them. My favorite novel of all time will not get a sequel. My favorite comic strip of all time will not get a follow up. There is no need. To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

 

[Dar70]

This is probably the best attitude I've ever seen. Routinely there is weird idea I read of "Oh my gosh, this latest iteration isn't for me! The franchise is ruined!@!!!!!!!!!!! "

And...I'm like, "But it's not." Like, the thing that made me enjoy and love Star Trek still exists. It hasn't stopped. I still watch the same old shows and enjoy them even though I'll never get sequels to them. My favorite novel of all time will not get a sequel. My favorite comic strip of all time will not get a follow up. There is no need. To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

I will say I have be very vocal about SNW and DISCO with the way TOS characters have been portrayed or all the retcons. (You know this we have been at odds a few times .. )But the last couple months I have been thinking that there was so much great Trek from 1966-2005 that I should be happy. I hope that Trek gets better but it's looking unlikely at this point. So I'm good with what we got now.. ..

 

[Alexander Corrino]

Some of Berman Trek doesn't hold up that well anymore (looking at some of TNG in particular here). And I'm sorry, but as a gay fan I simply can neither forgive nor forget the way even the slightest hint at gay representation was either butchered or non-existent throughout that entire era.

Despite the aforementioned flaws I do like most of TNG and ENT, so I guess this puts me in the "I like two shows" camp. Still tho, I'd never idolize the era or name it as my favorite because the flaws are just too glaring for me. I can still enjoy TNG and ENT... but never too much.

 

[The Wormhole]

I was introduced to Star Trek through the Berman era, and grew up with Berman Trek on television all the way until I was twenty (my age when Enterprise ended). The Berman era very much is Star Trek to me, meaning that it was a constant presence throughout my formative years and played a part in making me who I am today. That said, although the era holds a special place in my heart and can trigger an embarrassing degree of nostalgia in me, I also recognize it was flawed as all hell. Yes, there's entertainment value, yes there's episodes that I consider timeless classics which I never get bored of watching from all four Berman shows and yes latter years of DS9 and Enterprise are quite possibly that era's most ambitious works and make for some damn fine television in their own right. But the majority of the Berman era really was formulaic and repetitive. Sure, there are reasons for this, Berman's obsession with making the shows accessible for syndication, UPN's interference, whatever. But the end result is that large swaths of the era are completely forgettable and even interchangeable. Seriously, there are many cases with TNG and Voyager in particular where you can just switch character names from the two shows and still have pretty much the exact same episode.

So, yes, the Berman era is special and dear to me, and probably always will be, but I am objective enough to know it was severely flawed and no amount of nostalgia is going to change that outlook.

 

[suarezguy]

Pretty weird, interesting that "two or three of the shows" is just part and not even necessarily large part of the whole era.

There is a lot of variation between the series but that option two or three of the shows is definitely the one for me, really big fan of TNG and also like a lot most of Deep Space Nine, a lot of moments/parts of Voyager even though all of them and especially Voyager could be frustrating. The worst part was probably some characters being at least a little overused/-glorified and others underused but even that's understandable.

I do think Enterprise Season 1 was pretty OK-ish, potential with some but not many successes, it and early season 2 too often too boring and early season 2 became outright unwatchable, I've seen some of the later parts and despite some being OK they really don't inspire watching the rest. Despite that thud of an ending still an overall really strong, impressive run, especially interesting ideas to have Deep Space Nine and Voyager have the settings and types of characters they did and then doing a prequel was at least logical further idea though pretty underwhelming result.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I think what saved Enterprise for me was that TPTB realized that the old school formula was no longer working and they mixed things up a bit for the last two seasons. The season long arc in season 3 and the mini arcs in season 4 were sufficient change from the formula to maintain my interest, despite some of the results being mixed.

And the whole "put the toys back in the toy box just as you found them approach" is as limiting as it is potentially challenging. It makes for a lack of growth for both the characters and the setting. It's what results in the staleness that I mentioned up thread. To each their own, and remember that I was watching these episodes as they came out, rather than being able to binge them on Netflix or wherever, but by the time Voyager ended, with the exception of DS9, the formula had been unchanged for fourteen years. Storytelling that doesn't change and evolve and grow over time simply grows stagnant, and that is what happened to late era BermaTrek.

 

[Starflight]

Sure, there are reasons for this, Berman's obsession with making the shows accessible for syndication, UPN's interference, whatever.

The thing that saves it for me is that this way of making television - standalone stories which can shift tonally week-to-week, premises that are robust enough to allow for any type of plot, and characters who are not bound to any specific arc but rather defined by their personalities and thus can be inserted into any situation - pretty much vanished afterward. Even SNW in its earnest attempts to replicate it can't quite nail it down.

I think Berman made a lot of tonal errors, especially with TNG which ends up way too wooden, conservative, and emotionally dead at times, but the model of television he endorsed is a very creatively valid one IMO (and the one TOS thrived on). Telling a tight three-act story where you have to clean it up by the end so another writer can use the same characters next week is a real skill and opens the door to all kinds of superb freelance scripts.

