Would we have watched Voyager if they HADN'T gotten Caretaken?

[RoJoHen]

Well, that's what writing is for.

 

[kirkfan]

Well, that's what writing is for.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't have a good reason for your premise.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Well, that's what writing is for.

Seeing how poor the writing got on VOY I think you're asking a little too much of it.

 

[kirkfan]

Well, that's what writing is for.

Seeing how poor the writing got on VOY I think you're asking a little too much of it.

No argument there.

 

[Lynx]

What really made Voyager special was the premise about a ship with a mixed Starfleet and Maquis crew stranded 75 000 light years from home. Without it, I doubt that Voyager would have been as good as it actually was, despite erratic writing.

I don't understand why some posters wanted more conflict between the Starfleet and Maquis crew. Just look at the horrible "Stargate Universe" with its constand bickering and arguing between people and factions to see how blessed we are that we didn't have to stand that on Voyager.

 

[RoJoHen]

I didn't necessarily require more conflict, per se, but after a few episodes the Maquis crew may as well have just been Voyager crew. There was no narrative reason to have two crews when you're just going to ignore the fact that they are, in fact, two crews.

And what if you weren't familiar with DS9? Voyager barely even gave us an explanation about who the Maquis were.

I mean, honestly, the pilot could have been "Voyager investigates a comet and gets sucked into the Delta Quadrant. With her first officer and chief engineer dead, Commander Chakotay and B'Elanna Torres are promoted to take their place."

In the grand scheme of things, it would have barely changed anything.

 

[kirkfan]

I didn't necessarily require more conflict, per se, but after a few episodes the Maquis crew may as well have just been Voyager crew. There was no narrative reason to have two crews when you're just going to ignore the fact that they are, in fact, two crews.

And what if you weren't familiar with DS9? Voyager barely even gave us an explanation about who the Maquis were.

I mean, honestly, the pilot could have been "Voyager investigates a comet and gets sucked into the Delta Quadrant. With her first officer and chief engineer dead, Commander Chakotay and B'Elanna Torres are promoted to take their place."

In the grand scheme of things, it would have barely changed anything.

If not for Learning Curve, there would be hardly any acknowledging of the Maquis on board in the first season.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

What really made Voyager special was the premise about a ship with a mixed Starfleet and Maquis crew stranded 75 000 light years from home. Without it, I doubt that Voyager would have been as good as it actually was, despite erratic writing.

I don't understand why some posters wanted more conflict between the Starfleet and Maquis crew. Just look at the horrible "Stargate Universe" with its constand bickering and arguing between people and factions to see how blessed we are that we didn't have to stand that on Voyager.

We don't want Stargate Universe level bickering, we want a middle ground.

If Voyager is 0 and Stargate Universe is 100, I would have dialed it to 30 or 40.

I would have set it up so there are lots of Maquis who are rumbling about going off on their own or even talking about a mutiny, but Chakotay is the voice of reason who calmed them down and kept them in line, but also insisted on their interests as well. They kind of did that in season one, but then they all conformed completely, even ideologically.

 

[kirkfan]

What really made Voyager special was the premise about a ship with a mixed Starfleet and Maquis crew stranded 75 000 light years from home. Without it, I doubt that Voyager would have been as good as it actually was, despite erratic writing.

I don't understand why some posters wanted more conflict between the Starfleet and Maquis crew. Just look at the horrible "Stargate Universe" with its constand bickering and arguing between people and factions to see how blessed we are that we didn't have to stand that on Voyager.

We don't want Stargate Universe level bickering, we want a middle ground.

If Voyager is 0 and Stargate Universe is 100, I would have dialed it to 30 or 40.

I would have set it up so there are lots of Maquis who are rumbling about going off on their own or even talking about a mutiny, but Chakotay is the voice of reason who calmed them down and kept them in line, but also insisted on their interests as well. They kind of did that in season one, but then they all conformed completely, even ideologically.

Paradoxically, it's towards the end of the series with episodes like nothing human that the maquis starts voicing its differences.

