Young Justice-Tonight!

[shivkala]

Spoiler: I'm not sure if this would really be a spoiler, but just in case...

I don't know much of where Connor's Luthor connection went in the comics, so I am curious to see where the show is going with that.

Spoiler: Connor's DNA

Originally, it was revealed that Cadmus Director Westfield served as the human DNA for Superboy. Later, while President, Luthor started anonymously dropping hints that, in fact, it was his DNA that was blended with what they could figure out of Superman's to create him.

Superboy struggled for about 2 years with the whole "nature versus nurture" thing, until Luthor contacted him and spoke a code word which turned Superboy into a weapon against his friends in the Titans. Superboy, with the help of his friends overcame this and Superboy exiled himself to Kent farm until Superboy-Prime came to "talk" (which ended up with him brawling with Superboy, eventually almost killing him, as well as killing and maiming some Titans in the process).

Superboy recovered, partially, and went to confront Superboy-Prime, this time, dying, but destroying a machine an alternate-Luthor was using to restart the universe in his twisted plan to create a perfect universe.

Superboy was resurrected during the Legion of Three-Worlds mini-series and spent the first part of his resurrection trying to decide if he was more like Luthor than Superman, but ultimately realizing nuture trumps nature.

 

[Thestral]

Do you think the "Red Sun" code was also a shoutout, to the Red Son miniseries?

No -- rather, they're both independent references to the same thing. It's a part of classic Superman lore, going back decades, that Superman loses his powers under the light of a red sun. So "red sun" is as familiar and important a phrase in Superman lore as "green kryptonite" or "Fortress of Solitude." The Red Son title for the Elseworlds tale was a pun on that. Here, it was being used symbolically, because it was a code phrase that rendered Superboy powerless.

Oh, of course! Haha, I can't believe I forgot that!

 

[JD]

Spoiler: I'm not sure if this would really be a spoiler, but just in case...

I don't know much of where Connor's Luthor connection went in the comics, so I am curious to see where the show is going with that.

Spoiler: Connor's DNA

Originally, it was revealed that Cadmus Director Westfield served as the human DNA for Superboy. Later, while President, Luthor started anonymously dropping hints that, in fact, it was his DNA that was blended with what they could figure out of Superman's to create him.

Superboy struggled for about 2 years with the whole "nature versus nurture" thing, until Luthor contacted him and spoke a code word which turned Superboy into a weapon against his friends in the Titans. Superboy, with the help of his friends overcame this and Superboy exiled himself to Kent farm until Superboy-Prime came to "talk" (which ended up with him brawling with Superboy, eventually almost killing him, as well as killing and maiming some Titans in the process).

Superboy recovered, partially, and went to confront Superboy-Prime, this time, dying, but destroying a machine an alternate-Luthor was using to restart the universe in his twisted plan to create a perfect universe.

Superboy was resurrected during the Legion of Three-Worlds mini-series and spent the first part of his resurrection trying to decide if he was more like Luthor than Superman, but ultimately realizing nuture trumps nature.

Cool, thanks. It wouldn't surprise me if at least some elements of that did pop up later on in the show.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I thought the backwards \S/ was clever but I wouldn't think he'd actually be able to do that.

There's precedent in John Byrne's The Man of Steel, explaining how Clark uses his heat vision reflected off a mirror to shave, and how the skin of his face has toughened up in response to it. A Kryptonian's heat vision is powerful enough to damage or destroy Kryptonian tissue, so it follows that Match could use his heat vision to brand his own flesh. The most implausible thing in that scenario is the mirror being able to withstand that much heat. Few mirrors are that perfectly reflective. More than likely it would warp, break, or melt in less than a second.

Exactly, I mean doesn't this guy fly through stars unscathed? Though I don't see this as a major plot failing or anything I just couldn't help thinking about it. Superman is by nature inconsistent and sometimes a blow will stagger him and other times no force in the galaxy can move him. That's without even getting into whether he's protected by sheer will and consciousness as sometimes suggested.

 

[shivkala]

^
Some theories (and I vaguely remember it even being mentioned in the comics once) say that the heat vision is a by-product of solar energy and that he may be able to emit solar radiation in the red-sun spectrum. Therefore heat vision = red solar radition and could affect Kryptonians.

In other words: Comic science!

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^^ That's actually fairly credible by superscience standards, I like that.

 

[Gotham Central]

I really wish that at some point they have Superman openly address his issues with Connor. Right now his attitude just makes him look like a dick...especially since its obvious to everyone that Connor has some issues and could use his help. Clark's dereliction of duty on this front is VERY atypical for the character and really needs explanation.

To be fair to Young Justice...I've felt that Clark was unusually distant with Connor for a while. Even before the recent reboot, he stuck him in Smallville with his mother rather than taking responsibility himself. It was the exact opposite position that he took with Kara when she arrived (and he immediately embraced as a member of the family that he wanted to look after...and his paternal attitude toward Lor-Zod (aka Christoper Kent) who he and Lois were ready to adopt and raise personally.

