WTF moments in TOS & TAS....

[Timo]

By the rules of TOS, Lester and Coleman would be in and out of a penal colony in a jiffy, cured of their specific criminal tendencies (but of nothing else) by Adams' proven and accepted brainwashing techniques. After this, Lester would still be lost in the world without the all-important man to her side. And that's when Coleman ought to step in and provide the support. Kirk isn't thinking on the short term there, but managing his personal Lester Problem the best he can.

As for evidence, they got confessions - there's no sign either Coleman or Lester would fail to cooperate. And why would they wish to lie? They have nothing to win. They aren't facing a punishment even if they confess, as punishments are a thing of the barbaric past. They just get this particular criminal scheme erased from their to-do list for good.

In short, they are no threat to anyone except people stupid enough to deliberately park right on top of them and say "shoot me".

And the story doesn't call for them to be a threat. They're just the piece of real estate the UFP wants to confiscate in order to bring the general region under their fist.

Of course, the UFP could suspect them of being behind the local troubles somehow - perhaps harboring Klingons or something. And the UFP does know something went wrong with the Valiant. So blackmailing the port from these bad guys is preferable to inconveniencing some nice people nearby.

"The Mark of Gideon". We're experiencing an extreme overpopulation crisis, so we're going to build a 1:1 replica USS Enterprise on the surface of our planet in the hopes that Kirk will pass along a disease to the single member of our species we're gonna trap with him.

Well, the locals were crazy, that is, they had religion. No telling what sort of rules they would lay down for themselves.

Building the partial replica (Kirk would never have had the time to truly study the whole ship, plus he was feverish and supposedly drugged anyway) isn't the actual plot hole here. The hole is, why did the Gideonites need to keep Kirk disoriented in the first place? What was to be gained by that? They managed to keep him unconscious for the first few minutes, when they did their medical deed; why wake him up at all? Was it a propaganda project first and foremost, what with all those spectators beyond the walls? To show how it is a great idea to die?

It was certainly the incorrect term, but perhaps it was intended to mean that each tribble has both sets of sexual organs, allowing it to reproduce without mating?

Or then there were two sexes, each with just one set of organs, and half the sex going on wasn't of the reproductive sort. Nothing going against that specifically there.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Commishsleer]

Lester and Coleman cooperated in the death of Lester's team.
Maybe it would be hard to prove Lesters guilt but Coleman would have to admit to being an incompetent doctor at least.
And I think Coleman would be easy to crack. Oh wouldn't it be good to have secret recording instruments aboard the Enterprise that would show Coleman and Lester discussing their 'evil plan'.

I don't know if Starfleet would refuse to admit Lester taking over Kirk's body. They must have accepted it in the other fake Kirk incidents in Mirror Mirror, Enemy Within, What Are Little Girls Made Of even in "Whom Gods Destroyed"

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I don't know if Starfleet would refuse to admit Lester taking over Kirk's body. They must have accepted it in the other fake Kirk incidents in Mirror Mirror, Enemy Within, What Are Little Girls Made Of even in "Whom Gods Destroyed"

I hadn't considered that. The Lester incident marked the fifth time Captain Kirk behaved badly and had an incredible excuse. Somebody at Headquarters must have been thinking he was making fools of them.

 

[Marsden]

At the end of "Turnabout Intruder" where Kirk asked Coleman to look after Lester.
Coleman was as guilty as Lester.
Does that mean prisons are mixed gender in the future?

We know that to be true, there were both at Tantulus colony and Elba II.

And the way they kind of just walk down the hall, it seems like they're both off the hook, doesn't it? Noone even says to arrest them, just sorrow over her been such a bad nasty person.

Yes, and another issue with "Turnabout" is that Kirk would have a lot of explaining to do until Starfleet decided to buy into his seemingly-preposterous story about Janice Lester controlling his body. How much evidence is there, really? Does the ghostly, still-image body-switching effect show up on surveillance video? I doubt it. I think we were seeing it from the omniscient perspective, the one that can hear the music score.

If Lester and Coleman decided to lie their asses off and deny everything, Kirk would be holding the bag for ordering an execution, with only Spock's word about the mind-meld, and hearsay from McCoy and Scotty to back him up. And if Lester set the Camus II machine to self-destruct on a timer, there might be no hard evidence whatsoever.

