I'd like to see a Darker doctor for one series.
Your favourite pet theories of your own
- Thread starter Emperor-Tiberius
- Start date
Its all nonsense, really. I never said he was a dark Doctor, Six. I said he was an uncertain incarnation, as much as Four was. Indeed, even Terrance has commented how of the first five Doctors, he could see the Fourth being tempted to the dark side. And really, so could Six. Its not just his behaviour in Twin Dilemma, but really his overall performance in the entirety of season 22. He's overtly mean-spirited, frankly abusive towards Peri and belittling to anyone around him. Any signs of kindness or humanity all derive solely from Colin Baker who, like Davison before him (but less successfully so) does the best he can with what he's been given. And he's the Doctor during the most cynical period of the show's history. Indeed, Eric Saward's contempt for Doctor Who is nowhere more clear than in Revelation of the Daleks, where the Doctor is almost completely ineffectual to the story's proceedings (as are, quite frankly, the Daleks themselves).
In any case, I know I'm right at saying Six is ambiguous in his demeanour, as that is intended in the performance. And why would Valeyard, in both TV and audio, and even on print, only bother himself with Six, and not any other incarnation? He's clearly connected to the Sixth Doctor, and it'd make sense if he's the distillation of all that is evil about the Doctor's future. Thing is, the Doctor, as we've seen, can and has been a lot more willing to do dirty or even "villainous" deeds (none that you supposedly subsribe to, kirk, as he's clearly not a villain in seasons 25 and 26), like sacrificing whole races for the sake of the universe's survival. Nothing quite examplifies this like the Time War, where he did destroy the Time Lords and the Daleks alike. You could argue that, as potentially dangerous as Four and Six had been, they'd never go to those lengths, nor would they consider abandoning their title to justify doing so.
In any case, I know I'm right at saying Six is ambiguous in his demeanour, as that is intended in the performance. And why would Valeyard, in both TV and audio, and even on print, only bother himself with Six, and not any other incarnation? He's clearly connected to the Sixth Doctor, and it'd make sense if he's the distillation of all that is evil about the Doctor's future. Thing is, the Doctor, as we've seen, can and has been a lot more willing to do dirty or even "villainous" deeds (none that you supposedly subsribe to, kirk, as he's clearly not a villain in seasons 25 and 26), like sacrificing whole races for the sake of the universe's survival. Nothing quite examplifies this like the Time War, where he did destroy the Time Lords and the Daleks alike. You could argue that, as potentially dangerous as Four and Six had been, they'd never go to those lengths, nor would they consider abandoning their title to justify doing so.
Maybe 13 will bring some darkness..... One can hope.
Perhaps there's a relation but further up the tree? Perhaps River did marry into the royal family at some point and Liz X is her great-great-granddaughter or something?
While the Watcher is a very rare event, it's not entirely unprecedented. It seems pretty clear that Cho-Je was K'anpo's Watcher in "Planet of the Spiders." (It's worth noting that both "Planet of the Spiders" & "Logopolis" were both produced by Barry Letts, so the whole thing is probably some Buddhist concept that I don't understand.)
bump
Well I read the rules and didn't want an infraction. I already have tons of those on another well known board.
14 Points from Gryffindor.
Haha I like Slytherin
I'm not trying to resurrect a dead thread. I just remembered this theory today and wanted to share it.
Doctor Who: The Day of the Doctor - The Best Anniversary Special Ever
Full Fat Videos
I was watching ^^that^^ video on YouTube. Earlier today I watched Gridlock on iTunes for Windows. All this reminded me of a theory I have based on something The Face Of Boe said to The Doctor in Gridlock and something the Matt Smith Doctor said in Day Of The Doctor. First, the lines this theory is based on. Then the theory.
GRIDLOCK
Doctor: Don't go.
Face Of Boe: I must. But know this, Time Lord. You are not alone.
(A few lines earlier the Face Of Boe says "I am the last of my kind as you are the last of yours." Then he tells The Doctor "You are not alone.")
DAY OF THE DOCTOR
John Hurt Doctor: I won't remember this, will I?
Matt Smith Doctor: The timestreams are out of sync. You can't retain it, no.
Now the theory. The Face Of Boe somehow knew about the events of The Day Of The Doctor and knew the Tennant Doctor didn't remember helping to save Gallifrey. The Face Of Boe was talking about Gallifrey and the people on Gallifrey. The Face Of Boe meant "You think you're the last of your kind but, unlike me, you're not. You just don't remember helping a past version and a future version of yourself save Gallifrey. Therefore, you are not alone." The Face Of Boe was cryptic because he felt, or maybe knew, he couldn't just tell the Doctor what he knew about the events of Day Of The Doctor.
Doctor Who: The Day of the Doctor - The Best Anniversary Special Ever
Full Fat Videos
I was watching ^^that^^ video on YouTube. Earlier today I watched Gridlock on iTunes for Windows. All this reminded me of a theory I have based on something The Face Of Boe said to The Doctor in Gridlock and something the Matt Smith Doctor said in Day Of The Doctor. First, the lines this theory is based on. Then the theory.
GRIDLOCK
Doctor: Don't go.
Face Of Boe: I must. But know this, Time Lord. You are not alone.
(A few lines earlier the Face Of Boe says "I am the last of my kind as you are the last of yours." Then he tells The Doctor "You are not alone.")