Thus his approach to Connor...who is in effect his biological son (with Lex Luthor...how's that for HoYay Smallville fans...) just seems very odd. Clark Kent has always been about duty, honor and responsibility. This his behavior in Young Justice is inexcusable. The fact that he throws a fit when confronted by Bruce is hard to accept. They need to show him talking about this candidly with someone in order to redeem his character. In fact, judging by what was said in "Agendas" Clark has been somewhat protective of people he even THINKS might be Kryptonian. Yet here he is faced with someone who actually is Kryptonian and is technically his son...he want's nothing to do with him. This just makes him look bad.

 

[Showdown]

Great episode.

Love seeing Superboy flying and using heat vision. IMO, I think Lex is lying about human DNA robbing Connor of powers. Maybe Superboy will just get them slower. Those shields that Lex gave him are just temporary power boost. The fights between Connor and Match are really good.


As for the subplot, very cool. Marvel's age, no to Guy Gardner, wanting more women in the league... I don't think the guys will mind that at all. As for the 2 Green Lanterns, it's either that some sectors need more than 1 Lantern, or Earth is at the border of 2 sectors. And Batman doesn't want Robin to be just like him. To me, the Justice League sitting around the table talking is more interesting than most of the Young Justice plots. Damn it, I want more Justice League.

 

[MilleniumLance]

yeah the young justice plots seem so juvenile and less important than what the league is dealing with.

 

[cylkoth]

I really wish that at some point they have Superman openly address his issues with Connor. Right now his attitude just makes him look like a dick...especially since its obvious to everyone that Connor has some issues and could use his help. Clark's dereliction of duty on this front is VERY atypical for the character and really needs explanation.

To be fair to Young Justice...I've felt that Clark was unusually distant with Connor for a while. Even before the recent reboot, he stuck him in Smallville with his mother rather than taking responsibility himself. It was the exact opposite position that he took with Kara when she arrived (and he immediately embraced as a member of the family that he wanted to look after...and his paternal attitude toward Lor-Zod (aka Christoper Kent) who he and Lois were ready to adopt and raise personally.

Thus his approach to Connor...who is in effect his biological son (with Lex Luthor...how's that for HoYay Smallville fans...) just seems very odd. Clark Kent has always been about duty, honor and responsibility. This his behavior in Young Justice is inexcusable. The fact that he throws a fit when confronted by Bruce is hard to accept. They need to show him talking about this candidly with someone in order to redeem his character. In fact, judging by what was said in "Agendas" Clark has been somewhat protective of people he even THINKS might be Kryptonian. Yet here he is faced with someone who actually is Kryptonian and is technically his son...he want's nothing to do with him. This just makes him look bad.

Oh boy...you've touched my buttons here...no, you've pounded on them with an Nth metal club.

I'm not steeped in comics lore..I was a causal reader back in the day, but not a huge devotee. So most of what I know, basically, comes from the various shows. This particular storyline has touched a nerve I never knew I had. From the beginning of the show, nobody (in verse) seems to get Clark's discomfort over Connor. Superman's dna was taken, and without his knowledge or consent, used to create a living being. Why are his closest friends and allies shoving this kid at him and expecting paternal feelings to blossom?? I've made this argument in the past-let's switch genders...someone takes dna from Woman Woman, Black Canary, or Zatanna, without consent and cooks up a baby in a lab. Would we not understand how...queasy this would make them? It's a violation of the highest order, yet, Supes is treated as if it's no biggie? Go play daddy with scowling boy. Have fun!


Kara is his cousin, he'd have no reason but rejoice that a direct member of his family survived the homeworld's destruction...Since Connor is a clone of (mostly) Kal El, that technically and genetically makes him the ''second to last son of Krypton'' (yeah, I know, the Kandorians are out there somewhere..), he's Laura and Jor El's son and not Superman's baby boy. And with this episode's revelation (who's the mommie...ick ), I can't help but wonder if Clark knows this, explaining his reticence.
Heaven forbid this ever winds up on Maury Povich.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Maury: "Clark. Lex. You are both the father!"

 

[Christopher]

Superman's dna was taken, and without his knowledge or consent, used to create a living being. Why are his closest friends and allies shoving this kid at him and expecting paternal feelings to blossom?? I've made this argument in the past-let's switch genders...someone takes dna from Woman Woman, Black Canary, or Zatanna, without consent and cooks up a baby in a lab. Would we not understand how...queasy this would make them? It's a violation of the highest order, yet, Supes is treated as if it's no biggie? Go play daddy with scowling boy. Have fun!

Well, the Avengers thought it was no big deal when an alien mind-controlled Carol Danvers into having sex with him and becoming pregnant with a baby that he somehow put his own mind into so he could be born.

Though yes, of course, you're right. These days that storyline is recognized as the violation it was. And you have a point that it's reasonable for Superman to feel violated that his genetic material was stolen and used in this way.

