Star Trek: Voyager "Year of Hell" was to be a year long story arc, but the network said no. We got a 2-parter instead. Do y'all think the Xindi saga is similar to VOY's concept for Year of Hell?
Year of Hell vs Xindi Saga
- Thread starter Admiral Jean-Luc Picard
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While i've heard this for years, i've never seen anything as to anyone advancing YOH as a season long arc.
Who exactly wanted it to be a "year long story?"
The YOH concept barely had enough content to be a two parter, it difficult to imagine it as a engaging full season.
at "Deep Space Nine made Rick Berman allergic to serialized storytelling, violently so."I always saw the Xindi arc as Voyager's concept done right. Truly on their own, they lose a warpcore or nacelle or something, it's gone, excruciatingly tough decisions, when it returns it won't be the same ship, inside and out.
Year of Hell would only have been a good season-long arc if there was no reset button at the end of the story. How much would it have sucked to have a whole season take place and then all of it is erased?
I wonder whether the reset button was also planned for the season-long version, or whether it was brought into the story after it was cut down into a two-parter.
I wonder whether the reset button was also planned for the season-long version, or whether it was brought into the story after it was cut down into a two-parter.
DS9 was syndicated, giving the writers and producers creative freedom. Voyager was on UPN. Give Berman some slack, he had to deal with the network. Berman fought hard just to get 2-parters.
Interesting point. I imagine they wouldn't screw voyager up as much as they did in the two-parter considering that there were another 3 seasons expected.
But what would the weekly content have been? Just 15 - 20 episodes of essentually the same thing over and over?
People forget that while Berman was in change of production, Star Trek wasn't his property to do with as he pleased.
You mean just like regular Voyager?
I don't think an ongoing story arc would have necessary been "the same thing over and over".
I have no idea how much a season-long Year of Hell would have resembled the storyline of the Two Parter, who knows if there would have even been a Time Ship in the same way as it ended up on the show? In Before and after the temporal technology of the Krenim was just portrayed as them being able to put their weapons out of synch with time so they could rip through shields. and give everyone whatever chroniton poisoning is. There was nothing mentioned about the Krenim having the power to erase whole civilizations from existence (and it seems in Kes' timeline there was no reset) and even Kes didn't start time traveling into the past until some procedure of the Doctor's did something to the chronitons remaining in her body. (don't ask me to explain any of that)
So it's difficult to say what the exactly the Krenim would have be like and, in turn, what kindo f story would have taken place
The "Dominion Occupation of Ds9" arc in early Season 6 of that show was defenitely not "the same thing over and over", so I don't see why "Year of Hell" would have been.
I could see a mixture of ongoing storyline and stand alone episodes. Meeting the Krenim (maybe with a bit of buildup), somehow being dragged into conflict with them, fighting them, the crew being split up with the various groups having their own trials and tribulations, finding allies, and a final battle, I suppose.
Personally, I thought the Xindi arc, like the Dominion War arc, went on far too long.
And I just had to look up "Year of Hell" on MA: I had only the vaguest memory of it (conflated in my mind with the "Demon"/"Oblivion" arc that left us wondering how many of the intervening episodes actually happened to the "silver blood" duplicates).
And I just had to look up "Year of Hell" on MA: I had only the vaguest memory of it (conflated in my mind with the "Demon"/"Oblivion" arc that left us wondering how many of the intervening episodes actually happened to the "silver blood" duplicates).
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Difference there is season six of DS9 was a variety of different stories, not a single story mercilessly streached out, if a season long YOH was mostly about other things besides the YOH, then it wouldn't be a season long YOH.
The entire Xindi arc should have been six episodes tops, with no time travel episodes.
The Dominion war completely over by the end of the sixth season, include any aftermath and looking back. Season seven new material.
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Ultimately I liked the Xindi arc for entertainment value, it started off slow but there was an interesting mix of episodes in there. I was disappointed that they used the Xindi instead of an established race like the Romulans, the sudden turn into a season long arc felt forced and desperate, trying to cash in on '24' and explore themes of recent events of the 2000s. That never sat well with me. They were so against doing a DS9 type of series arc but when they finally gave in and tried to play catch up it was too late.
My biggest problem with the Xindi War arc is the same as my biggest problem with the Dominion War arc: it involved an implacable, intractable "black-hat" enemy, which I see as going against everything Star Trek stands for. In the case of the Xindi War, the idea of it beginning with an atrocity fit to make the World Trade Center atrocities of 2001 seem tame didn't exactly endear the arc to me, while in the case of the Dominion War arc, it simply went on year after boring year.
In both cases, the arcs torpedoed the original premises of their respective series: ENT telling the story of early pre-Federation exploration, and DS9, telling the story of a "crossroads-in-space."
