Xindi connection in TAS?

[F. King Daniel]

I do not know whether it is legally possible to depict Kzinti in new Star Trek productions.

One one hand, the Kzinti were created by Larry Niven for his "known space" series which is a totally different ficitonal setting than the Star Trek setting and are owned by Larry Niven.

On the other hand, Niven permitted Kzinti to appear in the TAS episode "The Slaver Weapon" and wrote the episode himself based on his story "The Soft Weapon", thus letting his Kzinti, or some sort of parallel universe version of them, become part of any fictional universe which includes the TAS episode "The Slaver Weapon.

So I suspect that lawyers will be consulted before any Kzinti appear in any new Star Trek productions.

It got so complicated that the (never made) TOS-era New Voyages fan film adaptation of the (also unmade) Enterprise season 5 Kzinti episode "Kilkenny Cats" chose to swap the Kzinti for the Kythari (sp?), a feloid race from an officially published Trek short story.

90's TNG novel The Captain's Honor features the M'dok, who were originally meant to be Kzinti.

Picard showrunner Michael Chabon sought Larry Niven's permission for the Kzinti namedrop there. But a namedrop is one thing, featuring them is another.

 

[GeekFilter]

I do not know whether it is legally possible to depict Kzinti in new Star Trek productions.

On one hand, the Kzinti were created by Larry Niven for his "known space" series which is a totally different ficitonal setting than the Star Trek setting and the Kzinti are owned by Larry Niven.

On the other hand, Niven permitted Kzinti to appear in the TAS episode "The Slaver Weapon" and wrote the episode himself based on his story "The Soft Weapon", thus letting his Kzinti, or some sort of parallel universe version of them, become part of any fictional universe which includes the TAS episode "The Slaver Weapon.

So I suspect that lawyers will be consulted before any Kzinti appear in any new Star Trek productions.

They spoke to Larry Niven and he gave the production his blessing. When we interviewed him (Before Picard) he seemed open to seeing Trek featured Kzinti.

 

[Scott Kellogg]

One side note concerning the Xindi:
I only watched Enterprise once, on it's initial run, but there was one good laugh I had at the show.
They showed the skull of an extinct "Avian Xindi"

The prop they used was quite apparently the skull of a Giraffe.

Only on "Enterprise" would they try to turn a heavy boned Giraffe into an avian creature!

 

[publiusr]

No teratorn skulls I guess

 

[Mytran]

One side note concerning the Xindi:
I only watched Enterprise once, on it's initial run, but there was one good laugh I had at the show.
They showed the skull of an extinct "Avian Xindi"

The prop they used was quite apparently the skull of a Giraffe.

Only on "Enterprise" would they try to turn a heavy boned Giraffe into an avian creature!

I think you'll find that was a space-giraffe, actually!

I suppose they thought that most of their audience would be unfamiliar enough with giraffe anatomy that they wouldn't notice? To be fair, I did not - they're not exactly common animals in the western world

 

[Scott Kellogg]

Here's the picture:

I haven't seen this since it aired.
It's a good thing they only showed it for a second.
With a head that heavy, it would take a wingspan of a B-17 to get it off the ground!

 

[Albertese]

Yeah... seems odd that an avian skull would have mammalian teeth....
--Alex

 

[Mytran]

Yeah... seems odd that an avian skull would have mammalian teeth....
--Alex

Depends how loose the Xindi are being with their term of "avian".
Bats are airborne creatures and have teeth, after all.

 

[Scott Kellogg]

Depends how loose the Xindi are being with their term of "avian".
Bats are airborne creatures and have teeth, after all.

True, but the bone and jaw structure is that of a very heavy leaf eating herbivore. Heavy muscle attachment points for chewing plants. Not to mention the heavy ossocone structure of the Giraffe's horns. Nothing like a bird's extremely pared down and hollow bone structure.

Anything that flies has very tight weight considerations.

But, it's not the first time a Giraffe skull has been used for fantastical beasts. I gather there are ancient Greek pots that depicted Jason (or maybe it was Hercules) fighting the Hydra. And the artist drew a Giraffe skull as the head of the Hydra.

