Your asessment of this accident:

[Alidar Jarok]

Sounds like you're lucky he turned and didn't t-bone you as you turned in front of him.

I do think this is a fair point. My position is still the same that, but for his illegal U-Turn, the accident wouldn't have happened and that the road is designed to accommodate both turns at the same time. That's why Trekker is less at fault.

On the other hand, if he didn't have his signal on, he could have been going straight. Had he gone straight, there's no question that Trekker would have been 100% at fault.

 

[Captain Ice]

Not sure about the law in Kansas, but from your description of where he was stopped, in Arizona, he would be considered as being stopped in the intersection. Also, in this state, he would have owned the right of way as you had to turn across his lane.

He wasn't stopped in the intersection, he was behind the intersection threshold, still on the side-street.

And I didn't turn across his lane he turned across HIS lane to get into MY lane.

What, is he invisible or something? He's clearly occupying a lane that you have to turn across to get to where you intend to go. This is not about where he or you intend to be, but is about where you are before events unfold. You are turning across a lane that he currently occupies.

 

[Yanks]

Not sure about the law in Kansas, but from your description of where he was stopped, in Arizona, he would be considered as being stopped in the intersection. Also, in this state, he would have owned the right of way as you had to turn across his lane.

He wasn't stopped in the intersection, he was behind the intersection threshold, still on the side-street.

And I didn't turn across his lane he turned across HIS lane to get into MY lane.

What, is he invisible or something? He's clearly occupying a lane that you have to turn across to get to where you intend to go. This is not about where he or you intend to be, but is about where you are before events unfold. You are turning across a lane that he currently occupies.

No he does not.

 

[Trekker4747]

What, is he invisible or something? He's clearly occupying a lane that you have to turn across to get to where you intend to go. This is not about where he or you intend to be, but is about where you are before events unfold. You are turning across a lane that he currently occupies.

How do you figure? I mean, one way or another I have to cross "his lane" (I assume you mean where his lane exists in the middle of the intersection) to make my turn. And, as I said, I didn't *see* a signal, this doesn't mean it wasn't on. I just knew he was turning because the positioning of his car made it obvious (and made his signal light obscured.)

And, regardless, on the right-of-way on who goes first once I'm in the intersection and turning *I* have the right of way, certainly when it comes to my lane in the turn.

Now, sure, I may have jumped on his right of way which puts some fault on me, but he changed lanes in the intersection during his turn, didn't avoid the collision (he clearly should have been able to see me and made an evasive maneuver/stopped) and admitted (to me at least) that he didn't see me, not to mention given the timing he likely began his turn when I was half way-through my turn.

So it seems like he wasn't paying attention while driving.

I'll admit *some* fault, but I think the bulk of the fault lies on him. I'll find out what the police say when I get the report Tuesday.

 

[Timby]

What, is he invisible or something? He's clearly occupying a lane that you have to turn across to get to where you intend to go. This is not about where he or you intend to be, but is about where you are before events unfold. You are turning across a lane that he currently occupies.

How do you figure? I mean, one way or another I have to cross "his lane" (I assume you mean where his lane exists in the middle of the intersection)

Is the oncoming lane a "right-turn or go straight" lane?

If yes, he had the right of way, and the fact that you were in the intersection is meaningless -- your vehicle was entering traffic, which puts the yield burden on you.

Again, I'm not saying you're completely at fault, because the other guy shifting lanes during the turn is illegal in pretty much everywhere. But you do have some fault in the incident.

I'll echo Kestra's comment that I'm glad you're OK and also that your doctors have OK'd you to drive.

 

[Gaseous Anomaly]

What, is he invisible or something? He's clearly occupying a lane that you have to turn across to get to where you intend to go. This is not about where he or you intend to be, but is about where you are before events unfold. You are turning across a lane that he currently occupies.

How do you figure? I mean, one way or another I have to cross "his lane" (I assume you mean where his lane exists in the middle of the intersection)

Is the oncoming lane a "right-turn or go straight" lane?

If yes, he had the right of way, and the fact that you were in the intersection is meaningless -- your vehicle was entering traffic, which puts the yield burden on you.

Again, I'm not saying you're completely at fault, because the other guy shifting lanes during the turn is illegal in pretty much everywhere. But you do have some fault in the incident.

I'll echo Kestra's comment that I'm glad you're OK and also that your doctors have OK'd you to drive.

I couldn't have said it better!

 

[Captain Ice]

What, is he invisible or something? He's clearly occupying a lane that you have to turn across to get to where you intend to go. This is not about where he or you intend to be, but is about where you are before events unfold. You are turning across a lane that he currently occupies.

How do you figure? I mean, one way or another I have to cross "his lane" (I assume you mean where his lane exists in the middle of the intersection)

Is the oncoming lane a "right-turn or go straight" lane?

If yes, he had the right of way, and the fact that you were in the intersection is meaningless -- your vehicle was entering traffic, which puts the yield burden on you.

Again, I'm not saying you're completely at fault, because the other guy shifting lanes during the turn is illegal in pretty much everywhere. But you do have some fault in the incident.

I'll echo Kestra's comment that I'm glad you're OK and also that your doctors have OK'd you to drive.