In both cases, the arcs torpedoed the original premises of their respective series: ENT telling the story of early pre-Federation exploration, and DS9, telling the story of a "crossroads-in-space."
M
marlboro
Guest
Degra? Gralik Durr? The Aquatics?
Would have liked the Xindi arc to have been a proxy war by the romulans, analogous to Korea or Vietnam in the cold war, or the Spanish civil war before WW2.
Have the romulans take the place of the sphere builders in fomenting the xindi to attack Earth. Use the Temporal Cold War, and have the romulans use the same tactic of showing evidence (made up) of Earth attacking and destroying there world, and them having to preemptively attack. But I wouldn't add the Super weapons of the Death Sphere or the Transwarp conduits, just 1 mysterious species attacking.
instead of a small death sphere at the beginning, you'd have a kamikaze ship going full impulse, maybe warp into earth, causing damage. and the Enterprise looking for the location of where it came from, and at the end the Nx doing a hit and run on a large fleet, and finding out the Romulans were the instigators and starts off a cold war with the romulans.
That would have kept a build up to the romulan war, and show that the romulans use proxys and underhanded tactics and not a full blown war at first to destabilize the area.
would kind of been the same as the xindi year that was shown, but have it not be a hard left turn of a new unknown enemy.
And with the Year of Hell, have an explanation of the Krenim controling a small sub arm of the galaxy that extends towards the next arm, having it be a 1000 light years long, with voyager unable to "Go Around" because they would have to detour by many 1000's of LY to find another bridge to the next arm. and they wouldn't have enough supplies to make it through the void. instead of Janeway being an Ass and saying screw you we're going through..
Kind of like the xindi arc where they would be attacked occasionally, they would find freinds in subugated species in the sub arm, maybe blow off a warp nacelle, OR, Destroy voyager and have them find another ship to get home on, and upgrade it with feddy tech. Or Really gut the ship, and have them meet up with a rebel group that has acess to a drydock and repair the ship. by that time the ship was Cgi so easy to "upgrade" it.
Have the romulans take the place of the sphere builders in fomenting the xindi to attack Earth. Use the Temporal Cold War, and have the romulans use the same tactic of showing evidence (made up) of Earth attacking and destroying there world, and them having to preemptively attack. But I wouldn't add the Super weapons of the Death Sphere or the Transwarp conduits, just 1 mysterious species attacking.
instead of a small death sphere at the beginning, you'd have a kamikaze ship going full impulse, maybe warp into earth, causing damage. and the Enterprise looking for the location of where it came from, and at the end the Nx doing a hit and run on a large fleet, and finding out the Romulans were the instigators and starts off a cold war with the romulans.
That would have kept a build up to the romulan war, and show that the romulans use proxys and underhanded tactics and not a full blown war at first to destabilize the area.
would kind of been the same as the xindi year that was shown, but have it not be a hard left turn of a new unknown enemy.
And with the Year of Hell, have an explanation of the Krenim controling a small sub arm of the galaxy that extends towards the next arm, having it be a 1000 light years long, with voyager unable to "Go Around" because they would have to detour by many 1000's of LY to find another bridge to the next arm. and they wouldn't have enough supplies to make it through the void. instead of Janeway being an Ass and saying screw you we're going through..
Kind of like the xindi arc where they would be attacked occasionally, they would find freinds in subugated species in the sub arm, maybe blow off a warp nacelle, OR, Destroy voyager and have them find another ship to get home on, and upgrade it with feddy tech. Or Really gut the ship, and have them meet up with a rebel group that has acess to a drydock and repair the ship. by that time the ship was Cgi so easy to "upgrade" it.
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Quite true about the sphere-builders. And now that I think about it, the Xindi thankfully didn't remain implacable and intractable once they realized that the sphere-builders were using them as cannon-fodder.
Puppets mostly, although the leaders of the lizard people to the end were bad people.
No, TPTB were right to create a new interesting multi-race species. There are plenty of species in the galaxy, let's spend time with some of them.
Everything doesn't have to be either the Romulans or the Klingons. Both could have been completely excluded from ENT and imho the show would have been better for it.
The Romulans will one day hopefully get their own big 22nd century war, if we're damned lucky it will be well done and epic.
I always thought the idea of the Xindi was really cool. Basically, 5 species of the same main race. It has its scientific flaws, obviously, but that was a great creative choice, and it was pulled off pretty well.
Brannon Braga had his faults, but a lack of imagination and a fountain of high concept scifi ideas was not one of them.
Brannon Braga had his faults, but a lack of imagination and a fountain of high concept scifi ideas was not one of them.
True.
I think the best thing about the Xindi arc was them learning they were both being manipulated, and learning to work together.
Degra was a great character.
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