 

[Mytran]

True, but the bone and jaw structure is that of a very heavy leaf eating herbivore. Heavy muscle attachment points for chewing plants.

Oh I agree, everything else is completely antithetical to an airborne creature!

 

[Therin of Andor]

We need pictures (and name tags):

The Elysian Council appeared in "The Time Trap" and was novelised by Alan Dean Foster in "Star Trek Log Four".

The episode shows members of these races to be the twelve Councilors: Romulan; Klingon; Kzin; Andorian; an ant-like insectoid; Phylosian; a female alien with a water-filled helmet; Vulcan; Tellarite; human(?) female; Gorn; and the Speaker of the Laws, a female Orion (not pictured here) named Devna. Some alien races present on the Council were slightly renamed (and therefore re-identified as different races) in the novelization , ie. Gorin (for the Gorn); Tallerine (for the Tellarite); Berikazin (for the prototype Kzin depicted); and Edoan (for the Andorian), now usually written as Edosian.

Eleven of the twelve Councilors are also mentioned (or featured) in the eBook, "Starfleet Corps of Engineers: Where Time Stands Still" but, in that story, the human female has seemingly been replaced by a Valzhan named Saraven. The Kzin representative manages to go unidentified and undescribed.

And yes, Kaferian apples are from TOS and the insectoid Kaferian depicted in "Worlds of the Federation" by Shane (Lara) Johnson was intended as a TAS homage. I think Bantam's "Star Trek Maps" also made that connection.

Niven permitted Kzinti to appear in the TAS episode "The Slaver Weapon" and wrote the episode himself based on his story "The Soft Weapon", thus letting his Kzinti, or some sort of parallel universe version of them, become part of any fictional universe which includes the TAS episode "The Slaver Weapon".

Niven also cowrote (with Sharman DiVono) "The Wristwatch Plantation" - a comic strip sequel to "The Slaver Weapon" - written for the LA Times Syndicate's post-"The Motion Picture" comic strip. In that, the kzintis' distinctive batwing ears were modified.


LA Times Syndicate kzinti, "The Wristwatch Plantation" by Ian McLean, on Flickr

 

[publiusr]

I thought that was a Romulan by the Tellarite

 

[CorporalCaptain]

You can tell it's a Vulcan next to the Tellarite, mainly because the patterns on his clothing resemble those on what Sarek wore in "Journey to Babel" and in "Yesteryear."

Xerius, on the other hand, on the extreme left, has a hexagonal cape clasp that vaguely resembles some of the Romulan symbols on the sets in "The Enterprise Incident."

According to Memory Alpha, the script identifies the female with the breathing apparatus as an amphibian, so in that case she couldn't be, say, related to the the Aquans from Argo, the species from "The Ambergris Element," except maybe distantly.

And, yes, I believe that we are supposed to assume that the female between the Tellarite and the Gorn is a Human.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Elysian_Ruling_Council

 

[Therin of Andor]

According to Memory Alpha, the script identifies the female with the breathing apparatus as an amphibian, so in that case she couldn't be, say, related to the the Aquans from Argo, the species from "The Ambergris Element," except maybe distantly.

I suspect that the amphibious female and the bear-like version of a kzin might be based on preliminary sketches that were later revised for "The Ambergris Element" and "The Slaver Weapon".

 

[Scott Kellogg]

I don't recall any evidence that the Aquans in "The Ambergris Element" were a space faring species.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I don't recall any evidence that the Aquans in "The Ambergris Element" were a space faring species.

Exactly.

One of the aliens Roddenberry wanted to try in TOS was someone "in a water-filled helmet" and animation finally presented the opportunity to do it effectively.

The Councilor is not an Aquan.


Marine Person from Vega, inspired from a TAS alien. by Ian McLean, on Flickr

Robert Fletcher designed the "Marine People from Vega", with a similar water-filled helmet-and-suit concept, for consideration for "Star Trek: The Motion Picture". (The Vegans later became Rhaandarites. The striated forehead went to the K'Normians.)