Would you have helped out?

[Franklin]

Re: Would you of helped out?

To avoid the student having to suffer the indignity of an accident in the hallway, I would've helped him into the restroom, and into a stall, but after that, there is a question of the dignity of both people involved here. He's probably embarrassed, and I'm in a very awkward situation. So, once the person is seated and can relieve himself, it's time for experts to take over.
I would tell the person to stay seated in the stall and wait while I went to find the appropriate care-giver, either the nurse or a person responsible for the disabled students, to render further assistance.
Then, I would find out why this student was allowed to be left alone and put into a situation like this in the first place if he can't go to the restroom by himself. That shouldn't happen.

 

[Spot's Meow]

Re: Would you of helped out?

I'm not sure what I would have done. I'm a weakling so I doubt I could really have been much assistance anyway, and it wouldn't really have been very safe. I would most likely say no, but offer to find someone who can help. That would take away some of their embarassment in having to ask more random strangers for help. Especially if they have speech difficulties and have to repeat themselves to be understood. If I was near a class I just got out of, for instance, I would ask the professor if he knows someone I might contact or ask one of the older students if they have any experience in this matter. If we were the only two people around or no one was willing to help then I would probably concede, but let them know my concerns about my strength or safety.

 

[JiNX-01]

Re: Would you of helped out?

If he had an urgent need to use the bathroom, and I was the only one around, yes, I would have helped him. I used to work as a nurse's aide, so it wouldn't have been a big deal for me.

 

[JiNX-01]

Re: Would you of helped out?

^Thank you. The Grammar Nazi in me was about to have a stroke.

I used to be a copy editor, but since being laid off my Grammar Nazi has settled down. Which is why I was able to resist the urge to correct him.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Re: Would you of helped out?

I was trained as a PCA for my mother and I was uncomfortable helping her out some of the time. That said I would have helped.

 

[Scout101]

Re: Would you of helped out?

Call me an asshole, but I'd have probably passed on that one. Depends on how well you know him, etc, but if a fairly random person asked, and I wasn't comfortable with him on at least a friend basis, that's a pretty uncomfortable request.

Especially if it was a little vague about specifically what he needed help with.

I wouldn't have just ignored him, but it feels like I probably would have come up with an excuse for why I was in a hurry to go somewhere else. I'd have asked if I could help him find someone appropriate to help with, but it would have made me uncomfortable enough that I wouldn't stick around long after i tried to get him better help.

Certainly not blaming him for his problems, and certainly the need to go to the bathroom can sneak up on you, but if you have that sort of problem and know you're going to need help, that's certainly something you have to plan for, so you know you have someone there to help out that's familiar/comfortable with the situation...

 

[TerokNor]

Re: Would you of helped out?

Of course I would have helped! Either with what he needed or if I could not have done that (because he would have needed a transfer or something and I would not have felt up for it or whatever) I would have helped him to find someone to help him.

TerokNor

 

[Lookingglassman]

I would do it.

 

[thestrangequark]

Re: Would you of helped out?

To avoid the student having to suffer the indignity of an accident in the hallway, I would've helped him into the restroom, and into a stall, but after that, there is a question of the dignity of both people involved here.

Which is the more dignified behavior: aiding a person who is physically incapable on his own, despite one's own embarrassment, or drawing an arbitrary line of what degree of aid is renderable before polite society feels violated? Which is the more dignified behavior, assuming that a stranger will be be willing to help or assuming that he'll consider himself too dignified to do so?

In other words, I believe that in this situation wiping the butt of the disabled individual is a hell of a lot more dignified than not. I don't think it'd be the highlight of my day, but I'd help in any way I could.

As to the attitude that we ought to "let nature take its course," I personally find that totally repugnant. I was discussing the progress in nueroprosthetics with my roommate the other day, and she said that it freaked her out because if a person is so disabled that he needs a computer chip implanted in his brain to control a cursor, then it's time to just give up. When I pointed out to her that without the artificial intervention of daily insulin injections, I would have died at the age of 12, she said, "But you're still a contributing member of society." My questions to her, and to anyone who thinks that we should just "let nature take it's course," when it comes to the disabled are, what gives you the right to assign worth to another person's life? What gives you the right to choose for someone else when living is no longer "really" living?

The only people who have any right to decide when quality of life is compromised enough to let someone pass on is the individual him or herself and his or her loved ones.

 

[Neutral Zone]

Re: Would you of helped out?

I would have done it. Many years ago I worked with a disabled person for six months who needed assistance in most things. It felt odd at first but I remembered at least I didn,t need help but maybe one day I might. But it is also understandable for those who would find it easier to say 'no', what you have to remember ist thatthey don't want to ask either and would rather do things on their own, after all it si a little personal and damned embarressing to ask another male to take you to the toilet.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Re: Would you of helped out?

Pushing someone to a bathroom door is acceptable, and that's as far as I'd go, and I'd be upfront about that fact.

That's about what I'd do. I'd be willing to wheel someone into the bathroom and into the stall, but probably not much further unless I knew them well (at my last job, that was the policy, they actually outlined how much help was appropriate for a customer in a similar situation).

What would I do if asked? First I'd ask what it involved. If I were uncomfortable, I would say so.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: Would you of helped out?

I'm surprised so many people are very uncomfortable about possibly witnessing/assisting in someone going to the toilet. It's not like you don't do this yourself every day, ie it's not like being squicked out over watching heart surgery.