DAY OF THE DOCTOR
John Hurt Doctor: I won't remember this, will I?
Matt Smith Doctor: The timestreams are out of sync. You can't retain it, no.
Now the theory. The Face Of Boe somehow knew about the events of The Day Of The Doctor and knew the Tennant Doctor didn't remember helping to save Gallifrey. The Face Of Boe was talking about Gallifrey and the people on Gallifrey. The Face Of Boe meant "You think you're the last of your kind but, unlike me, you're not. You just don't remember helping a past version and a future version of yourself save Gallifrey. Therefore, you are not alone." The Face Of Boe was cryptic because he felt, or maybe knew, he couldn't just tell the Doctor what he knew about the events of Day Of The Doctor.
Last edited:
Sorry, sorry, sorry for necro
I love this idea but how would it be possible? Wouldn't that mean she dies there and that's the end of her?
That is actually really neat. I like this theory
Also, if Boe really is Jack, we could take it to mean, “I am the last of my kind as much as you are the last of yours; I’m not,” in which case he could’ve been hoping the Doctor would figure out the Time Lords survived once he realized Boe was human and Boe wasn’t anywhere near the last.
If Boe really is Jack Harkness I hope they do a story sometime in the future that covers this transformation or makes if official.
The Doctor will never reach a final regeneration and become the Valeyard, though if that does happen it's the penultimate final series of the show.
The Doctor will never reach a final regeneration and become the Valeyard, though if that does happen it's the penultimate final series of the show.
The Fugitive Doctor is between the War Doctor and Eccleston's Doctor.
Depends on how much exposition is used to truly solidify events by the time Chib's era ends, but he's doubled-down on the idea that Jo is pre-Hartnell*, and while the Master returns in the finale, there's no major reason to rely on the old trope of "reprogrammed the Matrix" (though that's one of the most obvious possibilities, many are...)
* a grand idea to try to pull off, but they needed someone of the caliber of Robert Holmes to do it**. And he, Terrance D, David W, and the rest aren't exactly around anymore...
** Cartmel's era was clearly fiddlefudging with altered-origin ideas with the 7th Doctor saying how he's "more than just a Time Lord" and was doing things with Omega and Rassilon and his other big buds with lines like "we had issues with the prototype" and lots of other "Wut? That doesn't begin to work at all and it's small universe syndrome fluff, too!" moments that are always indicative of a franchise being out of steam so it folds in on itself. (Shows always seem to build up and expand, then later return to the ideas between other stories that lack any oompf or interest...)
Depends on how much exposition is used to truly solidify events by the time Chib's era ends, but he's doubled-down on the idea that Jo is pre-Hartnell*, and while the Master returns in the finale, there's no major reason to rely on the old trope of "reprogrammed the Matrix" (though that's one of the most obvious possibilities, many are...)
* a grand idea to try to pull off, but they needed someone of the caliber of Robert Holmes to do it**. And he, Terrance D, David W, and the rest aren't exactly around anymore...
** Cartmel's era was clearly fiddlefudging with altered-origin ideas with the 7th Doctor saying how he's "more than just a Time Lord" and was doing things with Omega and Rassilon and his other big buds with lines like "we had issues with the prototype" and lots of other "Wut? That doesn't begin to work at all and it's small universe syndrome fluff, too!" moments that are always indicative of a franchise being out of steam so it folds in on itself. (Shows always seem to build up and expand, then later return to the ideas between other stories that lack any oompf or interest...)
Isn't the Valeyard supposed to be somewhere between the 12th and final regeneration, meaning he could come up at any time at this point? They would have to wave away the reason he exists I guess, but I think they could justify him coming into existence for many reasons, and that's if we ignore the stupid timeless child stuff (and I'd prefer to do that). If the Fugitive and War Doctor's are both pre-9th (I prefer Fugitive between 2 and 3 myself), then any time after Tennant could have formed The Valeyard, if we take what was said seriously.
Also, I thought that the Valeyard was something cast off of the Doctor, not the actual Doctor in an evil form, so its not like The Doctor becomes the Valeyard directly.
I am in a minority I like the Timeless Child stuff.
As for the Valeyard along similar lines I'd love a full series of the Doctor going dark, not out and out evil just dark.
As for the Valeyard along similar lines I'd love a full series of the Doctor going dark, not out and out evil just dark.
That seems to be the way it was presented--the Valeyard being a "distillation" of the Doctor's darker side given form. Perhaps closer to being a future clone of the Doctor more so than a future regeneration at the time. And since the Valeyard seemed to have no problems having the Doctor killed, that really indicates they were two separate entities with just shared memories.
Several novel/audio stories have suggested the Valeyard is a Watcher, since the exact line was "between your 12th and final lives". Of course, now that the Doctor has more regenerations (infinite, if RTD keeps the Timeless Child stuff), that could just mean Doctor 32,421 goes evil, but back then to be between lives implies an intermediate stage like a Watcher.
There's multiple accounts of how the Valeyard came into being in the books and the audios, including that he was secretly created by the Time Lords as something of a "Black Ops Doctor," a temporal anomaly, or a Watcher like you said. I'm not too keen on the idea of the Valeyard being an actual incarnation of the Doctor, because it doesn't make sense for him to want to kill his earlier self and then prevent his own coming into being.
