Yet another re-watch - and what strikes me...

[parsonsm]

I'm only on episode 5 of my god knows how many times re-watch of DS9 and I've been thinking about why its this particular series I come back to time and time again,

I'm a Star Trek fan clearly, and I love most of the shows, but its only DS9 that holds my attention throughout the series,

There are wonderful episodes in TNG, but there is also a lot of filler. VOY was just lower quality overall, and the newer shows I will only judge properly when they have finished. ENT was cancelled before it could achieve what it set out to do.

Its the tone and character in DS9 that is so impressive.

Every character plays an important role and has real development over the seven years, even secondary and tertiary ones.

It also just a more adult orientated tone, which as I've got older (41 now) I've appreciated more and more.

I could go into more detail about all of this, but just wanted to offer some preliminary thoughts.

 

[Velocity]

I really liked all the characters except for maybe one. They were all pretty well fleshed out, well rounded for the most part.

 

[Oddish]

Every character plays an important role and has real development over the seven years, even secondary and tertiary ones.

True. Consider...

If Harry Kim had been a DS9 character...
- He would have fallen in love several times (Ok, no change there).
- He would have met the girl of his dreams, gotten married, had a kid, and maybe adopted a pet.
- We would have actually gotten to know his parents.
- That plot where he was actually an alien would have gone somewhere.
- He would have been captured by the Jem'Hadar, replaced by a changeling, rescued, and rehabilitated from his PTSD by playing the clarinet in Vic's lounge.
- He would have killed Jem'Hadar, robbed Frankie Eyes', and played baseball.
- He would have been a JG by "Way of the Warrior" and a full El Tee by "Shadows and Symbols".
- Quark would have tried to cheat him early on, and plucked him good. But an older and wiser and decidedly experienced Harry would have paid him back in Year 7.

If Nog had been a VOY character:
- In Season 1, Janeway would have thrown him in the brig for petty theft.
- In Season 2, Janeway would have thrown him in the brig for petty theft.
- In Season 3... yeah, you get it, so I'll skip to the end. In Season 7, Janeway would have thrown him in the brig for petty theft.

 

[Gul Sengosts]

There are several reasons why it's my favourite, but I think most important is that it was the most consistent at delivering quality episodes. That is reflected in my expectation when tuning in for an episode of any of the shows: when it's VOY or ENT, I expect most likely something middling, maybe ok-ish, maybe bad. When it's TOS or TNG, I don't dare to make predictions--could be amazing, could be mediocre, could be mind-boggling trash. It's like playing roulette, you never know. However, when I tune in for an episode of DS9, I expect it to be good or great--and in 80-90% of cases it doesn't disappoint.

 

[at Quark's]

There are wonderful episodes in TNG, but there is also a lot of filler.

Well, to be fair, DS9 had its share of filler as well.

If Nog had been a VOY character:
- In Season 3... yeah, you get it, so I'll skip to the end. In Season 7, Janeway would have thrown him in the brig for petty theft.

Not to mention we would have seen him die (and reanimated, or replaced by a copy from an alternate timeline or universe or some such thing) several times. In DS9 he lost no more than his leg.

 

[Oddish]

But no matter how many times Voy-Nog expired, he'd still come back as the same "sneak off with the captain's lucky teacup" petty mooch.

 

[Captain pl1ngpl0ng]

I'm only on episode 5 of my god knows how many times re-watch of DS9 and I've been thinking about why its this particular series I come back to time and time again,

I also love re-watching DS9 and i agree, it's the one ST series that i have seen the most times,
and it's a little strange, but i don't seem to grow tired of it. It's just a very comforting and lovely thing to do
to start a new re-watch every so often.
The characters are fantastic and there's so many lovely small moments throughout the series.
I just love it!

 

[at Quark's]

On the other hand ...

Nog on Voyager:
Borg Queen: See you soon, Nog!
Nog: Then, Ill make the Borg collective sorry for ever sticking assimilation tubules in my neck.
Janeway: Cadet, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Kim on DS9:
Kim: There must be millions of viruses in the Gamma quadrant that no one's ever encountered before that could come through this wormhole! With my luck, I'll probably end up catching half of them.

<OK, that last one wasn't really Kim but 'Ensign Kymble' from Author, Author, but still>

 

[Oddish]

<OK, that last one wasn't really Kim but 'Ensign Kymble' from Author, Author, but still>

A redshirt is a redshirt, I think. Kim just managed to be harder to kill than most of them.