This.


Been there, done that, and got the citation to show for it. Even if his signal was on and his car was positioned in such a way that it indicated to you that he was turning, if he decided to go straight through the intersection at the last second, then the fault lies with you entirely.

I am not saying that you are entirely at fault, just that you share the fault and I would not be too surprised if the insurance companies decide that you have the majority of the fault do to turning left across his right of way.

And the lane that I'm talking about in what you quoted is the lane he would have been in going across the intersection provided that he suddenly decided to go strait.

Believe it or not, Trekker, I have seen weirder shit when driving (like seeing someone signal right, place their car against the curb in the right hand lane facing to the right, and then turn LEFT). I probably would have done exactly what you did, but would have been watching him the entire way for any sign of movement.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

It's Thursday, did you get the police report yet?

 

[MacLeod]

It's hard to say but if the point of impact is after you have straightened your car after completing the turn then surely you occupy that lane, the question becomes how did the other driver not see you.

I suspect the reason why the Police didn't give you a ticket was because the turn had been completed, had the incident occured within the intersection then you might have gotten one.

 

[Trekker4747]

It's Thursday, did you get the police report yet?

No, the slip says to allow five business days which even not counting the day of the accident and this past Monday it's been more than that and the report is not yet available.

 

[bbjeg]

It's hard to say but if the point of impact is after you have straightened your car after completing the turn then surely you occupy that lane, the question becomes how did the other driver not see you.

I suspect the reason why the Police didn't give you a ticket was because the turn had been completed, had the incident occured within the intersection then you might have gotten one.

That's how I was taking it.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Have you gotten your police report yet?

 

[Trekker4747]

Report still isn't available, on line anyway. Maybe it's taking longer for it to show up there for some reason. I'll go down to the station and see if I can't get a physical copy.

I have heard back from my insurance company, right now they're looking at splitting fault, with me getting the heavier end of it as -like other said here- he had the right-of-way. I plan on fighting that as much as I can because regardless of his right-of-way he still crossed lanes and impacted me as I was inside the lane.

Even the insurance company said they hadn't yet seen the police report and said it could change things if he was cited for something by the police, nor have they been able to get a statement from him yet so the final decision is still pending.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Do police reports actually get posted online? That strikes me as unlikely.

 

[DimesDan]

I have heard back from my insurance company, right now they're looking at splitting fault, with me getting the heavier end of it as -like other said here- he had the right-of-way. I plan on fighting that as much as I can because regardless of his right-of-way he still crossed lanes and impacted me as I was inside the lane.

You are aware what right of way means don't you?

 

[bbjeg]

^I think he's agreeing with the other side of the conversation that he was in the lane he turned into when the crash occurred, giving him the right of way (in said lane, after the completed turn).

 

[Trekker4747]

Do police reports actually get posted online? That strikes me as unlikely.

It's accessible online through a code they gave me.

You are aware what right of way means don't you?

Of course, but my argument is that him having the right-of-way doesn't give him the power to do whatever the hell he wants, he still changed lanes in the middle of his turn violating how the "system" is supposed to work to allow two cars to turn onto a two-lane wide side of a street. And he still likely entered the intersection after I did (in order for us to meet at the same place at the same time, since I had further to travel) and he verbally admitted to not seeing me. He has an obligation to ensure a lane he is entering is clear. Having the right-of-way doesn't give him the power to crash into people.

If I violated his right-of-way I suspect I would have been ticketed for not yielding, I was not, so legally I didn't violate his right-of-way it's just an argument right now between the insurance companies. If they want to split fault I can see that, but I don't think I should get the lion's share of it. If anything they should just split it down the middle and say we both F'd up.

Anyway, a lot of this is still pending. I'm going to try and to get a second estimate on my car and see how much it'd cost to just repair the fender and wing-mirror. I don't need the plastic shrouding under the fender repaired (as it wasn't related to this incident and has been like that for a while) and I don't need the fender's paint to match the door and hood perfectly. and I'm not worried about the minor scratching to the door or scratching/cracking on the bumper. It's an old damn car so I don't need it to look perfect. If I can get the repairs done under or around my deductible I can avoid claiming at least my damages on insurance.

Anyway, as I said, a lot of this is still pending his statement to my insurance company and whatever is on the police report, if he was cited for something that could change things.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

^^ Not for nothing but that's a loser argument. And the insurance company will let you kick and scream all you want and if you take it to arbitration you'll lose there too. Sorry.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

If I violated his right-of-way I suspect I would have been ticketed for not yielding, I was not, so legally I didn't violate his right-of-way

I don't do civil cases, I only do criminal cases, but I deal with this nonsense all the time.

"The officer couldn't stop me for a broken tail light because he didn't write me a ticket."
"Was your tail light out"
"Yeah"
"Then the officer cut you a break. Would you rather he charge you with that as well? He's allowed to stop you."

Similarly, whether or not you violated the right of way doesn't depend on whether an officer issued a ticket. It's something that can be hashed out if you go to court even if the officer chose not to charge you.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Sorry if I missed it, were there any witnesses aside from the 2 drivers? If not, the blame will probably get split evenly, he fixes his car, you fix yours.