I wonder if a real investigation would find the cause of the other scientists deaths, none was done with Lester in command.

In Mirror, Mirror, Kirk didn't really get away with anything, In Whom Gods Destroy, he didn't even get to the ship, in What Are Little Girls Made Of? he stole the secret command files but no one was able to act on them.

The Enemy Within was the only time Kirk really "did" something, several somethings, assault, attempted assault, aggravated assault, and leaving crew in a hazardous environment, but they really were Kirk, at least a part of him. I'm sure with Dr. McCoy's medical logs and Mr. Spock and Mr. Scott's testimony there wouldn't be any trouble.
In the Naked Time, Kirk started to go, too. The only bridge officer that held it together all episode was Uhura, that was the first time she was in command that I remember, production order wise at least.

Kirk also acted really questionably in The Enterprise Incident, but then it's all blown off as a secret op, but really, next time Kirk starts blowing a circuit would the crew just assume they are infiltration enemy space again?

Kirk seems to give his orders a back seat chasing the blood thirsty Dikeronium Cloud, his main officers even call him on it, but he seemed to have convinced them of his genuineness later.

Plus, his ship murdered the Excalibur and her whole crew, plus a lot of other crew in 3 other ships.

I could do this all day, but that last one, usually a Captain is liable for the actions of a ship whether he's in control or not.


I'm just wondering how much was really revealed afterwards to the crew? Well it's simple, the Captain's old girlfriend from a long time ago stole his body and wore him like a suit, like Henoch did to Spock. I guess they'd be ok with it.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

In Mirror, Mirror, Kirk didn't really get away with anything, In Whom Gods Destroy, he didn't even get to the ship, in What Are Little Girls Made Of? he stole the secret command files but no one was able to act on them.

The Enemy Within was the only time Kirk really "did" something, several somethings, assault, attempted assault, aggravated assault, and leaving crew in a hazardous environment, but they really were Kirk, at least a part of him. I'm sure with Dr. McCoy's medical logs and Mr. Spock and Mr. Scott's testimony there wouldn't be any trouble....

I could do this all day, but that last one, usually a Captain is liable for the actions of a ship whether he's in control or not.

Your point about the captain being liable for everything tallies with what I've read about cases in the U.S. Navy. In "Mirror, Mirror", the captain of a capital ship has to be dragged to the brig screaming. The Navy wouldn't let that go no matter what the excuse. He'd be relieved due to a loss of confidence in his ability to command. Same with Lester's "Kirk" behavior, and Evil Transporter Accident Kirk. "It may not be your fault, but it's our starship and we want another captain in that job."

There are even some cases where the Navy would relieve Kirk when it absolutely was his fault: "Space Seed" and "The Way to Eden." He did not take sufficient precautions to keep control of his ship. Starfleet is a great deal more understanding and forgiving than it probably ought to be.

 

[Phaser Two]

Kirk should have been relieved of command after "Space Seed" for sure. Inexcusable.

 

[johnnybear]

Imagine the Federation and Section 31 getting hold of the life entity swapping machine on Camus II!!! Look at the Klingon spies they could repatriate and continue spying with back on Q'Onos! or Romulus?
JB

 

[Qonundrum]

Kirk lets Khan read all sorts of classified material, despite his having been revived not too much earlier. Or, in more proper context: Classified, very tender, juicy and delicious material about how the ship's innards work! Was there nothing else about the 22nd/23rd century for Khan to read up on? It doesn't get much stupider than that... even season 3 can't compare and, you bet, I'll be heading there in a moment or two (wheeeeee!).

Season 1 couldn't make up its mind if the show took place 200 or 300 years later.

Spock seems quite emotive early on, despite seemingly proud when recognizing "Ah, yes. One of your Earth emotions!" to Kirk in "Where No Man Has Gone Before".

Overt sexism that seemed out of place, unless the show was being heavy in breaking the 4th wall. ("Turnabout Intruder" being one of the more... poignant examples of this.)

Scotty, having had a fall thanks to a female engineer, now is alleged to hate all women to the point of murder in "Wolf in the Fold" - largely a good story, but a couple rewrites would have made for a less risible allegation for Scotty, never mind how the incorporeal thing that was also Jack the Ripper can inhabit circuits with as much ease as taking over someone else's brain.