As to "letting nature take its course" what the hell for? We have the brains to work around nature's frailties, we are not animals going off to die when we become a burden to the pack.

 

[Amaris]

Re: Would you of helped out?

I'm surprised so many people are very uncomfortable about possibly witnessing/assisting in someone going to the toilet. It's not like you don't do this yourself every day, ie it's not like being squicked out over watching heart surgery.

As to "letting nature take its course" what the hell for? We have the brains to work around nature's frailties, we are not animals going off to die when we become a burden to the pack.

Agreed. If we should let nature take it's course, I feel terrible for the future of Alzheimer's research.

 

[AriesIV]

Best way I could have helped in this situation would be to get someone more qualified than I on the case.

 

[trampledamage]

Re: Would you of helped out?

So if you got in a car wreck and found you were paralyzed--even "just" from the waist down, you'd value your life less?

I would value my life the same, but being paralyzed would be my problem, and I'd deal with it as best I could. I wouldn't choose to burden others with bathroom tasks.

Ah, okay, now I understand your point of view. But surely simply because you wouldn't choose to burden others, doesn't mean everyone else has to follow your standards.

I mean, I feel uncomfortable asking people for anything - my husband had to push me forwards to get me to ask for a seat on a crowded train when I was very pregnant and about to faint. But I don't hold it against other people who are more open about asking for help.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: Would you of helped out?

Well lets say you cannot get to the toilet yourself and the arrangements you have made (carer for instance) have suddenly fallen through. You HAVE to go to the toilet but you do not believe in burdening others.. so what happens? If you piss yourself or crap your pants you've just caused more of a burden.

 

[ladyheather69]

Re: Would you of helped out?

No, I wouldn't have helped out. I wouldn't have been comfortable due to safety factors for both parties involved, and I don't have the appropriate training for something other than holding someone's jacket while they relieve themselves.
I do work in a middle school, and we have disabled students. However, everyone has or has access to a walkie talkie. If this person had asked for my help, I would have told them no and explained why, but I would also have gotten help via the walkie.

And I agree with Franklin--why was this person asking someone he was unfamiliar with for help using the facilities? If he needs assistance there should have been someone around to help.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Would you of helped out?

As to the attitude that we ought to "let nature take its course," I personally find that totally repugnant. I was discussing the progress in nueroprosthetics with my roommate the other day, and she said that it freaked her out because if a person is so disabled that he needs a computer chip implanted in his brain to control a cursor, then it's time to just give up. When I pointed out to her that without the artificial intervention of daily insulin injections, I would have died at the age of 12, she said, "But you're still a contributing member of society." My questions to her, and to anyone who thinks that we should just "let nature take it's course," when it comes to the disabled are, what gives you the right to assign worth to another person's life? What gives you the right to choose for someone else when living is no longer "really" living?

The only people who have any right to decide when quality of life is compromised enough to let someone pass on is the individual him or herself and his or her loved ones.

Yeah. I'd just dare her to make that remark to Stephen Hawking. No doubt there'd be TONS of his colleagues lining up to punch her in the face for the stupidity of that remark.

That attitude--where some life is defined as "life unworthy of life"...well, it's deeply disturbing. For us to have that power over others does not lead down a good path at all, in terms of what we could become willing to do to each other. People like this guy are NOT helping, at all, in creating a culture that respects the dignity of all life.


Oh, and teacake...please remember that not everyone's reasons for saying "no" are the same. I would not be squicked...I just think I would not be physically capable of supporting someone without it being dangerous to one or both of us. I think that's a perfectly legitimate reason. But if that is the reason, I think that it should be explained honestly and without hiding the truth. And then I would go to help find this hypothetical individual more capable assistance.

 

[thestrangequark]

Re: Would you of helped out?

^I referenced Hawking when I was making my case to my roommate but she didn't know who he was. At that point I gave up.

 

[Franklin]

Re: Would you of helped out?

To avoid the student having to suffer the indignity of an accident in the hallway, I would've helped him into the restroom, and into a stall, but after that, there is a question of the dignity of both people involved here.

Which is the more dignified behavior: aiding a person who is physically incapable on his own, despite one's own embarrassment, or drawing an arbitrary line of what degree of aid is renderable before polite society feels violated? Which is the more dignified behavior, assuming that a stranger will be be willing to help or assuming that he'll consider himself too dignified to do so?

In other words, I believe that in this situation wiping the butt of the disabled individual is a hell of a lot more dignified than not. I don't think it'd be the highlight of my day, but I'd help in any way I could.

This isn't like rendering life-saving aid or even first aid. In that case, one gets ones hands dirty if need be, so to speak.

The case in question is polite society, whether the person is disabled or not. This is a social situation with strong social and cultural boundaries being crossed, whether the person is disabled or not. That's what makes it such a quandary.

Besides my dignity (what's left of it after 50 years) I'm sure the disabled person wouldn't feel too good about sitting there having a total stranger wipe his butt if it came to it, either. The indignity and embarrassment is on both sides.

That's why I said I would at least get the person to the toilet, and even on the toilet if too much aid wasn't required. But after that, I'd tell the person I'm going to find someone qualified to deal with it from there on. A nurse. Someone trained to provide disability services. Someone whose presence makes the situation clinical and not social. Someone where there is no embarrassment or loss of dignity for anyone involved. If I end up wiping that person's butt, I'm going to feel worse for him than I will for myself.