 

[Anwar]

Problem was, they did that episode where they met the humans transplanted from Earth like Amelia Earhart and Janeway told them that if they wanted to stay they could.

Hardly anyone left, so anyone who stayed was there by choice and had no right to complain.

 

[kirkfan]

Problem was, they did that episode where they met the humans transplanted from Earth like Amelia Earhart and Janeway told them that if they wanted to stay they could.

Hardly anyone left, so anyone who stayed was there by choice and had no right to complain.

If I remember correctly, no one left. The cargo hold where they were supposed to gather was empty of people.

Maybe because they knew that Janeway was planning to seal the doors and gas the ones that showed up...

 

[hux]

Being on this forum is like being stuck in a conversational time loop where the same crap gets discussed over and over.....it provides me with a profound sense of comfort

Anyway

Far more unrealistic than people not wanting to stay was the 37's not wanting to leave. Earhart is an adventurer who was notorious for taking risks and looking for excitement. Voyager has us believe that she's given up on all that and decided to stay on a planet and push out babies. She was adventurous, a risk taker, a thrill seeker and she was circumnavigating the globe then......poof......she wakes up in the future.

......And has suddenly decided to become someone who wants to settle down on a planet and make a nice cosy home

Go explore the universe and visit a potential future Earth that is beyond your comprehension......nah, I'll stay here and make some lovely home made soup

Bye then Kath

 

[RoJoHen]

Being on this forum is like being stuck in a conversational time loop where the same crap gets discussed over and over.....it provides me with a profound sense of comfort

Well, the show has been off the air for 14 years. There's only so much new stuff to talk about.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Problem was, they did that episode where they met the humans transplanted from Earth like Amelia Earhart and Janeway told them that if they wanted to stay they could.

Hardly anyone left, so anyone who stayed was there by choice and had no right to complain.

I don't agree with that logic. "Give up all hope of seeing your home again tomorrow" or "Absolutely conform to a military you didn't enlist in" is a false imperative. Neelix was expected to act within the rules, but not to conform absolutely, and that shouldn't have been expected of the Maquis either.

 

[kirkfan]

Being on this forum is like being stuck in a conversational time loop where the same crap gets discussed over and over.....it provides me with a profound sense of comfort

Anyway

Far more unrealistic than people not wanting to stay was the 37's not wanting to leave. Earhart is an adventurer who was notorious for taking risks and looking for excitement. Voyager has us believe that she's given up on all that and decided to stay on a planet and push out babies. She was adventurous, a risk taker, a thrill seeker and she was circumnavigating the globe then......poof......she wakes up in the future.

......And has suddenly decided to become someone who wants to settle down on a planet and make a nice cosy home

Go explore the universe and visit a potential future Earth that is beyond your comprehension......nah, I'll stay here and make some lovely home made soup

Bye then Kath

I agree that part was just stupid. But given the writer's MO, it was either that or make her die. I don't know, maybe shot by accident by the guy she was with for dramatic effect.

 

[kirkfan]

Problem was, they did that episode where they met the humans transplanted from Earth like Amelia Earhart and Janeway told them that if they wanted to stay they could.

Hardly anyone left, so anyone who stayed was there by choice and had no right to complain.

I don't agree with that logic. "Give up all hope of seeing your home again tomorrow" or "Absolutely conform to a military you didn't enlist in" is a false imperative. Neelix was expected to act within the rules, but not to conform absolutely, and that shouldn't have been expected of the Maquis either.

Neelix started his "relationship" with Janeway by lying to her and tricking her and her staff into going in a dangerous situation just to free his girlfriend under false pretenses and for that he's quickly rewarded with a plum function on the ship. I don't know. Some things just don't make a lot of sense. Also note that everyone that hates Paris' guts in the first episode... dies. I suspect foul play.

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

IMO Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis got that right by not denying the multiple shows were all co-existing in different places of the same universe in their various plots, freely referencing and crossing over plots, characters and backstories.