"Let that be Your Last Battlefield" has directional from a big distance and significant electrical discharge blasts coming from Charonians. That's borderline. Having biological-based shields that repel technological phaser blasts is risible, ditto for generating enough heat to risk melting the ship's fuselage yet everyone's standing a few mere feet from them and don't even break out in a sweat. Kirk and Spock also have dialogue lines reversed regarding not noticing who is black on the right side, Spock is not the type to miss out on something so patently obvious, though his failing to see the logic in why either Charonian would care is well within character. There's also a briefing room door stuck ajar. Now being a briefing room, wouldn't there be door sensors or a lock or something to alert relevant staff if it's opened or malfunctioning?

"Tomorrow is Yesterday" - after the itty bitty jet plane is crushed by the tractor beam, Spock suavely calls Kirk on the intercom to ask if the beam should be turned off.

"The Mark of Gideon" - No episode got any more contrived than this one. Transporter coordinate transposition explain the issue but is so badly done it's worthy of TNG season 1 where adults are dumbed down to make Wesley look like the genius. Why is Kirk going there? (Just pretend they want to set up a mining agreement for dilithium, it's by far the easiest miscue of the story to get around.) Reasons for the Gideons living forever are taken to illogical extremes and not because the planet is (giggle) "germ-free". (The script needed a second draft to get around questions that wouldn't be hard to think about for even the most casual viewer circa 1969 despite the strong basic subject matter involving overpopulation.) Some dialogue almost attacks what should be revered (life) but the episode just flounders, ditto for lack of birth control methods - this episode feels like an attack on fertility-based religions. Dialogue attributed to Kirk is so loosely worded that there's a quaint double entendre regarding him spreading his virus, one that the Gideons are likely unable to adapt to, to the outrageous Odona. "Death by STD". Again, this was 1969... and, honestly, if there's absolutely no place for people to wander around, how'd they get 400 meters x 100 meters for length and width to build the most impressive mock-up of a starship from a non-Federated world. Where'd they get such detail schematics from, anyway... Khan?! I could go on for ages ripping this one apart. Yeah, it's from season 3, a bottle episode, a genuinely interesting premise but too flawed and forced given the conflux of elements and sets a new level of stupid that even the most heavyhanded TNG couldn't come close to surpassing. Separate the duplicate mock-up and let it be Klingons capturing Kirk instead as they got some of the technical info in "Day of the Dove" and voila... a script rewrite and refining, even Kirk being stuck in a room under guard and told the issue without Odona wanting to shag him for deadly cooties (but being locked up and forced to have lab tests done might be a bit too gritty for 1969 television, despite "The Empath"), would have made this episode shine.

"The Empath" - the thinnest of substance - a boring torturefest episode that doesn't hold up, apart from a line by Kirk damning the species for pointless sadism toward the end. There seem more reasonable and rational tests for the aliens to use to see if Gem's people were worth saving, if I recall the episode correctly.

"The Lights of Zetar" - no defenses or shields, anyone is welcome to read up on whatever they can find. This part of the story approaches what can only be termed as "Khan on crack".

"Court Martial" - logs can be altered, the episode feels like the writer is consciously fighting the obvious way too hard too often.

"The Man Trap" - also contrives to get around beaming down some salt.

(Note: as with TNG and the others, I do rather enjoy most of the episodes I end up nitpicking, but the plot points still stick out so badly when, in some cases, they don't need to be - unless the show's production was in so much turmoil. (Stanley Adams definitely had some solid ideas that impress at times, but that script was much less than the sum of its parts.) One just has to roll with the episode, which for the most part helps.)

 

[Henoch]

"The Man Trap" - also contrives to get around beaming down some salt.

Chef refused to give up his limited spice supplies. He rules in his kitchen. BAM!

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Chef refused to give up his limited spice supplies. He rules in his kitchen. BAM!

 

[suarezguy]

The idea from "Assignment: Earth" that Starfleet could and did easily, routinely travel back in time just for direct historical research, somehow didn't consider it a real big problem that they could change the timeline.