 

[at Quark's]

A redshirt is a redshirt, I think. Kim just managed to be harder to kill than most of them.

Not really, we've seen it happen several times.

For some unexplained reason, it's harder to have him stay dead, though.

 

[Oddish]

For some unexplained reason, it's harder to have him stay dead, though.

Him and Janeway both. She died a total of 17 times, if I remember right.

 

[at Quark's]

Him and Janeway both. She died a total of 17 times, if I remember right.

At least she isn't supposed to die, as a Captain.

17 times is really impressive, though I wonder whether that number includes a number of fake deaths, such as those we see in Coda.

 

[Oddish]

17 times is really impressive, though I wonder whether that number includes a number of fake deaths, such as those we see in Coda.

Yes, Coda is included in that number.

 

[Finn]

I'm only on episode 5 of my god knows how many times re-watch of DS9 and I've been thinking about why its this particular series I come back to time and time again,

I'm a Star Trek fan clearly, and I love most of the shows, but its only DS9 that holds my attention throughout the series,

There are wonderful episodes in TNG, but there is also a lot of filler. VOY was just lower quality overall, and the newer shows I will only judge properly when they have finished. ENT was cancelled before it could achieve what it set out to do.

Its the tone and character in DS9 that is so impressive.

Every character plays an important role and has real development over the seven years, even secondary and tertiary ones.

It also just a more adult orientated tone, which as I've got older (41 now) I've appreciated more and more.

I could go into more detail about all of this, but just wanted to offer some preliminary thoughts.

How's the rewatch going? Any new thoughts you hadn't had in your previous watches, or something you always wanted to discuss with other fans but never had the chance?

 

[parsonsm]

How's the rewatch going? Any new thoughts you hadn't had in your previous watches, or something you always wanted to discuss with other fans but never had the chance?

I'm up to Season 2 Episode 18.

I love how great the opening trilogy is for Season 2.

I think Duet is a bit overrated to be honest, its a good episode, but feel the acting is a bit over the top at times.

What I'm finding on this rewatch is that even some of what i have considered to be the poorer episodes have merit.

For instance, Battle Lines. I always found this episode to be somewhat ridiculous but this time round I found Opaka's sacrifice to be quite thought provoking. The counter to that i suppose is that her character was wasted somewhat, only really acting as a foil to allow Winn to enter the scene.

Another thought I had, the theme music is clearly the best theme music of any trek!

What is also interesting is how much Bashir improves as a character. I don't think Siddig's acting was ever bad, I just feel that in some early episodes the writers were a bit lost with the character. The latter genetic engineering development was a masterstroke, but even by season 2 Bashir has dramatically improved.

I've only skipped one episode so far, Paradise. Not that i think its that bad as such, its just a little annoying!

 

[parsonsm]

I've now hit what i think is the first episode that is probably just bad - 'Meridian...'

Episodes like this where the whole plot line is somewhat irrelevant because you know its going to be cancelled out in the last minute are somewhat annoying.

Also, there is no way Jadzia would act like this, throwing away everything in her life on an infatuation,

Its bonkers really.

 

[parsonsm]

I'm now up to Season 3 Episode 18 - Distant Voices.

This episode freaks me out even today.

I've seen it loads of times and yet it still gets to me.

 

[Oddish]

That one's actually a fave of mine, probably because it's a bit freaky.

 

[parsonsm]

I do believe that the quality of DS9 improves year by year up until season 6 (which is pretty much A+++ all the way through).

The first episode of the whole series that I consider to be truly great is Season 3 Episode 20 - Improbable cause. I consider Duet in season 1 to be somewhat overrated, and Past Tense 1 and 2 to be good, but not great.

Garak and Odo, such wonderful, complex, characters.

I've not always a fan of series crossovers, but I would have loved to have seen scenes where Data interacted with these two.

I think they did interact in the books.

 

[parsonsm]

Currently watching Explorers and its brought home to me why i dislike pretty much everything about nu-trek.

Explorers is an episode where nothing overly bad happens. Its an episode of wonder and discovery (no pun intended) where we get to delve deeper into the characters and history of the worlds that the show is set in.

Nu-trek is all disaster, bad thing, trouble, disaster, bad thing, trouble and repeat. There's very little fun to be had. Its all too serious.

I can watch Explorers many times and still find enjoyment in it. I'll watch nu-trek but i never feel much desire to rewatch any of it.

I'm not including prodigy or lower decks in the above comparison. Animation is a whole different area, and prodigy is for kids anyway.