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Would you have preferred the conspiracy bugs (TNG s1) over the Dominion?
- Thread starter Ennex
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So the series as far as we're away is over and I, like many others, felt extremely satisfied with how Picard Series 3 ended (noting there's always room for nitpicks!).
The one thing I was hoping for though (pushed along by my own speculation during the trailer phases and subsequent YouTube videos) was the reintroduction of the bugs from the TNG season 1 penultimate episode 'Conspiracy'.
I'm sure most people are across it, but in summary, following a meeting with a fellow captain and the strange behavior of high-ranking officers leads the crew to uncover a conspiracy of senior Starfleet officers possessed by parasitic aliens who are preparing to invade the United Federation of Planets. The crew expose the plot and destroy the invaders but only after they are able to send a message into unknown space.
Personally, I feel the Borg were a little overdone (mostly because we'd seen them in s1 and s2). While I really liked how the Borg arc was wrapped up I do feel that the conspiracy bugs from TNG season 1 could have really created a compelling and tense story with a cloak and dagger dynamic, in particular on issues around who could the crew trust.
There were a lot of parallels between the Dominion and Borg arcs with what we saw on Conspiracy and I wanted to know everyone's thoughts on:
a) do you think the conspiracy bugs could have been an exciting alternative for the primary villain?; or
b) do you think they could have been a good alternative for the Dominion who could have ultimately been serving the Borg?
For me (A) is compelling but notwithstanding my point above it doesn't convey that sense of 'iconic' foe. While (B) I think would have worked quite well because the conspiracy bugs already had issues with the Federation, their back story was undefined so there was a lot of room to build on new ground and wrap-up a fairly loose thread, and their objectives align significantly with the Borg. This also works given they were originally intended as the main villain before budget reasons led to the writers creating the Borg instead. For example, "the Borg Queen weak and dying from the destruction of the transwarp conduit entered into an agreement with [conspiracy bugs] to destroy / absorb / assimilate the Federation".
Overall, looking at the trailers and what we saw from the dominion in this season, I feel like the bugs really would have suited the season particularly as it matches the compelling parts of we saw in the show, ie the changing faces of forces young after Jack Crusher and that they were looking for "peaceful coexistence" much like the Borg's "order to chaos". It doesn't all fit perfectly (e.g. detecting in transporters), but I like the idea of it!
What are your thoughts?
Picture from Conspiracy just because!
#/media/File%3ARemmicksParasite.jpg)
I was hoping that it was going to be the Pah Wraiths, and I thought for sure that the face coming out of Amanda Plummers hand was going to be Gul Dukat…
that was my only real disappointment, there was a lot of stuff in deep space nine that we’ve never heard anything about ever after the show ended. I am glad that changelings showed up at least…
We definitely need a follow up to DS9. It did the most worldbuilding. There's a reason no one's asking for the Kazon back
lol the Kazon, The only race that the Borg deliberately did not assimilate. Bfhahaha!!!
there was actually only one instance where I liked the appearance of the Kazon, in “living witness”, there was a Kazon ensign ha ha. I thought he looked good, wearing pseudo federation colors…
the Conspracy Bugs, though… i’d like to see those come back. I thought they were a little bit too easily defeated. That was the only episode of any Star Trek show that contained a viewer warning…
Lol, it might be because I never watched much Viyager but I can't say I'm too keen on most Delta Quadrant races returning
actually of all of the races they introduced I liked the Hirogen the most.
Them and 8472 are my favorite.
you mean species 857-6309?
that’s what I call them ha haI could never figure out how many legs they got, looks like 3…
Close enough. Nice punyou mean species 857-6309?
This. I would have been fine with the Changelings remaining the heavies and using the parasites as a form of control for over starfleet. The Borg have pretty much ran their course at this point.
the bugs basically were doing the same as the changelings, they could have extended the changelings influence, if needed. I didn’t see that they were needed though, changeling infiltration was so massive it even had Ro scared poopless…
Fair enough. I like the TNG/DS9 races the most (except the Betazoids)
As for the bugs, I'd be fine if they were brought back but as the ultimate for of Picard they don't really have enough thematic relevance IMO
Agreed. Because they dropped the ball on the bugs after the first season, they never got back to them at all, ever. You know what race would have had more relevance?
The Solanagen (spelling) based Tetryon subspace hooded claw aliens from TNG “Schisms”, I would love to find out more about those guys…
there was some connection to the caretaker of Voyager who was also Solanagen, The female caretaker appeared to be more like those clawed aliens, she only cared about her Ocompan test subjects, she would have, and could have, turned Voyager into a scattering of atoms. If the caretakers were part of that same race that we met in TNG, maybe Janeway had some positive effect. I dunno.
Yes. Why wouldn't the galactic crayfish just bog off after their first failed attempt? They're hard-shelled and persistent...
I know, they had to use the Borg because most casual viewers remembered them, and nobody remembered Voyager, so loosely copping the virus idea from the VOY Borg episodes and showing them succeeding is one of the better ways to have both the casuals and the invested fans via the best of both worlds*... not to mention trying to fix whatbatbleepnonsensetheydidtotheminseasonsoneandtwo... (not to mention, accomplish the payoff in just... one episode.)