 

[Mytran]

Perhaps they realised that their previous time travel adventures just resulted in causal loops and that actually changing the past is impossible? Kirk & Spock's dialogue at the end of A:E certainly supports the "it was always going to happen this way" attitude to temporal mechanics

 

[Henoch]

Perhaps they realised that their previous time travel adventures just resulted in causal loops and that actually changing the past is impossible? Kirk & Spock's dialogue at the end of A:E certainly supports the "it was always going to happen this way" attitude to temporal mechanics

Or the year or so of causal loops when they overshot their time target from TIY. "We better send them back to 1969 again and maybe they will hit their time mark better on the return trip."
[URL="https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/time-travel-and-its-consequences.298555/page-4#post-12859022"]Time Travel and its consequences[/URL]

 

[DanGussin]

"Friday's Child " - McCoy thinking it would be a good idea to wander down a mountainside, baby in his arms , into a battle with a phaser , bow and arrow, swords etc.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

All of "The Alternative Factor" and "And the Children Shall Lead". Two episodes I generally skip during my rewatches of TOS, which I rewatch a lot. A lot.

But what of Lazarus?

 

[johnnybear]

I never miss any episodes out of a rewatch, not even the dreaded Plato's Stepchildren!
JB

 

[Timo]

Kirk lets Khan read all sorts of classified material, despite his having been revived not too much earlier. Or, in more proper context: Classified, very tender, juicy and delicious material about how the ship's innards work!

This is a fan myth, though. What Khan is said to be reading is the "technical library" available through the terminal; if he's learning how transtators work, this may equate to state secrets in 1990s terms but is unlikely to do so in the 2260s. The bit about him reading actual field manuals or whatnot is just sexual banter from a later scene.

Spock seems quite emotive early on, despite seemingly proud when recognizing "Ah, yes. One of your Earth emotions!" to Kirk in "Where No Man Has Gone Before".

But Vulcans say they don't lie, which should already tell us enough about them. We never met one who wouldn't be doing stand-up when opening his or her lips.

Scotty, having had a fall thanks to a female engineer, now is alleged to hate all women to the point of murder in "Wolf in the Fold"

Except not. This "hatred" is mentioned by McCoy and Kirk while smiling and sharing a drink - it's part of a joke on the hopelessly romantic engineer's expense in the teaser. The "allegation" never (and I do mean never) arises when Scotty's possible guilt is being considered!

There's also a briefing room door stuck ajar. Now being a briefing room, wouldn't there be door sensors or a lock or something to alert relevant staff if it's opened or malfunctioning?

...Now being the forum to a propagandist meeting, surely the door would be configured to specifically invite eavesdropping and thus maximize if not attendance then at least impact? I always had a soft spot on this - future doors are supposed to be smarter than the people passing through them, and the ship strives to be user-friendly.

Also liked "Mark of Gideon" exactly for being so contrary to what we might expect...

(Note: as with TNG and the others, I do rather enjoy most of the episodes I end up nitpicking, but the plot points still stick out so badly when, in some cases, they don't need to be - unless the show's production was in so much turmoil. (Stanley Adams definitely had some solid ideas that impress at times, but that script was much less than the sum of its parts.) One just has to roll with the episode, which for the most part helps.)

After all these decades, I also tend to enjoy the nitpicking the most, because that's what endures. Weirdness, whether intentional or unintentional, is the reason Star Trek can be considered a scifi show rather than just an ultraconservative romp on the benefits of imperialism in spaaaaace...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Phaser Two]

"Friday's Child " - McCoy thinking it would be a good idea to wander down a mountainside, baby in his arms , into a battle with a phaser , bow and arrow, swords etc.

Interesting. I got the impression he didn't decide to show up until Scotty and the security team arrived.

 

[johnnybear]

Bones wasn't daft was he!
JB

 

[DanGussin]

Interesting. I got the impression he didn't decide to show up until Scotty and the security team arrived.

To me it has always seemed that the cave was not overly close to the pathway where the fight took place but further up the mountain. Watching Kirk and Spock when they set up the rockslide would seem to bear this out as they would not want to be too close to their hideout.

So McCoy would have needed to walk a reasonable distance already to have been able to pop out when Scotty showed up.

Of course it would make sense for McCoy to not want to get trapped in the cave if things did not go well and he might have been on the move all during the fight. And I am not sure but did he have his communicator with him? Two were used to create the rock slide but Bones would still have had his. Maybe he had already been contacted by Scotty and knew help was on the way.so he just kept his head down till it was safe. Or simply seen the landing party from his higher vantage point?