That said, however, Superman should be the first person who'd put his own feelings aside and try to be helpful and understanding to another. No matter how violated he would legitimately feel, he should know it's wrong to take that out on Connor, who's as much a victim as he is.

Since Connor is a clone of (mostly) Kal El, that technically and genetically makes him the ''second to last son of Krypton'' (yeah, I know, the Kandorians are out there somewhere..), he's Laura and Jor El's son and not Superman's baby boy. And with this episode's revelation (who's the mommie...ick ), I can't help but wonder if Clark knows this, explaining his reticence.

Well, whatever the genetics, it's more biologically accurate to describe a clone as an offspring of the cloned individual rather than a twin sibling. It's just an offspring with DNA from only one parent. (Keep in mind that the original, literal meaning of "clone" comes from horticulture and refers to an offspring plant grown from a cutting or bud rather than a seed.)

 

[Hound of UIster]

That said, however, Superman should be the first person who'd put his own feelings aside and try to be helpful and understanding to another. No matter how violated he would legitimately feel, he should know it's wrong to take that out on Connor, who's as much a victim as he is.

1) I don't think Weisman has a good grasp of writing Superman.

2) I think he is trying to duplicate a similar reaction that Goliath had to the creation of Thailog except more subdued.

 

[Christopher]

2) I think he is trying to duplicate a similar reaction that Goliath had to the creation of Thailog except more subdued.

I dunno about more subdued, because Goliath came around to being willing to embrace Thailog as a son after one conversation with Elisa.

I'm starting to wonder if maybe we'll eventually find out that there's some secret Superman knows about something that could endanger Connor if he gets too close to Superman, and he's keeping his distance for Connor's own good. Or something.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I don't know who Goliath is but whoever came up with the name "Thailog" should be shot.

 

[shivkala]

The case has been made that Batman, the loner, surrounds himself with a team (Robin, Nightwing, Oracle, Batgirl, etc.), while Superman often prefers to operate alone, even though he is more of a team player (especially prior to his death, where, at most, you had the Matrix Supergirl). I imagine the YJ Superman is similar, more of a loner than Batman and yet, Batman gets pinned as the loner.

The rationale I've seen is in their power set (or lack thereof) rather than their personality. Superman, with all of his powers, realizes that most partners would distract him, as he'd need to focus on saving them. Batman, on the other hand, often needs someone to supplement his lack of powers. There are times when Batman cannot do the work without a Robin or Nightwing there to help out. Then there's Oracle who serves as Bruce's "super-senses."

So, Superman operates from a "I want to be supportive of others, but I also can't be effective with them relying on me" viewpoint. Batman operates on a "I need their powerset/abilities to aid me in what I need to do." DC usually takes this to the level of "someone with Superman's powers would not need a sidekick/partner" and therefore, we don't usually see Superman partner with other heroes, especially the Super-family.

There's a reason why DC's "team-up" show was not called Superman: The Brave and the Bold.

Even though, arguably, Conner/Superboy needed a good adult influence early in his career, Superman, though willing to accept this clone after seeing that his heart was in the right place, did not want to take him under his wing. Therefore, Superboy headed out on a world tour (and ended up staying in Hawaii), while Superman stayed in Metropolis. From time to time, Superman would pop in and check on him and later on, even helped him establish an identity in Smallville, he rarely partnered with him.

 

[Silvercrest]

I loved the connection between Jim Harper and Roy Harper. I bet the comics never did that, but it's one of those things (like giving Gar a Martian blood transfusion) that just screams "Of course!"

But Superboy should have been asking from the beginning why Luthor didn't report the super-clone to the regular Cadmus directors.

Those... Assholes.

Now, now. You're better than all of them put together.

 

[shivkala]

^

Superboy #82 made the connection between Jim and Roy Harper, according to Wikipedia.

You can see their meeting in these scans.

Not sure which branch of the family he's a part of, but Roy is also related to Vandal Savage. Just a fun, FYI.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I thought Goliath was the truck that used to fight Kitt?

 

[Nerys Myk]

There's a reason why DC's "team-up" show was not called Superman: The Brave and the Bold.

Nah, it's because Batman starred in the Brave and the Bold comic for like 30 years.

I loved the connection between Jim Harper and Roy Harper. I bet the comics never did that, but it's one of those things (like giving Gar a Martian blood transfusion) that just screams "Of course!"

But Superboy should have been asking from the beginning why Luthor didn't report the super-clone to the regular Cadmus directors.

Those... Assholes.

Now, now. You're better than all of them put together.

^

Superboy #82 made the connection between Jim and Roy Harper, according to Wikipedia.

You can see their meeting in these scans.

Not sure which branch of the family he's a part of, but Roy is also related to Vandal Savage. Just a fun, FYI.

Goes further back than that. Teen Titan #44 (1976) was the first time Roy and Jim were linked. Mal becomes the "Guardian" because for some reason Roy is storing Jim's old costume and equipment at Titans HQ.