And yet, a direct spinoff about the continuing adventures of one aspect OF an entire ensemble pretty much reeks of being prioritized for a vested audience (diehards and even casuals) first and embracing newbies second.
As much as I'd like to find other ways to support the sequel series building up on those forgotten monsters and, yes, it makes more sense to have used them instead of a bunch of visual cue callbacks that lead to a needless subversion, casual fans and even more generic people on the street will recognize "Borg", even if they hadn't seen previous seasons and only know by repute. Season 3 was an attempt to return the Borg to a sense of threat. I'd argue they more or less succeeded... Ironically, casuals and newbs would indeed be intrigued by the use of the pawn visage and how PIC could have really taken off with them, instead of returning to the Borg... again...
And yet it cannot be denied that the frigging Borg have become a crutch so _____** big....
That aside, there were some nifty uses in how the Borg managed to take over. Not a bad accomplishment when all is considered.
Also, the return of the Changelings, at least a splinter sect, was pretty nifty, and PIC season 3 does more with them than what DESCENT piddled about with regarding their Borg splinter and did nothing with it, which is a genuinely ____** shame. Not that it would take much, but PIC did a decent job when all is said and done. That includes some terminology that would be apocryphal if this were about the main sect of Changelings as they didn't have "brothers and sisters" and a few other nitpicks that even I can't be too bothered with.
So, all in all, Changelings + the galactic crawdads might have been best.
* snarf!!
** fill in the blank with twice as much profanity as seasons 1 and 2 combined and there's room for more pejorative adjectives to potentially use about the lazy gravitating back to the walking refrigerator radiators...
As for crawdads:
I know, they had to use the Borg because most casual viewers remembered them, and nobody remembered Voyager, so loosely copping the virus idea from the VOY Borg episodes and showing them succeeding is one of the better ways to have both the casuals and the invested fans via the best of both worlds*... not to mention trying to fix whatbatbleepnonsensetheydidtotheminseasonsoneandtwo... (not to mention, accomplish the payoff in just... one episode.)
And yet, a direct spinoff about the continuing adventures of one aspect OF an entire ensemble pretty much reeks of being prioritized for a vested audience (diehards and even casuals) first and embracing newbies second.
As much as I'd like to find other ways to support the sequel series building up on those forgotten monsters and, yes, it makes more sense to have used them instead of a bunch of visual cue callbacks that lead to a needless subversion, casual fans and even more generic people on the street will recognize "Borg", even if they hadn't seen previous seasons and only know by repute. Season 3 was an attempt to return the Borg to a sense of threat. I'd argue they more or less succeeded... Ironically, casuals and newbs would indeed be intrigued by the use of the pawn visage and how PIC could have really taken off with them, instead of returning to the Borg... again...
And yet it cannot be denied that the frigging Borg have become a crutch so _____** big....
That aside, there were some nifty uses in how the Borg managed to take over. Not a bad accomplishment when all is considered.
Also, the return of the Changelings, at least a splinter sect, was pretty nifty, and PIC season 3 does more with them than what DESCENT piddled about with regarding their Borg splinter and did nothing with it, which is a genuinely ____** shame. Not that it would take much, but PIC did a decent job when all is said and done. That includes some terminology that would be apocryphal if this were about the main sect of Changelings as they didn't have "brothers and sisters" and a few other nitpicks that even I can't be too bothered with.
So, all in all, Changelings + the galactic crawdads might have been best.
* snarf!!
** fill in the blank with twice as much profanity as seasons 1 and 2 combined and there's room for more pejorative adjectives to potentially use about the lazy gravitating back to the walking refrigerator radiators...
As for crawdads:
No. A splinter group of Changelings was the better idea, as a followup to the Dominion War was needed. It would have been more interesting if they were led by Kira instead of Vadic, but I get the feeling the fandom wouldn’t have gone for that even if Kira switched sides at the end. So Vadic, while not my most favourite villain, worked to.
However, it would have made for a good twist if the conspiracy bugs were revealed to have been working their own takeover angle on Frontier Day separate from the Changelings & the Borg.
I too figured the face would have been Pah Wraith possessed Dukat. Or even Armus in an assimilation gone very wrong situation from the Changelings.
However, it would have made for a good twist if the conspiracy bugs were revealed to have been working their own takeover angle on Frontier Day separate from the Changelings & the Borg.
I too figured the face would have been Pah Wraith possessed Dukat. Or even Armus in an assimilation gone very wrong situation from the Changelings.
I think remnants of the Dominion would have been quite enough. I wasn't thrilled to see the Borg or the Borg Queen again, especially after both had been tied off in Season 2. I mean, I didn't really enjoy Season 2, but pushing the Borg into a new place was one of the worthier things that it achieved.
Always thought the bugs were only a part of a bug society, like what was shown was an "Infiltrator" bug, but there are other bug species, or they were artificially engineered and sent as a first wave. Maybe have turned admirals, politictians welcome a new species into the federation, but have them be the bad guys. so somewhat like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
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