 

[Turtletrekker]

^ Sadly, the use of freelance writers and spec scripts, which dates back to the original series, is no longer a viable option with today's union rules.

 

[fireproof78]

I will say I have be very vocal about SNW and DISCO with the way TOS characters have been portrayed or all the retcons. (You know this we have been at odds a few times .. )But the last couple months I have been thinking that there was so much great Trek from 1966-2005 that I should be happy. I hope that Trek gets better but it's looking unlikely at this point. So I'm good with what we got now.. ..

Acceptance is a powerful tool.

 

[Dar70]

Acceptance is a powerful tool.

Haha.. Especially with age. At least I did like some of it. Not a lot but some of it. Disco for example ended up with a strong last season.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

^ Sadly, the use of freelance writers and spec scripts, which dates back to the original series, is no longer a viable option with today's union rules.

Why not? Did some new WGA rule forbid use of outside script writers?

 

[tomalak301]

Why not? Did some new WGA rule forbid use of outside script writers?

I was wondering something similar. How can new writers get experience if they can't have the opportunity.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I believe it has to do with writers having to have an agent beforehand rather than being allowed to simply send it in unsolicited spec scripts.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I believe it has to do with writers having to have an agent beforehand rather than being allowed to simply send it in unsolicited spec scripts.

When did having an agent become a requirement?

 

[Firebird]

I believe it has to do with writers having to have an agent beforehand rather than being allowed to simply send it in unsolicited spec scripts.

Accepting unsolicited scripts or even pitches opens up studios and producers to frivolous lawsuits if you get some jackass who thinks the ghost of an idea they told someone fifteen years ago suddenly matches an element in a released film/show. It sadly happens enough that I don't blame studios for locking down submission requirements.

In general, sending unsolicited material to pros in the business is hugely frowned upon. Just don't do it.

 

[Admiral Archer]

Does TNG even count as Berman era, or is it late Roddenberry era? Asking cause it might impact my vote.

While I adore TNG (It's my second favorite Star Trek series) I generally dislike DS9 and Voyager, and Enterprise from season three onwards; even though there may have been a handful of episodes from each series I enjoyed, each of the latter three series kinda ruined the lore, introducing concepts such as Section 31, The Dominion War, Species 8472 and the Xindi War, all of which were at best the antithesis of good Star Trek, and at worst, just plain stupid.

That is not even all that is wrong with the Berman era. The biggest crime they committed was taking a creative property such as Star Trek, and making it generally BORING. There was little to no imagination in each Berman series after TNG, and the writing became lazier and lazier. Contrast this with the Kurtzman era where the craziest things happen all the time; We NEVER would have gotten Lower Decks, Prodigy, or the best parts of Strange New Worlds and Picard, during the Berman era. No musical episodes, no crossovers with animated series, no FUN.

I look back to the Original Series, and how those episodes were, and the older I get, the more I see that Kurtzman era largely succeeded a lot more at continuing thematically what began in September 1966 than Berman era could have ever dreamed. Thank goodness Berman era is over, we have it so good now.

 

[Lord Garth]

Does TNG even count as Berman era, or is it late Roddenberry era? Asking cause it might impact my vote.

I consider the first two seasons of TNG to be the Late-Roddenberry Era. But, as far as from the third season to the middle of the fifth, I'd call it the Berman Era since Gene Roddenberry was a figurehead by then. In my view, the key turning point is that the third season was when Rick Berman was promoted from Co-Executive Producer to Executive Producer.

For simplicity's sake, with polls like this, I just go with calling everything from 1987-2005 the Berman Era, except for TFF and TUC.

 

[Takeru]

I love TNG, DS9 and Voyager. I don't care for Enterprise.

So yes, I'm a fan in general even if I lost interest towards the end.

 

[Firebird]

Does TNG even count as Berman era, or is it late Roddenberry era? Asking cause it might impact my vote.

While I adore TNG (It's my second favorite Star Trek series) I generally dislike DS9 and Voyager, and Enterprise from season three onwards; even though there may have been a handful of episodes from each series I enjoyed, each of the latter three series kinda ruined the lore, introducing concepts such as Section 31, The Dominion War, Species 8472 and the Xindi War, all of which were at best the antithesis of good Star Trek, and at worst, just plain stupid.

That is not even all that is wrong with the Berman era. The biggest crime they committed was taking a creative property such as Star Trek, and making it generally BORING. There was little to no imagination in each Berman series after TNG, and the writing became lazier and lazier. Contrast this with the Kurtzman era where the craziest things happen all the time; We NEVER would have gotten Lower Decks, Prodigy, or the best parts of Strange New Worlds and Picard, during the Berman era. No musical episodes, no crossovers with animated series, no FUN.

I look back to the Original Series, and how those episodes were, and the older I get, the more I see that Kurtzman era largely succeeded a lot more at continuing thematically what began in September 1966 than Berman era could have ever dreamed. Thank goodness Berman era is over, we have it so good now.

Gene was only the showrunner for the first half of TNG's first season. From there, it was Maurice Hurley's show through the end of season 2.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm not even interested in revisiting the shows I like, much less the other two.