Mark

This kind of intrigues me, the separate Trek shows working in a more open context with each other.

Would Voyager need to be airing almost simultaneously with other series or just 'referencing' them would be enough?

 

[Lance]

The central premise of Voyager was to put two diverse crews (and then some) and cut them off from all that was familiar to them, and set them on a journey home. Whether that was successful or not is one thing, but that was the idea.

But far earlier than that, there was originally talk of just prolonging TNG into season eight and beyond; if Patrick Stewart wasn't continuing, to place Riker in charge, get a bunch of new crew, and keep on truckin' on the Enterprise-D.

So let's split the difference here. What if Berman & Piller & Taylor had decided to do with a new ship and wholly Starfleet crew and keep them doing along various Alpha Quadrant adventures? Heck, what if we got a show with the original Voyager crew, including Commander Cavit, Dr. Fitzgerald, Lt. Stadi, and some un-named Chief Engineer?

I think it could have been fine keeping it local. There would be lots of potential to interact with TNG and DS9 crews, plus we'd develop the AQ while still having both good and mediocre new worlds and new civilizations to bump into. Post-First Contact, the Borg would surely be brought back into it as well.

So would things have been that different? Based on how Voyager turned out, I don't think it would have. Your thoughts?

Mark

I don't think Voyager would be that different.

Deep Space Nine, on the other hand, would never have developed the Dominion Arc... which was conceived primarily because, by DS9 showrunner Ira Behr's own admission, they knew with Voyager going off to the DQ, then the AQ was now fair game for change.

If they had two cocurrent shows both taking place in the AQ, chances are neither of them would develop as dynamically as they did, because both would need to not change things up too much for the other one to keep up with developments.

As it is, VOY only got Dear John letters from the AQ during the 'Dominion years', and by the time we started seeing more stories set there or whatever, DS9 was over and the AQ was (basically) back to it's old pre-DS9 self in time for all those Barclay episodes to come along.

Reflecting on this, I think we got the better deal.

EDIT: Oh, this so very much:

The thing is, most of the time in VOY we got exactly what we would have gotten if they'd been in the Alpha Quadrant anyway.

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

It could've allowed the war to be even larger and on a grander scale, with crossover episodes between DS9 and VOY.

And I would have left the series when it happened.

Then after the war ended and DS9 finished the crew could've been reassigned to relief and reconstruction work in Cardassian space.

It is doubtful in the extreme I would have returned for this either.

Character work could also have been explored differently.

It is the character work explored like it is that I am drawn to, has my admiration.

(thereby removing the dull as dishwater Kim)

<sigh> This character is as dull as dishwater to you, and others. This character is interesting and an integral necessary part of the dynamic to me and others.

EMH only as a recurring character. No Neelix, Kes (unfortunately), or Seven.

Well, there it is. I admire your clearly well thought out ideas of where and how Voyager could improve to better serve your tastes and what you think it needed under the OP scenario. And clearly I just don't relate.

If Voyager had been that show I am reasonably sure I would watched it and have contentedly dropped it, never to return.

Okay, I may have made a blunder here, being in the Voyager forum and all. I may have stumbled into a thread with people who do not like Voyager the way it is and are discussing ways to have made it likable for their vision of Trek.

Indeed, fair enough and my bad. Peace out!

 

[MacLeod]

Audiances are a fickly bunch and everyone can't be pleased all of the time. Some poeple love for VOY for what it was others are dissapointed with it because of the way it was. No matter what you do you are going to have critiims from some pepole.

I could say that characters such as Chakotay and Kim were under developed, and they focused too much at times on chracters like Janeway, Seven and the EMH. That they virtually abandoned the resource scarce premise they themsleves drew our attention to several times such as no back-up for the EMH and no way to replace Photon torpedeos except when the plot needed them to either forgot about it or remember it. That they could even keep track of how many crew members they had. No whilst these things don't matter to the average viewer and/or some portion of the core audiance for others it shows a degree that the writers simply didn't care so why should we as the audiance.